The Yoda Lightsaber Duel

I can't believe that people don't like seeing Yoda fight...And as far as his "fighting style" being too acrobatic for a 800+ year old creature...That's just ridiculous..."Judge me by my size do you?...As you should NOT! For my ally is the Force and a powerful ally it is..."

Everyone can seem to buy into Anakin picking himself up off his butt and using the Force to leap in and save Obi-Wan at the last second from Dooku, or all the other extraordinary things others do with the Force, but Yoda can't use the Force to enhance his abilities? Come on people!!

IMHO the entire character of Yoda is elevated due to this scene.

 

I agree. As a matter of fact, I think Lucas could have gone even further with Yoda's abilities.

 

<begin; humor tag>

ala Monsters Inc.

Ya! Yoda could've blasted him with his laser vision and then picked him up with his mind powers and shook him like a dog!

<end; humor tag>


Sorry, couldn't help myself.

 

It's like GL is saying, "You've seen "magic" fights before in LOTR and even little Willow. But wait a minute, this is Star Wars, let's get to the lightsabres!"

Exactly. That's why Star Wars is awesome and LOTR is dumb.

 

The fights in SW is about hand to hand combat. Not necessarily about the Jedi only using the Force. When did SW fans stop liking lightsaber duels? That was what separarted SW from other Sci-Fi movies. LIGHTSABERS!!!!

 

Well, the whole thing is that I too am not a fan of Yoda's fight at all, and honestly, I really wanted to be. I looked forward to seeing how George wanted to continue to define the fights of the older more powerful jedi, but instead I was turned off by it and the way it simply does not fit into Star Wars at all.

To me, George always seemed to want to establish that older Jedi use the force and the young ones use their lightsabers because you just aren't in the physical shape you once were. The perfect example is with episode IV where Obi Wan is no spring chicken and Vader is getting older and he's crippled. The fight reflects it, and I respect that.

In Episode I, the theme is reprised. Qui-Gon is older and slower, and the younger Maul defeats him because of it. Episode II then decides it's time to turn this concept upside down by not only having the old jedi move faster than the younger ones but by having them do hard to swallow acrobatic feats. Still worse is that they take the oldest character in the saga and have him speak and move for 95% of the film like he's got arthritis and emphysema only to use him in 5% of the same film like he's a superhuman in the prime of his life.

Really the best looking older jedi in Episode II was Mace Windu. Yes, he had some assistance from the CG animators, but it wasn't as over the top as it was for Dooku and Yoda. I enjoyed his action performance and long to see more like it from the older jedi masters in Episode III, however the fans and general audiences have spoken and I will just accept the fact that Episode III will probably chocked full of older jedi getting too many CG enhancements.

 

On this - it would have really cool if they hadn't seperated "the Force" from lightsabers and rather had both - think of the Maul/OB1 fight, but kick it up a notch.

Yet I lament . . . this is water under the bridge.

 

Yes, Yes! To Jar Jar you listen.

Thanks Jar Jar





(what an odd thing to say. I never thought those words would come out of my mouth, er fingers)

 

Jar Jar, he is using the Force to overcome the "arthritis"

And you must have forgotten about Qui-Gon using the Force to sprint down the hallway to get away from the destroyer droids and he used it during the fight with Maul to leap around a bit also...I don't really see how your argument on Ep. II turning things upside down holds water. It's just another example of people buying into other Jedi doing these things but not Yoda.

 

i back petmytauntaun 100%...havent any of you heard of people doing extreme feets of strength during extreme times of stress? example a car falling on someone and one person lifts the car off the victim.

 

The idea that older Jedi use the Force because they can't move that well is by your own admission what YOU thought. Doesn't make it so. A lightsaber is the weapon of a Jedi, period. ObiWan told us that. ObiWan seemed to move slowly, but held his own against Darth Vader. And in fact he WAS old. Darth Vader was basically a Pez dispenser in an exoskeleton, so that easily explains why he isn't doing backflips and somersaults. Qui-Gonn got beat because Maul was a better fighter combined with the fact he fought in a style Qui-Gonn hadn't faced, he never looked slow to me at all.

It's true that normally Yoda limps around like George Burns, so it's either a)he's just old and it took all he had, force-wise, to move that fast against Dooku, or b)he fakes it alot of the time. Either is a perfectly valid reason to me.

