The Whole New Republic and Galactic Alliance Gov. is Confusing!

Erm...the Empire didn't join the Galactic Alliance. They've allied with them to fight against a common enemy, but Pellaeon--or any other Imperial, for that matter--does not answer to anybody in the GFFA.

Captain Mayn (Captain Yage is an Imperial--CO of the frigate Widowmaker) worked with Pellaeon out of common interest, not out of any sort of actual responsibility (other than that of common decency).

Furthermore, when the Council of Moffs votes to aid the GFFA, Moff Flennic seems to misunderstand the terms of their rendering of aid. Hence Pellaeon's speech about 'not surrendering our soverignty' (i.e. remaining a separate nation).

Also note that Mara, Luke, & Co. don't state that the Empire has joined the GFFA, simply that they've convinced the Council of Moffs to ally with them. As I recall, they admit that they're 'shallow' allies, or somesuch thing as well.

So, no, the Empire is not a member state of the GFFA (which seems just as useless as the Fey'Lyan New Republic to me...), and they are not subordinate to said Galactic Alliance. Pellaeon is the Supreme Commander of the Imperial Forces, and thus, cannot be given orders my Sien Sovv (Supreme Commander of the NR/GFFA Defense Force, or whatever they're calling it these days) or vice versa.

 

Personally, I see it as something akin to the UN. Or at least striving to be something to be akin to the UN but possibly ending up more as the League of Nations. And if it ends up more as something akin to the latter, I wonder how long it will last.

 

Given that one of their bigger heroes (General Bel Iblis) hasn't decided to formally join up yet, I don't have high hopes for the GFFA.

 

Okay, there seems to be much confusion about the government systems. Here's a little synopsis of the political history of the New Republic and the Galactic Federation of Free Alliances.

The first government of the New Republic was a Provisional Council under Chief Councilor Mon Mothma. This body was responsible for acting as a national government until a permanent government could be established.

Once that government was established, it consisted solely of the Senate, which acted as the legislative branch. The government was parliamentary - that is, the chief executive was elected by the legislature (Senate) rather than the people. The chief executive is the Chief of State (CoS) and together with his supporting staff made up the executive branch. The role of the judicial branch was filled by the Judiciary Council, a part of the Senate, which I'm guessing is the equivalent of a standing committee in the U.S. Senate.

Now, for such a momentous change the books were painfully lacking in detail on what exactly changed. We see in FH I that there's still a Senate, with its members arguing as usual. There's still a CoS, who now seems to have more autonomy regarding military decisions. But was that due to constitutional changes? CoS Cal Omas started having more military power back in DW, before such changes.

We still see no evidence of an independent judiciary, IIRC. And the CoS (executive branch) is apparently not independent; he's probably still answerable to the Senate.

(Quick aside: Did the NR/GFFA hold regular elections, or did their CoS's just serve until death and/or retirement? It seems that way for all the CoS's the NR/GFFA has ever had [which really only amounts to four, five if you count Ponc Gavrisom].)

IIRC, we see no evidence of a change in terms of government structure. We've seen nothing that suggests the GFFA has become like the U.S., otherwise it would have ndependent executive and judicial branches, and there is nothing said in this regard. And have we seen any evidence of a change in relationship between national and planetary governments? I don't think so.

So what has changed? Really, nothing.

This name change should never have happened. Galactic Federation of Free Alliances is a ridiculous name because of the "Free Alliances" part. It implies that individual members (e.g. planets) can make "free alliances" with whomever they wish, and planetary sovereignty on that scale would be disasterous. What if, say, Mon Calamari decided to freely make an alliance with the Peace Brigade, or the Vong?

It's even more ridiculous that the short version is "Galactic Alliance", when it should really be "Galactic Federation". Or why not just call it "GF" or "the Federation"?

And why was this change not detailed further? Who made this change, anyway? I highly doubt that the CoS could rewrite the constitution any way he wants. There must have been a big hallaballoo, and as we see in the U.S. a two-thirds supermajority of the states is required to make constitutional changes; I assume there is a similar provision with the NR.

No, my hypothesis is that it was a looney idea concocted by the authors/Lucasbooks so that it could have the acronym "GFFA". After the "oh, cool!" and "har har har"'s were over, we now realize that we have a crap situation on our hands, due to this needless change.

