Lit Theories on the Force and Religion in Canon

I decided to make this thread because over the past couple of months I've gathered my own theories as to exactly what is going on with some of the more vague spiritual elements of Star Wars canon. Feel free to share your own theories in the replies, I love discussing this stuff.

The Force
Starting out, what exactly is the Force? Well according to the films it's an energy source that binds the galaxy together. Life creates it and makes it grow. All energy from the Living Force, from all things that have ever lived, feeds into the Cosmic Force, binding everything and communicating to people through the midichlorians. To start out I'll define some terms.

Living Force - Life. Plants, animals, etc. The energy that living beings generate.
Cosmic Force - Where energy from the Living Force ends up. This is essentially the afterlife where people's souls end up when they die. The Cosmic Force can then flow back into the Living Force through things like reincarnation or Force-wielding. The Cosmic Force has a will and very likely exists outside of mortal conceptions of time and space.
Midichlorians - Microscopic beings that reside in all living things. They communicate the will of the Cosmic Force to people. You can learn to hear the Midichlorians, and therefore the Cosmic Force through meditation and other similar calming activities. Some believe that if you have a high amount of midichlorians you must therefore be strong in the Force, however it is also possible that Force-wielding has nothing to do with midichlorian counts since they may not necessarily determine the way the Cosmic Force can flow through someone, only their ability to hear the will of the Force (see Chirrut Imwe for example).
Force Sensitive - This is traditionally believed to be someone who has certain magical powers afforded to them due to the amount of the Cosmic Force flowing through them. It is often synonymous with 'Force Wielder' which may be a more accurate term since technically anyone can 'sense' the Force, but only some can wield it.

The Whills
The Whills are something that is widely misinterpreted by many Star Wars fans. Many think they are the Priestess from The Clone Wars. Others think Yoda is one of the Whills. But if we read interviews where George Lucas talks about this topic we can learn what the Whills actually may be.

Lucas has stated that the Whills essentially are the Force, that they're sentient, that they control the galaxy, they feed off the Force, and that they essentially use people as vehicles presumably to impose their will on the galaxy. The fact that they feed off the Force (and presumably are a part of it) sounds very similar to the Cosmic Force. And them using people as vehicles sounds very similar to what Lucas has said relating to the Force controlling people and having a destiny planned out for them while at the same time giving them the free will to alter or refuse their destiny.

What I'm proposing is that the Whills are essentially whatever sentience or 'will' the Cosmic Force may have. They are presumably something of a societal 'hive-mind' (not the most pleasing term but it gets the point across). It's essentially the idea that society, when in accordance with nature, will naturally move towards positive and altruistic things.

Mortis and The Ones
Thanks to Fantasy Flight Games we have a somewhat clear definition on what Mortis is. The FFG sourcebook Nexus of Power (which has had input from Lucasfilm Story Group members Pablo Hidalgo and Leland Chee) says that Mortis is a realm created by the Force, and that the Ones are incarnations of the Force itself. Daughter is the light side personified, Son is the dark side, and Father is balance. At one point the Ones were out and about in the galaxy but Father realized his children could tear the fabric of reality apart so he made them stay in Mortis where he could control them as anchorites.

Filoni has described Mortis as similar to the Dagobah vision Luke receives in The Empire Strikes Back. In Mortis you see what you bring with you.

The Ones may be some representation of the Force, but that doesn't necessarily mean they're 'correct'. George says that the Force allows free will and the altering of destiny. It's possible that the Ones are only but a small and specific representation of the Force's will that would disagree with representations of other aspects of that same will. Think of it like how in the Greek and Roman pantheons the gods would bicker and disagree. Just because someone is the god of some concept doesn't mean they're the be all end all answer to everything.

Now as far as Mortis itself is concerned, it is said to be a conduit through which the Force flows. This sounds similar to the idea of the Cosmic Force flowing into the Living Force through the midichlorians. And if it is a place in between the Cosmic and Living Force, it's possible that Mortis is the World Between Worlds on some level. It is also a realm that can have drastic impact on the greater galaxy and people should be careful when within Mortis, which is also very similar to the World Between Worlds.