And as far as my comparison to dwarven warriors, while they aren't known for flips an somersaults, they fight using their size to their advantage. Often in the books I read they will roll between a larger opponents legs and such. See Gimli in LOTR against the cave troll for an example of how a dwarf might fight a larger opponent.

 

on one of the dvd's behind the scenes docs, it shows dooku's stunt double using two sabers like we all thought he was going to.

after seeing that i am really miffed that it got cut! did u see the way he was using those blades?!! it wouldve been awsom to see yoda v dooku wiv 2sabers!

 

Well, I re-worded my original post here because I didn't express myself properly, so hopefully my editied comments will help. Don't get me wrong, I still greatly respect Yoda and I respect Dooku, Mace, and all the rest of the older Jedi. I like the fact that they use the force to enhance their speed and jumps and such, but I also think that this can get abused and it did in some cases when it simply didn't have to be. I think that both Qui-Gon and Mace have been exemplary older jedi as far as their action scenes go, but that's IMO so take it or leave it.

The force is an ally to the experienced masters more than it is to the younger Jedi, but it has always seemed to be that the younger jedi enjoy a better physical condition to compensate for this advantage when it comes to a lightsaber duel. The way Dooku's fighting style was originally described intrigued me. In the actual film Obi-Wan and Dooku's fight and even in parts of Anakin's I thought they used Dooku well. The younger attacker comes into him, he parries, looks for a weakness, and he exploits it once it's found. He is more experienced and this makes him difficult to defeat.

In his two fights with Anakin and Obi-Wan, they went a little overboard with Dooku, but they kept him basically "grounded" well and it was nice to watch. When Yoda shows up though, even the choreography is messed up by Yoda's speed and antics. In one spot Yoda runs behind Dooku and flips off his ship while Dooku's back is turned completely away. Dooku could have easily been decapitated or otherwise dispatched but nothing happens and it just looks like a hole in the fight. Watch it again and you'll see it, and that wouldn't have happened at all if Yoda fight had been handled more sensibly.

Like I said, I wanted to love it as I have loved all the other duels in Star Wars but I just couldn't. I know they tried hard not to make it funny but it just didn't work for me. If you like it, that's cool and I can respect that but I just don't.

 

Not Star Wars?

NOT STAR WARS?

Oh come on now, this is exactly what Star Wars is - being saved by the "lowliest" or the unexpected?

Who saves Luke, Leia, Han and Chewie from the Trash compactor? 2 silly droids.

Who blew up the Death Star? A farm boy.

Who saves Leia from Vader in Cloud City? Lando, the one who had earlier betrayed them.

Who saved the commando force on Endor? Fuzzy little teddy bears.

Who defeated the emperor? His right hand man, the main villain Darth Vader.

Who drew out the occupying force from Theed so a sneak attck on the castle can be made? The goofy Gungans and Jar

Who blew up the droid control ship? A little munchkin from a backwater desert planet.

Who defeated Dooku (or at least forced him to back off)? An ancient, short, green gnome who has trouble walking.

The scene was written to show that help can come from the unlikely source. It was also written to appeal to the mass market. Most people are not drooling fanboys like we are, and are just there to be entertained. That scene was very entertaining.


(edit - typos)

 

go dog!

 

thank you dog!!

 

Well Jar-Jar, I still stand by my original statement and I too respect your decision not to like this fight...As I said in my original reply, I don't understand it, but I'll still respect it...To each his own.

 

But Yoda saving the day was exactly what you would expect so if you are going by that, then it definitely doesn't fit in with Star Wars at all. Yoda is the ultimate jedi master, so he would be by far the most qualified to deal with Dooku or anyone. I'm not saying that Yoda would be incapable of fighting or defeating another lightsaber using, force-toting meanie, in fact, I think he would be fully capable of taking care of any of them, but it's the actual execution of him doing just that that I and others don't enjoy for various reasons.

As I said before, if you liked the fight that's cool, but don't jump my bones because I don't. I respect your opinion so please respect my own. This hasn't gotten bad yet, but I can see it going there quickly.