 

I will refer you to p. 442 of DW to indicate the changes made.

We still see no evidence of an independent judiciary, IIRC.

On p. 442, Omas indicates the formation of an independent judiciary.

Did the NR/GFFA hold regular elections, or did their CoS's just serve until death and/or retirement?

I don't think so. I think COS stays in power until voted out of office, and unlike the UK there are no uniform elections for each district (or sector/system in the case of SW), but rather each individual sector/system has its own predetermined election intervals.

But was that due to constitutional changes?

Also on p. 442, it indicates that none of these changes (independent judiciary, lessened power for the Senate, and change in name) will occur until the constitution is signed, and that won't occur until the war ends. But then by the time FH1 rolls around, the name change has occurred, which indicates that the other changes also occurred to and thus the constitution was signed.

Oh, and Brett I was not indicating that the Imperials had given up sovereignty to the GFFA, just that if you were going to look at the alliance between them and other units as one distinct unit, then Pellaeon, Sovv, and Tenel Ka would all share the title of co-Supreme Commander, since none have any less or greater power than the other.

And why has Wedge not been promoted to Admiral yet? Seriously, the victory at Borleias alone should have merited his promotion.

even more ridiculous that the short version is "Galactic Alliance", when it should really be "Galactic Federation". Or why not just call it "GF" or "the Federation"?

I agree. It is a huge misnomer on the part of DR and the authors. It seemed like they wanted to rename it Galactic Federation, but then realized that would be too similar to another Sci-Fi series.

So what has changed? Really, nothing.

I think enough has changed. The basic structure is still intact, with the Senate being the principle body. But now, Omas has (or will) decreased the power that individual Senators have. As indicated in VP, the Advisory Council (6 people) basically ran the entire government. I believe now, it is far more centralized with Omas acting more like a president than prime minister. In the past, even more so during the war, Senators were basically the heads of their specific sectors & systems, but now it seems that the Senate's job now is for more debate rather than administration.

We haven't seen a total revamp of the govt., but that wouldn't be a good move considering you're in the middle of a war. I believe this way you change the govt. as much as possible with a limited effect to the bureaucracy.

 

Thyrsan4Blood:
I will refer you to p. 442 of DW to indicate the changes made.

I must admit and apologize that I made some comments out of ignorance, for I do not own a copy of DW and its been awhile since I've read it.

On p. 442, Omas indicates the formation of an independent judiciary.

Oh, that's good.

I don't think so. I think COS stays in power until voted out of office, and unlike the UK there are no uniform elections for each district (or sector/system in the case of SW), but rather each individual sector/system has its own predetermined election intervals.

No, I mean does the Senate vote regularly to reelect or replace the CoS? Because it is the Senate that votes for the CoS in the first place.

And why has Wedge not been promoted to Admiral yet? Seriously, the victory at Borleias alone should have merited his promotion.

Wedge is a General, which is equal in terms to an Admiral. This thread sort of explains the whole rank confusion and General vs. Admiral. But Councilor Pwoe indicated that General Antilles could not expect much in the way of a military career in Rebel Dream, so it's pretty surprising that he's even still around.

As indicated in VP, the Advisory Council (6 people) basically ran the entire government.

I don't think so. They helped the CoS make decisions (hence, the "Advisory" name) and they apparently had power over the military as of HT II (after military oversight was returned to the Senate following the Battle of Ithor) but I don't think they "ran the entire government".

In the past, even more so during the war, Senators were basically the heads of their specific sectors & systems

Where do we see this?

 

No, I mean does the Senate vote regularly to reelect or replace the CoS? Because it is the Senate that votes for the CoS in the first place.

I will refer you to TPM, a vote of no confidence is the only way to change the COS.

But Councilor Pwoe indicated that General Antilles could not expect much in the way of a military career in Rebel Dream, so it's pretty surprising that he's even still around.

But I believe that in one of the books following EL (DW?), it indicates that Pwoe has been phased out. He is trying to say that he is the true government somewhere out in the middle of nowhere, but everyone knows that Omas and the remaining Senators at Mon Cal are the true govt. So whatever Pwoe said or says really doesn't matter anymore, does it?