I should also note that it is commonly believed that Mortis is specifically entered through that specific area of space in TCW, specifically using a ship. However FFG says that Mortis is a realm with no actual place in the galaxy. Sometimes it appears to you when you exit out of hyperspace, other times you open a door and are suddenly inside Mortis. Mortis doesn't always have to be visited through the means seen in TCW.

tl;dr definitions around Mortis and The Ones:
Mortis - A conduit through which the Force flows. It is probably even some aspect of the Force itself turned into a realm. If something happens in Mortis it will affect the galaxy at large. An interesting note is that 'mortis' means 'death' in Latin.
Father - Some aspect of the will of the Force turned into an avatar of balance between the light and dark sides.
Daughter - Some aspect of the will of the Force turned into an avatar of the light side.
Son - Some aspect of the will of the Force turned into an avatar of the dark side.

The World Between Worlds
Now we must talk about the World Between Worlds and exactly what it is. According to Rebels it is a place where you can alter time and space. If you control the World Between Worlds you can control the universe itself. It is also tied to the Mortis Gods. Henry Gilroy has described it as a nexus point between the Living and Cosmic Force, and that what you see in the World Between Worlds (what portals and voices you encounter) depend on what you bring into it.

Filoni has said that the World Between Worlds is inspired by the Wood Between Worlds in Narnia. The Wood Between Worlds served as a purgatory between all worlds that one could visit if they used certain magical artifacts or walked through portals. You could enter the Wood through contact with someone who was using an artifact themselves. It would harm hostile parties who tried to enter it. It seems that similar rules apply to the World Between Worlds given that Palpatine grabs Ezra to enter it, but when Ahsoka cuts off his connection he's burnt and forced to pull out of the portal.

Another interesting thing is that in Narnia travel using the Wood Between Worlds is said to have been more common in ancient times. This may be true for the World Between Worlds as well given that the ancient Jedi built a portal to it on Lothal. It seems as if it may also be tied to the realm of hyperspace given the Loth-wolves' connection to spirituality on Lothal and their 'teleportation' being through hyperspace.

tl;dr - The World Between Worlds is a realm outside of time and space. It is in between the Cosmic and Living Force. Hostile parties need to have a physical link to someone inside of the WBW to enter it, and if they do enter it they can essentially rule the universe.

The World Between Worlds' connection to Mortis

The World Between Worlds can also take many different forms. Filoni has said that the WBW is what Ezra used to talk to Yoda earlier in the show so it's possible that the 'portals to time and space' version of this realm only appears to people infrequently with other uses of it being more common. I think it's very possible, given both of their places in between the Cosmic and Living Force, and their ties to the concept of an afterlife, that Mortis is simply a little part of the World Between Worlds that Father carved out to hold his children within.

Keep in mind as well that these portals aren't the only way you can enter the World Between Worlds. Simply being inside a Jedi Temple or performing a ritual like Palpatine does can give you access. This is similar to what we know of Mortis.

In TCW we see that Mortis is presumably 'destroyed' when Father dies and the giant crystal at the top of his monastery shatters. Given that Lucas used notes from when he was developing the Force while developing Mortis, I think this may be something similar to the Kiber Crystal seen in the old scripts for A New Hope. In those scripts the Kiber Crystal was a crystal (or a type of crystal depending on the draft) that could be filled with Force energy. It could then be used to amplify the Ashla or Bogan depending on who wielded it. These scripts also implied that the Kiber Crystal (back when it was still a single powerful crystal) could make someone younger.

I think it's possible that the crystal seen in Mortis is a Kyber crystal that Father brought with him into the World Between Worlds. I think he may have then used the power of this giant Kyber to build the realm of Mortis around the crystal. Then he used the power of Mortis (aka, the power of the Kyber when brought into the World Between Worlds) to control his children and live inside Mortis for thousands of years prolonging the lives of his family.

Something else I would like to return to is my discussion on the Whills above. Remember how I said that the Whills are essentially the Force and whatever sentience it may have? Doesn't that sound very similar to the Mortis Gods? Remember how I made connections to the Whills and Cosmic Force (which itself is essentially the energy of beings who have passed into the Force)? I think that the Whills manifest through avatars like gods (the Ones) or reincarnated beings (Dume) to communicate their will and destiny to living beings. These avatars may not always see eye to eye on things depending on what specific Whills they once were or what concepts they represent, but they still communicate the will of the Force on some level, even if it may be slightly contradictory.

Bendu and the Order of Dai Bendu
Bendu is an interesting creature. I am inclined to believe that he's a similar being to the Ones of Mortis. He has power way above any Jedi or Sith and appears to be almost in control of Atollon itself. And according to Filoni, Bendu is actually tied to the ancient Order of Dai Bendu (the predecessors of the Jedi). "Bendu is actually derivative of the Order of Dai Bendu, which was the full name of the Jedi a long, long time ago. So that’s why Bendu seems to know a lot about them, about Kanan, that he’s a Jedi." - Filoni

Bendu and Father

In the ANH scripts the Jedi are formed when a man named the Skywalker comes to know the Force. He then communicated the will of the Force to his 12 children who in turn formed the Dai Bendu. Filoni has said that they often think of George's old ANH scripts as what may have happened in ancient times. Given these connections, I think it's possible that Bendu is a canon interpretation of the Skywalker who trained the original Jedi or Dai Bendu.

