Lit Books The Third Canon Thrawn Trilogy

You’ve got to remember, this isn’t like, say, George RR Martin adding five or six new plot points into his new novels when he should be bringing it to a close. In that instance, he owns Westeros and that world, he can take the story wherever he wants.

Zahn’s working in a shared universe that has oversight from Lucasfilm, they can and have made him alter things in the past. If his books didn’t wrap things up, they would have made him go back and do it if it was something they were concerned about.

 

I wonder if Zahn would be game to edit/adapt Heir to the Empire/Dark Force Rising/Last Command into modern canon continuity.

What could they salvage? What has to go? What could be changed?

 

The thing is there isn't all that much to be concerned about, the Grysk exist in an arbitrarily remote part of the galaxy that could be used for future plotlines or easily written out with little to no issues to the broader universe. The Grysk in fact serve as the "ominous UR threat that could threaten the Galaxy" in a timeline where we already know that in the future that role will be taken by the FO. Worst comes to worst you can add them to the list of FO UR conquests that theoretically should be big but which is currently pretty empty, or they can be the center of a future Nagai or Tof-like incursion. Or resolved in a chiss-focused series that doesnt have Thrawn.

Grysk really arent that much of a bigger hanging thread than the Sovereign Latitudes of Maracavanya, or the off-screen collapse of Hutt Space during the timejump between trilogies, or the offhandedly mentioned Neo-Separatist union and the other one, or the fate of Rae Sloane... or the fate of Qira, or Lando and Luke seeking Exegol before losing the trail on Pasanna.

Shooting blanks into a 30 year gap as loose threads that authors can pick at in the future is not unusual behavior and there are many hints dropped that the FO might have either incorporated, annexed, conquered, genocided, or allied the Grysk, if anything Grysk and Thrawn fans are eating good compared to plenty of the others I've mentioned.

 

Seeing as the Mandoverse is using Thrawn set around the same time period as the Legends Thrawn Trilogy, featuring Thrawn returning after being off elsewhere... I doubt Lucasfilm is even considering it.

 

I am not expecting the Grysk to show up in anything outside Zahn books any time soon - I think if they were going to be the big bads of NJO or the Mando story, we would have gotten them seeded in more stories, but it has just been Zahn from what I can remember.

And given how many years it was before we got a single, small reference to one of the three other post-imperial governments, I can see that dangling for a while if Zahn doesn't revolve it himself. So I hope he gets the chance to.

Well, I know he wrote the ascendancy trilogy in mind with the idea that it is the backstory of both versions of Thrawn.

Still, hard to imagine how much the Heir trilogy would have to be edited to fit into the new canon, especially with Thrawn being a major show character. And the guy who killed Thrawn in the books already being dead. And Ben's differences from Jaina and Jacen. And how Bad Batch used Tantis.

...I am sure team OneCanon is up for it though.

 

I think we should consider the New Republic movie as an inspiration of the Thrawn Trilogy and not as a direct adaptation the only thing similar between the Mandoverse and the EU is that Thrawn was a Villain during the New Republic era if Jorus C'baoth or Mara Jade does not appear then it is not an adaptation of the Thrawn Trilogy it is just an inspiration instead of Mara you will have Ahsoka and other Jedi characters maybe Shin Hati will have a role similar to Mara Jade maybe Thrawn will live longer in this continuity than in the EU

 

I don’t think anyone (with any sense) would expect them to be the next Yuuzhan Vong given their usage and depiction in the books. And I think it should’ve been plain to anyone who saw Rebels or Ahsoka that the direction they’re taking with Thrawn is HttE.

But on the flip side, the Grysk are the villains of five canon novels, so that does give them a bit more weight than the typical discarded subplots and factions from Aftermath or the like. It feels a bit more tangible and real to me than the New Seperatist Union whole existence is merely mentioned and never expounded upon in a meaningful way.

It’s....almost as if Lucasfilm should be letting Zahn write more...

 

I read the topic title totally wrong...

At first I wondered "What is 'Third Canon'? I only know Legends EU, Disney Canon and OneCanon...



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LEGO

 

Ha! Certainly can't argue with any of that. Right you are.

The canon of OtherSpace of course.

.....yeah, that is pretty much it.

 

Per Zahn at DragonCon:

-He claims Marvel told him that when they have an opening in publishing they might give him and Jody Houser another 4 issues to finish Thrawn Alliances, and potentially the rest of the books in future minis.
(I’m very sceptical, but whatever you say Tim.)

-Reiterated he has plans for a Peridea Exile trilogy with Thrawn, Ezra, Enoch and the Great Mothers. (Filoni explained to him what some of the relationships are with the new characters.)

-Reiterated again that he also wants to do a Thrawnless Chiss/Grysk trilogy about Eli Vanto, Faro, Ar’alani, and basically the entire Chiss and Imperial cast he set in the 6 canon books.

-Defended Rebels and Ahsoka’s depiction of Thrawn, said that Thrawn isn’t sadistic, but is brutal. Cited Mr Sumar’s death in Rebels as in-character.

