Senate The UK Politics discussion

True but thankfully Reform are eating themselves right now and the Torys are led by Badenoch

I still think that Labour are a better option than both those parties even under Starmer and there's still 4 years for them to turn it around but, MY GOD the series of missteps they're taking on the Homefront when they've been so good over Ukraine recently is just bizarre.

 

They seem to be operating on Mandelson's line - who else are people going to vote for? That's not a sound basis for politics, no matter how good it looks to political eyes. They will have lost future votes this last week.

 

Last year, that was reasonably fair. In all honesty, Mandelson should be no where near any form of power as he's a poisonous entity. Essentially the Labour version of Cummings

They'll be working on the basis they can win most of the lost votes back and with 4 years to go, they could do so provided they make no more unenforced errors. I have no doubt they'll continue to mess up

 

On this one, I doubt any of these voters are returning to Labour.

Although at this point about the only party perhaps not signed up to screw-the-old-and-the-disabled is the Greens.

 

You'd be surprised, as long as we have FPTP, people will rail against >>Insert political party here<< but when push comes to shove will vote for them again.

Floating voters maybe, but, if the welfare issue is resolved with a U-turn and minimal impact, people will move on as "they're alright". Unfortunately, too many people while voting against their self interest at the same time vote for what they think is in their self interest.

I've not got a debilitating illness or injury and I have a well paying job. Therefore I don't want to see my taxes increase and why should any tax I pay support those malingerers who aren't really ill. - Probably leans reform or Tory and ignores that Labour/Lib Dem/Green would look to bring in laws (typically) that strengthen support should the worst happen and you end up ill or lose your well paying job.

Labours gambit now is that people will forget about this in 4 years and considering how many people forgot about how badly the Torys were dealing with Brexit in 2018 and how badly they dealt with Covid and inflation prior to 2024's election shows that tribalism plays a huge part in voting and FPTP means that people will vote for "their side" rather than what best fits them. I mean, people even now opine for the days of Johnson and bloody Truss over Starmer and even Sunak FFS and as much as Sunak wasn't my cup of tea, he was a million times better than that buffoon.

 

Those affected by losing benefits they need won't forget though.
I tire of this "we have to combat scroungers" stuff when we know abusers of these systems are like 2% of claimants and don't really make a big difference to overall expenditure. It's annoying that they exist and I've seen them myself, but you don't scrap something most people need because a tiny fraction of people misuse it.

 

The problem is, in the areas they have hit so far, pensioners and now disability, there is no minimal impact.

Plus, on the pensioners winter fuel payments they had smarter, better options. Like restricting via tax band, instead they went for the crudest, sledgehammer macho option of a complete axe and whipped MPs to vote for it.

Which is also why I think this has blown up in the way it has. Is it fair more is expected of Labour than the Conservatives? Perhaps not but it also granted them a little more trust, which they've torched.

There's also the economic argument for benefits - PIP is spent, the money goes back into the economy. It's been argued PIP generates more via that route so it is a contributor to consumer spending.

But hey, we don't need evidence and data, they feel and they believe and that's all that is needed.

 

Diane Abbott has suggested they start taxing the rich .... I... wha ? What is she thinking!

 

As much as Dianne Abbott has a tendency to annoy me. I think she may be on to something there.

 

Better idea: tax cuts for the rich so that they can create more jobs and invest in their communities, thereby making poor people wealthier, almost like the wealth is trickling down onto them like angel tears from on high. We can call it trickle down economics or something. It's guaranteed to work, I can't imagine the rich would just hoard the excess wealth like gold in a dragon's den.

 

Or tax the big corporations by closing the loopholes they use.

Big earners like football players already pay 45% tax and that hasn't really done much.

 

Salary and bonus is all PAYE too so there is no avoiding income tax etc... Endorsements and the likes a little different but the main bulk is 45% once they hit £125k per year so the amount they put into the exchequer is immense.

Personally, if you're earning that level of wealth, there should be a super tax and I wouldn't have a major objection to income tax grading increasing as salary bands increase even up to that historical 90% levels back in the day. Stupid insane salaries need stupid insane taxes.

Also, stop capping Nation insurance based on salary too. If its meant to be 5% of salary then keep it as 5% of salary for everyone not cap the amount you pay once you hit a certain annual salary as then the income tax increase partly nets off against the NI capping which is just stupid.

 

I have to say, if you told me Keir Starmer was a Tory or Reform operative trying to sully Labour's reputation for another couple of decades by moving forward with policies and positions that are wildly hated by Labour's own base, I would be tempted to believe you. I don't think I've ever been more disappointed and baffled by a foreign politician.

 

It's baffling. If we go with the classic approach: Cui bono?

Who is benefitting from this and how? I'm finding it hard to see anything or anyone.

 

I am disappointed in him

I really hoped we would see a bit of a left turn with him. I had hoped he'd gone centre (leftish) to help solidify a voting base and would then start a slow a steady move towards the left rather than the lurch the prior Labour leadership wanted to do but he's been woefully inadequate on the home stage and the amount of missteps are just astounding. I know we're in a weird world right now but the decision making at times just beggars belief.

 

This never happens.

There's nobody who gains power who then does this.

 

It's rare for ex-Civil Service heads to broadside a government but here we are:
https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ainsaws-dont-talk-like-musk-starmer-is-warned

 

True

It's the hope that kills you really

 

The type of society that covers most of Earth is one in which people who want to genuinely make the world a better place are never in a position to gain the power needed to do so and those who are born into said power will never be the kind of people who genuinely want to make the world a better place.

 

We can hope they all join Musk on a one-way trip to Mars.

 

Well, the arrogant fecking feckers are doing it.

It'll be a cruel and total disaster. But even if there a mass disabling event that hit all MPs, you know they'd pass themselves an exemption, nab PIP to the max and then declare how easy it is, while expensing everything.

 

Welfare needs reform

This is not the way to do it.

I've not read it all but I've seen a couple of bits that I like such as those with forever issues not having to be reassessed but the rest of it on initial view is just awful

 

Ah, but how will they qualify for that status? Hint: No-one will.

 

The big problem is invisible disabilities.
I've seen so many people struggle to get their benefits accepted because the people in charge assume if you can walk and dress yourself you can work.

 

Especially when the rate of invisible disability is estimated be 80%.

https://businessdisabilityforum.org...age-of-disability-campaign-research-launches/

The entire "looking disabled" edifice is flawed.

Edit: Meanwhie, Lady Tanni Grey-Thompson is on target:

https://www.theguardian.com/politic...y-campaigners-criticising-brutal-benefit-cuts