Even further, in some drafts of the ANH script the Kiber Crystal has to be brought to Skywalker so he may be reinvigorated in the Force to defeat the Sith. Remember my theory about the connection between Father and the Kiber Crystal? What if this connection also ties Father to Skywalker, and therefore Bendu? I don't necessarily believe Bendu is a reincarnation of Father, but what if he's another avatar of the concept of balance, sort of like how you often see Greek/Roman/Egyptian gods that cover the same topics. Bendu as a god of balance who ended up creating the Order of Dai Bendu. Father as a god of balance who ended up creating the realm of Mortis to protect the galaxy from his children. Both gods of the same thing, but for different reasons and with different mythologies surrounding them.

The Force Priestess and the Wellspring of Life
You'll notice that I said 'Priestess' and not 'Priestesses'. Filoni has said that the Force Priestess is one being who died a long time ago and since then has been divided up into different emotions. FFG speculates that they could be the first being who ever figured out the secret to eternal life. It is said that for your consciousness to exist after death you must overcome fear, know your true self, and let go.

The Wellspring of Life is said to be the foundation of life itself and the birthplace of what scientists call midichlorians. It is said to be the foundation that connects the Living and Cosmic Force. FFG states that there are many wellsprings that exist but the one seen in TCW is the source of all life.

FFG also states that the Wellspring moves around the galaxy constantly. Yoda found it at the center of the galaxy but, like the Force, it can be found anywhere. This combined with the whole 'connecting the Living and Cosmic Force' thing sound very similar to the World Between Worlds and Mortis. It is possible that the Wellspring of Life is a sub-realm within the World Between Worlds that formed when the Cosmic Force begun to flow through the Living Force.

I would also like to note that the Force Priestess probably isn't a Whill, at least not in the form that the 'Force Priestess = Whill' theories usually take. If my Whills theory above is correct, she's probably partly one of the Whills due to the fact that she's one with the Cosmic Force, but that doesn't mean that all Whills look like the Force Priestess or anything. And I don't believe she's a Shaman of the Whills either.

Order of the Whills and Qui-Gon's training
The Order of the Whills is often confused with the Whills themselves. The Order is simply a religious sect seen in Rogue One and hinted at in Revenge of the Sith. There is the Order of the Whills, and within that Order there are various groups like Guardians of the Whills, Disciples of the Whills, and Shamans of the Whills. Qui-Gon learned of the Wellspring of Life from a Shaman of the Whills. FFG states that he didn't learn where the Wellspring was though or how to access it. This is why his training is incomplete.

Most people believe that you must go to the Wellspring of Life to become a Force ghost, however I don't think that's the case. Filoni and Lucas have said that the reason Anakin became a ghost was because he let go and his masters were able to pull him into eternal life. I believe this is similar to the idea of someone entering the World Between Worlds through a connection with another person who is already inside. This 'pulling' idea can easily explain how characters like Obi-Wan, Luke Skywalker, or Ben Solo became Force ghosts even if it seems as though we may never get stories of them travelling to the Wellspring of Life.

tl;dr of my theories

• The Force has a light side of selflessness called the Ashla, and a dark side of selfishness called the Bogan. Between the Ashla and Bogan there is a concept of balance called Bendu.
• The Cosmic Force is where the energy of living things go when they die.
• The Living Force is the energy of a living thing.
• Midichlorians are the conduit through which energy in the Cosmic Force flows through the Living Force. They also commune between the Whills and living beings.
• The Whills are the sum of souls that reside inside the Cosmic Force. They are essentially the will of the Force and 'gods'.
• The Whills often take physical forms as avatars of certain concepts to better communicate their will to living beings.
• The Mortis Gods are Whills who took the form of avatars representing the Ashla, Bendu, and Bogan.
• Kyber crystals can amplify the power of the Ashla or Bogan depending on who wields them.
• Father may have taken a large Kyber crystal into the World Between Worlds to create his own little corner called Mortis where he was able to control his children and prevent them from breaking the galaxy.
• Bendu may be another one of these Whill avatars who represents a similar idea to Father.
• Bendu may have been the source of the ancient Order of Dai Bendu who are the ancestors of the modern Jedi Order.
• The Wellspring of Life may be a corner of the World Between Worlds where the Cosmic Force first flowed into the Living Force.
• The Force Priestess is a single being who died a long time ago. She was able to keep her consciousness after death and over time that consciousness has divided into multiple forms representing various emotions.
• The Order of the Whills is simply a religious sect with various subdivisions including the Guardians, Disciples, and Shamans.
• Qui-Gon learned about the Wellspring of Life from a Shaman of the Whills. He was never able to locate the Wellspring though so his training was incomplete.