 

my only retort to this is everyone arguing about this, doesnt change anything...it doesnt change lucas' vision...of the films nor mine...this is still the greatest series in movie history. i think the problem lies that every single one of has preconcieved notions of what the prequels would be...turns out they are nothing like what we thought. so it's not george disappointing us it's our own imaginations disappointing ourselves...however i am not disappointed one bit

 

i love everything about the YODA/DOOKU battle.

nothing wrong with it in my mind.

 

Thank you Obi-Wan-Skiniobi, I agree and would like to add to this...I think a lot of people need to remember the context that Star Wars as a whole should be taken in...G.Lucas has said on more than one occasion that these movies are an homage to the old Saturday Matinee serials (I.E. Flash Gordon), it's not likely that anyone in any of the Star Wars films will ever receive an academy award for acting, it's not supposed to be "realistic", it's a make-believe world!! I don't believe George Lucas has ever made the films for the "fans", he wants to tell his story, and watching his interaction with the actors and crew behind the camera it's obvious to me that he's not doing this for the money either!!! He has a story to tell, his technical companies make more money than he could possibly need so he doesn't care about the box office return. He has already stated that Ep.III will probably be the least favorite at the box office due to it's dark tone, but that's the "story"...I don't blindly love every single frame of film just because it has Star Wars content...But I do love the scene with Yoda fighting...It's Star Wars in every way it should be, so was Qui-Gon, Luke Skywalker, Boba-Fett and every single alien in the Mos Eisley cantina...is the acting always good? No. Could I have done with less Jar-Jar in Ep. I? Yes, but I understand there was a point to it all in the overall context of the "story". Let Yoda fight and accept it (notice I didn't say you had to like it), it's sure not going to be changed at this point.

Edit: spelling

 

(i apologist for things already said)
i thought the lightsabre duel was a good part of the movie because it established the characters level, annikan charges in recklessly and is beat, obiwan does last much longer, then yoda, practically the head of the jedis comes in and totally takes the scene, that is why it is important. IT establishes yoda as the best there is.
Who survives the jedi slaughterings? (none other than obiwan, and yoda(and luke and leia.)
thats why this scene is needed.

 

Star Wars Insider last month had a sweet article on lightsaber fights and styles. Even if it doesn't really count as canon, it still gives an explination for the different styles of fighting (7 different ones as I recall). It mentioned each of the lightsaber battles from the movies and which form each Jedi (or Sith) used. Yoda is a IV master, which form emphasizes movement and speed (like Darth Maul). That's another reason to be bouncing around and flipping over Dooku's head (besides the size difference).

In regards to the question of the limping Yoda vs. lightening fast Yoda, I agree that "Judge me by my size do you? And well you should not. The Force is my ally, and a powerful ally it is". How can you argue with that? If he can lift an X-wing as a grey-haired 900 year old, he ought to be able to accelerate his own movements for a couple of minutes.

 

Yoda is a Master , and that means that not only is he wise, sagely kind of person, he is also a veteran fighter. That's who a Jedi is -- wanting to settle everything through the Force, but willing and able to fight if it came to that. Handling a lightsaber is NOT a MUST for being a Jedi, but showing that Yoda is skilled not only in the Force but also with a lightsaber underscored what his position as a Master. At least in my mind.

And that line Dooku said -- well, I see it as a foolishness on Dooku's part. It is obvious that he thinks that, since Yoda is so tiny and since he is this "sagely," old creature, Yoda can't fight. Dooku is a Sith -- consequently, he's arrogant and thinks too highly of himself.

I really liked the scene. It was cool; the speed with which Yoda fought was incredible, and I really liked how Yoda was always defending himself and Obi and Ani, NOT attacking Dooku, which is also a hallmark of a Jedi Master.

EDIT: Actually, I thought that the older Jedi used the Force and the younger Jedi, their lightsabers, precisely because the younger ones are more reckless than the older ones. But when somebody challenges you to a lightsaber duel, you don't go and attack with the Force (which is not exactly fitting of a Jedi Master, anyway).

Aunecah

 

the transition from force to lightsabers made perfect sense, Dooku was trying to act like he was better than yoda, so he was just trying to say "we may be even in the force but im gonna kick your a$$ with my lightsaber you muppet punk", then yoda does the perfect old west thing where he moves his cloak back grabs his saber and hands dooku his lunch, then dooku realizeing he got punked out drops the collum and runs like the fat kid from the bullies to his ship.