-Joked (?) that he hopes Lucasfilm get back to him soon, because he’s getting older and he wants to get onto these ideas before he gets too old.

 

It also occurs to me that the Fantasy Flight Games RPG might also be considered a third canon, with a rather unique blend of late legends and early Disney canon.

Yeah, I am not getting my hopes up, but that would be great if it was true.

Oh, interesting. I had no idea Filoni kept him in the loop on such things, or shared with anyone outside of the show crew really.

Hmmm...wonder when exactly this would be set. Particularly in the imperial characters get involved because the Empire has a lot on its plate after Yavin.

Neat. I know a lot of the fans of the newer Thrawn books are quick to say that Filoni misunderstands and villainizes the character, but I always felt it was in line with Thrawn. Even in the Ascendancy prequel trilogy, he does some pretty ruthless things when he needs to, particularly when he is trying to manipulate other species into being his allies -

Spoiler

getting the Vaks to join him against the Nikradun by deliberately engineering a situation where the Nikradun kill some Vaks. Yeah probably worked out better for everyone in the long run, but still faking distress to get the people trying to help you killed for political/military advantage is pretty stone cold.

Yeah...that is depressing but undeniable. Not like it is quick and easy to pump out six books after all.

 

It sounds like Filoni gives him certain details, but never the full picture. He told Zahn back in 2015 that Thrawn would survive Rebels, and gave him the scripts for Season 3 and some of Season 4, but didn’t tell him about the Purgil or the specifics of the finale.

I made a tally a while ago about every bad thing Thrawn does across the 6 novels. There are absolutely some cold hearted moments in those books that certain portions of the fandom overlook in their lionisation of the character. Especially in the Lesser Evil when we get POV characters actively commenting on it.

 

It's also not like Thrawn is a saint in the other seven legends books he appears in either. Killing bridge officers for minor offenses to encourage crew discipline isn't the action of a "good" guy. You also don't get to be one of five non-humans in the xenophobic Imperial Navy or a Grand Admiral (and Warlord) in Palpatine’s New Order by having morals...

 

There’s a school of thought among some fans that canon Thrawn is drastically different character than the Legends Thrawn, and that the canon version is a hero. I disagree with that notion pretty thoroughly.

 

I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on that, @SyndicThrass. In recent years, I've found myself looking at canon Thrawn from a less critical viewpoint and I'm curious to hear your view.

 

I think with the context the Ascendancy Trilogy provides, I view Thrawn as a tragic villain, somewhat akin to Vader or Dooku.

We see that the Chiss themselves are just people like any other. They’re isolationist and they have their unique family set ups, but mostly they’re just people. Thrawn’s an irregularity, his intelligence and the way his mind works is very specifically something unique to him, and there’s a slight messianic element to it (especially in Chaos Rising). But it’s shown that Thrawn’s difference can somewhat be read as neurodivergence and that’s plainly isolated him from others. He very specifically admits to Ar’alani that despite wanting connection, he struggles to see people as people and not as data to be utilised.

Couple that with the significant traumas he’s experienced, the loss of his sister, the death of Thrass (one of the few figures in his life who he seemed to be able to connect with in a meaningful way),and the overall militaristic nature of the Ascendancy and the constant and horrifying dangers of the Unknown Regions…it’s basically a perfect storm that’s set Thrawn down a path where he’s kind of devoted himself wholly to what he perceives as the greater good.

He started out well meaning. He wants to do good, and seems to have a notion of genuinely wanting harmony and limiting despair in a way that the Sith don’t, but he’s a broken man, essentially, whose given up any hope of personhood and committed fully to protection of the Chiss. That’s taken him to the Empire, which has only hastened his fall into cold utilitarianism.

Its not perfect, but I think if you read the 6 canon novels (and Outbound Flight somewhere in there) and then original Heir to the Empire trilogy you essentially get the story of an extraordinary and well intentioned man who was ultimately destroyed by his own intelligence who did a lot of harm before his end.

 

Correct me if I am wrong, but I do recall Zahn mentions he sees canon and legends Thrawn as the same character, and ignores the canon split in his work as much as possible and includes many references to legends works in his canon ones - now while obviously there are some bits that are incompatible, like the entire Lothal exile thing and his legends activities in that time frame, but I at least get the impression that the Ascendancy trilogy is the backstory for both versions of the character, and that both versions follow similar arcs of booking increasingly ruthless as a result of his service to the empire.

 

Yeah, he’s stated a few times that he doesn’t make much distinction between Legends and canon. And he’s even suggested possible ways to reconcile differences, such as Rukh being a moniker shared by multiple Noghri instead of a given name to one individual.

 

I also just assumed Rukh didn't die on Lothal when I watched the episode, and that he got picked up by Pelleon.

If he writes his hoped for Peridea Exile Trilogy, with his view on Thrawn in mind, it will be interesting to see if he tries to reconcile his UR activities with his GFFFA activities.