 

Nice job!

Really impressive.

 

I wish I had more to contribute, but I enjoyed that post!

 

Just had some more thoughts related to this stuff.

• Going to different realms in Star Wars is more about mindset.
• For the Wellspring of Life the mindset has to be that you're humble, honest with yourself, and willing to let go.
• For the World Between Worlds the mindset has to be that you're willing to act selfless and treat this power with the responsibility it deserves.
• For Mortis the mindset has to be that you have problems you may want to work out. It's about issues in your life that you may be ignoring so you end up in Mortis where these issues are layed bare and you're forced to come to balance with yourself.
• To interact with Bendu or the Loth-Wolves you have to be willing to listen to the Force and not impose your own interpretation or will upon nature. It's the idea that nature will absolutely trample you if you're not willing to listen to it and work with it. It's less about the 'selfish' form of the dark side, and more about the natural 'balanced' form of the dark side. Like the darkness of a wolf killing a deer so it's pack can eat.
• Rituals like you see Palpatine do, or meditation (which can often be somewhat of a ritual in some practices) are about getting into the right mindset to deal with these things. Irl the idea is often that you're prepping your mind and subconscious to deal with issues you may be facing. It's the same in Star Wars with the added caveat that you may end up interacting with these various realms or avatars of the Force depending on what mindset the rituals put you in. Some rituals may be more negative where they try and 'force' the mindset. Think of how some people use mind altering drugs as a crutch to make themselves feel better, even if in the long term they're only making their issues worse. This is probably what is happening when Palpatine is able to access the WBW or when Nightsisters use the Force.

I think the Force is often very mindset based. Like Qui-Gon says, 'your focus is your reality'. On some level you can probably say that the tangible, 'mortal' existence you see in 99% of Star Wars media is somewhat of an illusion made up in the collective minds of the galaxy. And through the Force people are able to break that illusion. Maybe not necessarily in the literal sense, but in a sense similar to losing hope and your 'reality' being that nothing in the world matters anymore. That's sort of the 'reality' that the Empire and Palpatine are able to impose on the galaxy and with the return of the Jedi/Republic that 'reality' is shattered. The Force brings people 'a new hope' and alters reality with Luke and the Rebellion.

Then you see people like Yoda, Ezra, or Anakin who are at times able to completely break that reality and step into this greater, more 'real' form of existence. In ESB Yoda says that people are 'luminous beings' and not 'crude matter'. I think the idea is that groups like the Jedi are able to see existence for what it truly is, and through this higher focus where reality is more malleable they're able to change the reality of others and bring hope to the greater galaxy.

 

@CakeR

Very good posts! And regarding the mindset, one might describe the mindset as a frequency you need to attune to. Like shift your reality, phase to the right mindset/frequency in order to be able to percieve this reality. Frequency shifts may sound like paralell unvierses or overlaying ones invisible to each other. What is within you determiens your surrounding reality, in there is only what you take with you within yourself, as Yoda told Luke about the cave temple.

A Jedi may walk among war and suffering but if within himself he keeps his focus on love, harmony, etc. he will not be touched by those surroundings and be able to bring a bit of his inner light into the world, like a spark. Qui Gon's words are very important there. Many Jedi let themselves be affected by their surroundings, by the past, present and the future.

In the end, perception is limited. We focus mostly on our sense of sight neglecting our other senses. And all our senses can only percieve a tiny amount of percentage of what really is out there as scientists confirmed. The visible spectrum is tiny compared to the rest. Attuning oneself to see with more than just the eyes might help there.

How is one to explore and understand the universe if you are only seeing a tiny part of the puzzle? If the invisible, unpercieveable forces and realms that play a huge part are unconsidered by science?

Luminous beings are we that have forgotten to even know that we too have unseen and unknown parts to ourself. Are we these meatbag bodies or is there more to us? Do we exist in just one reality or are we spread over many others, only percieved as separate? What if every limit is simply one of perception and not finality? What if all the veils can be lifted to reach a more wholesome ascended state of being?