I don't think so. They helped the CoS make decisions (hence, the "Advisory" name) and they apparently had power over the military as of HT II (after military oversight was returned to the Senate following the Battle of Ithor) but I don't think they "ran the entire government".

I think they do. Yes, I know that the COS is the guy in charge, but basically from the amount of influence that the Advisory Council had on each of the COS decisions, I think they basically ran the government. Really up until DW, there are very few instances where the COS is making any political decisions w/o the members of the Advisory COuncil being present. Since then, it seemingly hasn't been that way at all. I think that is a notable difference.

Where do we see this?

In DW, we see individual Senators coordinating the shipping of supplies, goods, etc. to their individual systems. If we apply the U.S. govt. to this, you don't see individual Senators/Congressmen coordinating supplies, etc. to their individual constutients. In a federal system (taking the US version), there is a strict bureaucracy that coordinates between the federal and each individual state govt., which resides outside the Senate. It seemed the Omas wanted this, rather than previous system, where all such bureacracy was being funneled thru individual senators.

I can't think of many other examples off the top of my head, but I think that is a pretty glaring example.

 

I will refer you to TPM, a vote of no confidence is the only way to change the COS.

Ok.

But I believe that in one of the books following EL (DW?), it indicates that Pwoe has been phased out. He is trying to say that he is the true government somewhere out in the middle of nowhere, but everyone knows that Omas and the remaining Senators at Mon Cal are the true govt. So whatever Pwoe said or says really doesn't matter anymore, does it?

I thought so, but I also thought that General Antilles's actions (i.e. dictate orders, threaten to leave, his demands) would've been frowned upon by most Senators.

I think they do. Yes, I know that the COS is the guy in charge, but basically from the amount of influence that the Advisory Council had on each of the COS decisions, I think they basically ran the government. Really up until DW, there are very few instances where the COS is making any political decisions w/o the members of the Advisory COuncil being present. Since then, it seemingly hasn't been that way at all. I think that is a notable difference.

But what evidence do we see? The Advisory Council really only appeared in the NJO, I believe, and we see them in VP doing nothing but bickering, maybe once in SbS (I haven't read this one in a long time), and once in HT II. The HT II scene is the only time, as far as I can remember, that we ever see the AC making a decision, and it was regarding the military (whether Fifth Fleet should go to Corellia or Bothawui). That's just one time, regarding one department.

In DW, we see individual Senators coordinating the shipping of supplies, goods, etc. to their individual systems. If we apply the U.S. govt. to this, you don't see individual Senators/Congressmen coordinating supplies, etc. to their individual constutients. In a federal system (taking the US version), there is a strict bureaucracy that coordinates between the federal and each individual state govt., which resides outside the Senate. It seemed the Omas wanted this, rather than previous system, where all such bureacracy was being funneled thru individual senators.

I can't think of many other examples off the top of my head, but I think that is a pretty glaring example.

Yeah, I remember that now. Sorry, I don't have a copy of DW and I haven't read it in a long time, so I may be ignorant on specific occurences in that novel.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but would not the actions of the Old Republic's Senate have nothing whatsoever to do with the New Republic's? They were totally different governments.

 

Yes, but what makes you say that?

 

Both the New Republic and the Galactic Alliance were far more federalistic than the Old Republic (pre-Palps, ofc).

 

I think they should make a post NJO novel about a vote for a new name of the new government. I like the Imperial Republic, the Third Republic, the New Republic, the Golden Republic, or my personal favorite, the Galactic Rebellion. That name will bring good times.

 

Imperial Republic...

I don't think the Empire will ever change its name, but 'Imperial Confederacy' would actually be the most accurate term for their governmental body.

The GFFA, though... It's just a mess.

 

I think they should either switch back to New Republic (or my favorite, New Galactic Republic), or Third Republic/Third Galactic Republic. Having a number in there is good insurance in case another galactic disaster should prompt a new name change. Or, they should drop the "Free Alliances" part and just call themselves the Galactic Federation.

 

Remember guys, with time we will all get used to the name Galactic Alliance.

As I said a month or so ago, it took many fans, including myself, years to get used to the fact that the Rebel Alliance had become a "New Republic".