The shroud of Death lifted allows us to interact with the dead and ghosts.
The veil of time lifted shows us the truly timeless universe and reality.
Inside no longer separated from outside shows us that we projected the reality around us from what was within us.
Macrocosm and Microcosm no longer opposites but one and the same as this fractal universe shows how all is one.
...


The Force is mindset based indeed and mindfulness is key to using it. It is often the little details that evade others that saved the day for a Jedi in negotiations and other situations.

But the Jedi need to be careful. Seeing this other reality they may get lost in it, wish to shed life and be one with it. Monks tried to reach that state while alive, their spirit never returning to their bodies that mummified alive naturally. Others sought life in service and a honorable death as proof to be ready in protection of others.

Are the Jedi meant to ascend fully? Are they meant to remain alive and guide the living, percieving both worlds and teaching the underlying truth to the galaxy? Is their mission statement selfless service to the galaxy or selfish imposing ones will and found truth?

 

Reposting another theory I had in a discord server.

On Mother and the Mortis hand gestures
Filoni has said that there's a Mother of Mortis. I've speculated that she would be something like the SW concept of mother nature (essentially the Living Force). From what George has always said it sounds like the whole 'light/dark/balance' stuff is more part of the Cosmic Force. It would make sense that the Father (who essentially represents the Cosmic Force) would have a spouse in the Living Force.

It also lines up with what (someone from the discord server) said about it being chaos since that would naturally be the fourth concept that comes into play between balance/light/dark. Also from some stuff Filoni has said the Living Force is very chaotic. The Loth Wolves represent the Living Force and they very much don't care entirely about the morality that comes into play in the story of Rebels. In Rebels they're presented as a force of nature that is just as likely to maul Ezra alive as well as help him depending on whether Ezra is willing to listen to nature.

Here's my very vague theory on the meanings behind the hands based on my extremely limited knowledge of religious hand gestures.

Palm facing up (Father) - Something important is about to happen. The Heavens are being summoned.
Clenched fist (Son) - Defiance. Possibly the implication of violence.
Finger pointing left (Daughter) - A spiritual journey. Maybe related to the occult and esoteric elements of the Force.
Palm facing down (Mother?) - The Underworld is being summoned. Humility (this would line up with the mother nature thing given that humility played into the Loth Wolves).

Essentially you must have humility (the Loth Wolves transporting you to the Temple). You will be taking a spiritual journey through the occult side of the Force. You will face the temptation of the WBW and defying the balance of the Force. And finally the World Between Worlds is being summoned for you.

 

Legends had the fourth concept, chaos be represented by Abeloth, a Mother figure that was no literal mother but an ascending servant aspiring to take the Mothers place.

But as you mentioned I prefer the original Mother being Mother Nature kinda, which may seem chaotic at times but represents the natural order, not the artificial one of the Father that needs maintenance.

Regarding the hand gestures, there are more than you mentioned. You speculated Palm facing down for mother, but what about Finger pointing right? Spiritually there are even more, like a hand holding an item or both hands folded in the lap or resting in meditative poses. Like Buddha statue gestures.

The Loth Wolves traversing the Underworld, tunneling through solid matter, may be inspired by Hellhounds and other mythological guardian dogs that double as guides. But these animalistic creatures, while intelligent, I'd associate not with Mother but the family pet then.

So far I considered the Priestess as the Mother. The other smaller fragment mural in Rebels has the Mortis family and her depicted on it alongside Lothal, like a trinity of Lothals Temple, Wellspring of Life and Mortis + Family around a triangle with three overlapping circles/realms.

Given there is no mother on Mortis, it'd work if this Priestess being died long ago. And the Mother as a Priestess (akin to Avalonian Priestesses and such maybe) represents life, nature and as the Yoda arc showed many other aspects. Given the Priestess meets Yoda inside the Wellspring planet, below the surface as he has to descend to find her, the journey to the Underworld you mentioned is covered. Likewise it is not just a journey down, but a journey into oneself as he meets his shadow self there. A World inside out, a World within Worlds. A microbiotic world?

The Father had big concepts and the galaxy in his mind, the Mother/Priestess was introspective and focussed not on the outer world but the origin of the outer world, the world within oneself. One's inner balance.

Some other fans also wanted to place the Bendu in some way or form among the family, but that is more tricks to do. As you noted, the Bendu is a paralell concept to Father and balance maybe with interesting past ties but harder to fit into the tapestry and pantheon. I do like the notion that Bendu is tied to the Dai Bendu Monks. While he is not tied to the Prime Jedi of Ach-To, he may serve a similiar function to the Dai Bendu.

In my topics I speculated about ancient methods of communication and travel using the Force only, remote projection, Force Astrogation and other stuff later generations replaced with technology so the Force powers got disused for that. The Legends Book of Sith describes the Mortis Gods as appearing in the sky of worlds and looking to each species like a member of their own. It's descriptions of the Mortis families powers reminds one more of Bendu there and with ancient superpowered Forceusers appearing in other worlds skies or walking among other worlds as ghostly projections (like Luke on Crait), these godly times may be the origin of many legends and mythological pantheons.

Thus, Bendu as an very ancient longlived Forceuser who reached this level and understanding of balance does work.

Likewise other ultrarare species with Force attunement like Yoda's or Maz Kanatas are interesting as their longlivety might have the species remember ancient times easier given how few generations it only has been for them till then.


Now, given our knowledge and deepdive, what is missing? What is the most logical a future series may add in their Mortis/WBW level deepdive episode? Another character? An animal? Or only a location, an item?
So far we had a Wellspring of LIFE, and Mortis, a place of DEATH and Rebirth, as well as a World between Worlds connecting them all. We had all core Family Members and some pets.
Itemwise, we got the Dagger of Mortis.
What is missing? The weird Uncle? Crazy Aunt? A ring of power? A holy sword? A shield?

Maybe Dagobah and the Treecave Temple are another ancient structure that has ties to all of them given Yoda did use it to contact Ezra via the WBW and it was very powerful and the most visual representation of Mortis level stuff we ever got in SW movies, able to mirror what you take with you and let you face what is within you. A motherly place, given it is tied to the Wellspring and started Yodas journey to it, which might have happened physically or metaphorically as it ended on Dagonah where it began.

Also another potential item/symbol we had multiple incarnations of is "the tree", "the mountain" and the like. The Coruscant like the Ach-To Temple is built into and around a mountain. On top of both is a special Jedi tree. The tree is in celtic and shamanic circles a central symbol as its roots below and its branches upwards mirror each other like Yin and Yang, it stands for the seasons, life, death and rebirth as well as a lot else. Even the nordic Yggdrasil world tree comes to mind, as paralell to the Uneti tree of the Jedi. Jedi: Fallen Order had some nice tree iconography regarding the forceusing Zeffo culture and ancient Kasshyyyk imagery in their temples. Likewise a world tree that holds the various planes of existance and worlds literally as per mythology, looks like twisted and turned World between Worlds roadmap between them with its branches and roots.

Still unaired cut content from TCW were other Force Arcs:
One took place on Kashyyyk and showed Wookiee religion revering the trees and tree gods, giant ape creatures they also could rise. While not as major as Mortis and co, this would have been another play on the tree symbology and shamanistic interpretation.
Another unaired TCW Force Arc would have taken us below the Coruscant Jedi Temple investigating a Sith shrine below it featuring again giant intelligent guardian creatures. This concept at least in part got reused in Star Wars Resistance with a world in former Sith Space having build a community and temple over an ancient Sith temple below.

Not all mythology in SW is played up as big as the Mortis etc. stuff, like we had underworld / wonderland journeys with Orphne on Aleena in TCW or even the Skywalker lightsaber becoming literally Excalibur, Maz as Lady of the Lake, etc. So I do wonder what they will put on the same level as Mortis, and what they might keep as lower paralells.

In fact, the Chosen One, Anakin Skywalker as Forceborn prodigy resembles greek half-god heroes, born half of the Force/Father and half of a mortal woman as well as christian Jesus analogues. After herculean feats, he falls and Arthurian, Christian and other mythologies play out with him and his family members.

 

Yes, so long as we understand that the "Living Being" that generates the Force is not life in the biological sense, despite the fact it so often correlates. (At least if we can take Jedi belief at face value -- perhaps we shouldn't!)

We can infer this from Yoda dismissing biology outright when directly discussing Life in its creative context. We all know the line:

"Life creates it, makes it grow; luminous beings are we, not this crude matter".

Organic matter may well be the best conduit through which the Force flows, but it isn't what engenders it.

 

Legends had a very similar concept in regards to the Mother of Mortis. She was the Bringer of Chaos, but there was nothing benevolent about her. She was an all-consuming vortex of destruction that was only contained by the Ones. I prefer the concept of an invisible “Mother of Nature". Much more in keeping with the rest of the Ones.