When I first read Heir to the Empire back in the early 90's, I was so bothered that my Rebel Alliance ceased to exist. But over time, I gre to realize that the RA and the NR were the same thing, just repackaged.

I think with time that everyone will get used to the Galactic Alliance. Just think of it. There is now a "Alliance Fleet", that sounds real cool to me, and is an obvious throwback to the old Rebel Alliance.

Give it some time guys, the Galactic Federation of Free Alliances, more commonly known as the Galactic Alliance, will grow on you.

The name is less important than the principles. As long as the new Galactic Alliance can get its act together and save the galaxy, it will be a sucess. Hopefully it can produce a lasting peace, and a strong future.

 

But....it's such a terrible name. I mean, at least "New Republic" was decent. "Galactic Federation of Free Alliances" is stupid and misleading.

Just plain "Galactic Federation" would have been fine, adding on the "Free Alliances" part is stupid because 1) It makes the name longer 2) It's just trying to go "It's the GFFA! Har har har!" and being utterly witless in the process of creating humor/irony 3) It makes the shorthand name "Galactic Alliance", which is so utterly stupid because the shorthand terms are supposed to go together, like how "nited States of America"is United States for short rather than "United America" 4) It implies that the individual planets within the GFFA are free to make whatever alliances they wish ("Free Alliances") which is dangerous. In fact, such a perogative for states in the U.S. is specifically banned in the Constitution, and for good reason. What if some planet decides to sign a pact with the Peace Brigade, or the YV? The "Free Alliances" part would imply that they have that right, and it would be most dangerous.

Oh, and 5) Because now when we say GFFA people will have to guess whether we're referring to the Federation or the Galaxy Far Far Away.

 

So lets just ask the main question on everybodys mind.

Is the Galactic Federation of Free Alliances a one big government over the New Republic, Empire, Chiss, and soon Hapes consortium or is the New Republic just perferred to a new name with new changes?

I just want to get this straight, because everyone on the boards assumes to think it's one big government over the smaller governments, but in the book they are telling it's just the New Republic with new armor.

 

I believe that the Galactic Alliance is just a repackaged and reformed New Republic.

The GA rose from the ashes of the NR.

 

Ken...
"4) It implies that the individual planets within the GFFA are free to make whatever alliances they wish ("Free Alliances") which is dangerous."

Not true, you're mistaken about the "Free" portion of the title.

FIrst off, it is meant as a historical linkage to past glory. That is, the GFFA is fundamentally the latest extension of The Alliance of Free Planets - the political entity which grew from a paramilitary guerrilla army, the Rebel Alliance.

As such, the "Free" is most certainly not meant to apply to modify the alliance part such that they are free to do whatever they want.

No, the "Free" part is there as symbol of freedom. That this government and its people are a free people.

 

Iagree with Genghis.

Everyone gets hung up on the new name.

The Glactic Federation of Free Alliances, aka Galactic Alliance, is structured politically very similar to the NR, with the exception that the Chief of State is more powerful.

I agree that the "free" in GFFA implies that these are free peoples, not something implying that the members can do what they want or simesuch.

I choose to use the shortened version, Galactic Alliance, over the much larger GFFA.

 

Yes I think that it will make all our lives easier if we simply refer to it as the Galactic Alliance or GA.

But I do agree that the term Galactic Federation of Free Alliance is a misnomer.

 

It makes me mad that we never get to the Galactic Allaince's name except on about 15 pages throughout the whole book. This has been happening from the FH Trilogy to TFP. We still hear the crew refer to the New Republic more than the Galactic Alliance. How in the hell am I suposse to get used to the name when I hardly ever hear it?

I still don't like the name. It's just too............ordinary and weak! An Aliiance can be formered by anybody from two people to a million people. But the name Republic or Federation seems more united and powerful.

 

You took the words completly out of my mouth!

 

A President's term in the Old Republic lasted a four years. Then another President is voted in.

Palpstine's term was extended past the usual two terms that Chancellors can serve so that he could deal eit the Seperatst Crisis.

So, in the OR Presidents/Chancellors were voted for on a regular basis

Calorum was ousted before his term was up.