 

As I mentioned several times over at this thread's predecessor, https://boards.theforce.net/threads/unlearn-what-you-have-learned-the-jedi-thread.50047057/ , I don't think that just because Force ghosts exist and Jedi can talk to them give the Jedi any more authority on how the galaxy works. Everyone knows they have genetic abilities like telekinesis and telepathy, but everything else they talk about like "destiny", "will of the Force", etc. we have no evidence is anything other than their own imagination.

To put it bluntly, Emperor Palpatine has returned to life in Canon and Legends. No Jedi's done that. In the real world a religion has lasted 2,000 years on secondhand accounts of someone coming back to life. Should Star Wars residents take Palpatine's miraculous resurrection as proof he knows the true purpose of the universe and as proof of his divinity? While the Sith Eternal and Palpatine himself will claim as much, any decent moral person in the galaxy would of course say no.

Coming from the Dungeons and Dragons, and more specifically, the Forgotten Realms franchise, just because clerics and necromancers there can speak with the dead doesn't give them any special moral authority in the Realms. I don't see why the Jedi should be any different in their galaxy as outside of their genetic abilities it's clear that all their talk about "will of the Force" is nonsense (and in reality is just the latest draft from the writers' room of the newest Star Wars work here on Earth).

In fact, Dungeons and Dragons/Forgotten Realms had until relatively recently an inversion of being able to speak to the dead giving anyone any kind of moral authority. The Realms' last god of the dead, Myrkul, was not very nice and neither were his followers. It was only in the Time of Troubles novels that the much nicer Kelemvor got rid of Myrkul and took his place as god of the dead and his clerics ended up having ethics and some moral authority.

But notably just being a cleric or necromancer does not automatically give one moral authority in Dungeons and Dragons the way the Jedi supposedly claim their moral authority because they also have cleric-style powers and can talk to the dead. And as seen in many works, their non-attachment philosophy isn't a healthy way of life.

 

You know, the more I think about it, the more I think the Mortis Gods are meant to be the be all end all avatars of the light/dark/balance. In tons of interviews they're presented as such. And with that in mind I think I also figured out how I can make Bendu and Father be the same being. Father was probably reincarnated as Bendu after TCW.

Now I know what you're thinking, how can Bendu have been formed after the Clone Wars but also be this ancient being that formed the Jedai Bendu? Well think of it like Morai. Morai is essentially Daughter reincarnated after TCW and we see Morai in ancient Jedi artwork in Rebels. Also Kanan is somewhat reincarnated as Dume which sort of seems like an important, almost leader figure for the Loth Wolves. A figure so important to them, that I have a feeling that Dume would have existed even before Rebels.

 

Reincarnation does not have to be linear as most think it is. You can be reincarnated before you are dead, or in the past too, given the Force and WBW are timeless. Linear time is an outdated concept anyway. Quantum physics and realm operate different already.

Technically you could meet and interact with yourself without timetravel. Everyone could be you. Better treat all as you would yourself. Maybe all are one and the same... Each a different Incarnation in the rebirth cycles of god... Each and all are god. Or the Force...

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If Father reincarnated as Bendu, and Daughter came back as Morai, where is the Son?

 

Mr. All the Sith might have the answers you seek...


Cue Exegol Cultist scene:

Cultist 1: We did it, we brought him back.
Cultist 2: Wait, what is happening... there is more.
Cultist 1: More? ... Oh by the Old Ones, what is that!
Cultist 2 putting some Snokes in a Jar: I have no idea... but I fear we brought back more than just him! Much more!
Cultist 1: What if we didn't just bring back one Sith but... all of them?


Given the Son got no animal rebirth analogue... he is not dead... anymore!

 

i had a theory that Snoke was the opposite number of the Bendu.

Bendu was balance, Snoke was imbalance?

 

Maybe Snoke is Bendu after Palpatine beat him to a pulp, brainwashed him, and turned him into a Sith slave.

 

Ok, I've updated some of my theories after reading Star Wars Archives Episodes I-III where George Lucas goes into detail on the Whills, the Living Force, the Cosmic Force, and balance in the Force.

Whills - Single celled lifeforms who feed off the Force. Not to be confused with the Jedha based religion, the Order of the Whills. Whills write the Journal of the Whills through living beings who consider themselves to be Keepers of the Whills. Think of how in Abrahamic religions people receive visions from God or angels and write the Torah/Bible/Quran.

Midichlorians - Microscopic organisms that are able to live within the cells of other living things. They allow the Force to flow through living things in the form of Force sensitivity. Midichlorians essentially work for the Whills by communicating the will of the Force to their hosts. They're essentially magic mitochondria.

Living Force - The Force energy that is created by living things. This is generally what the PT era Jedi consider to be 'the Force'.

Cosmic Force - The Force energy of things that have died. A more mystical version of the Force that is possibly meant to have parallels to afterlives. The PT Jedi generally didn't believe or care about the Cosmic Force because 'when you're dead, you're dead.' Qui-Gon proves that it's important because he's able to keep his soul intact when he joins with the Cosmic Force and essentially becomes a part of god.

World Between Worlds - The netherworld of the Force that dead beings pass through to get to the Cosmic Force. The pathway between all time and space. Likely heavily connected to the Midichlorians (may even be the concept of 'Force sensitivity' applied to natural places with plant life that have high midichlorian counts). There are different levels of the Netherworld ranging from ones used for visions, to communication, to travel. The highest level is for travel between space and time. It is nearly impossible for someone without pure intentions to reach the highest level. For lower levels they can possibly force a connection through rituals like when Palpatine does the blood ritual in TCW. Keep in mind this isn't purely accessed through a portal like you see on Lothal. It's naturally accessed through things like visions too.

Wellspring of the Force - Presumably the origin point of the Whills, where the Midichlorians first entered animal cells, and where the first non-Whill lifeforms began as well. It's possible that life spread out from the Wellspring when asteroids carrying whills and animal/plant cells infused with midichlorians traversed the galaxy.

Force Ghosts - Beings who retain their sense of self after dying and joining the Cosmic Force. It's possible that both the Living and Cosmic Force are the same energy with the Living Force being that energy within a vessel. These beings would then be their energy within the Cosmic Force that is regularly dragged back through the WBW/Netherworld to take form again within the Living Force. Often used to communicate the will of the Force to people. Lucas says that given that Force ghosts are partially a part of the Cosmic Force that they're essentially gods (which makes it very ironic given that Palpatine wanted to become a god and Vader ended up actually achieving this through selflessness).

Will of the Force - What most religions would call God or destiny or whatever. Probably just the Whill's natural need for symbiosis translated by the Cosmic Force and turned into a comprehensible goal for sentient beings to follow. Likely takes the form of things like the Mortis Gods or the concept of balance.

Light Side - Selflessness. Symbiosis in nature and society. In accordance with destiny. Not always necessarily good

Dark Side - Selfishness. Conflict in nature and society. Against the destiny that the Force has laid out. Not always

Balance - Personal balance within yourself. Realizing your what draws you to be selfish and making an effort to deny that desire to instead help other people. In the greater sense it's symbiosis with nature and between society. You could almost say that the Jedi, in their function, are the very balance of the Force because they make sure conflict doesn't arise in the galaxy.

Mortis Gods - Three beings who communicate the will of the Force through the metaphor of balance between light and dark. I think they're part metaphor and part real. They were perhaps real people who the Force realized would serve as a great method of communicating the intention of the Whills to people. This would tie into Force ghosts being immortal and a part of god because they allow the Force to communicate through them.

Bendu - Perhaps a similar being to the Mortis Gods who was given immortality to teach beings (possibly the ancient Jedi) the will of the Force.

Force Priestesses - Same as Bendu. The first beings who learned how to become immortal so the Force uses them to teach others how to achieve this.

Force sensitives - People who have a lot of midichlorians that allow them to wield the Force. Generally understood to be Jedi style powers but it can manifest in other ways like musical ability or wisdom. You need to regularly train your Force abilities otherwise you'll slowly lose them like muscles.

Vergences - Locations that are strong in the Force. If you would call a person strong in the Force a Force sensitive, you would call a location strong in the Force a Vergence. Similar to Force sensitives who require training to access their power, a vergence has requirements to use. Presumably these would be things that would prepare people to enter the vergence like an altar where a priest would venerate their gods to enter the right mindset to have the World Between Worlds/Netherworld open to them. I don't think this would necessarily always be the space/time manipulation level being opened, I could see most vergences simply being used for communication or only planetary travel.

 

The Dark Side part of my above post got cut off. What I was going to way was: 'Not always 'evil' the way most think of it. Sometimes it manifests simply through conflict that naturally arises like the conflict between a wolf killing a deer for food. Though even that feeds into symbiosis with the food chain. Essentially, whenever things get sort of vague and hard to pin down, it's probably of the dark side. Both in the sense of things being intentionally vague (think of Palpatine equating the Jedi and Sith to manipulate Anakin in ROTS), and in the sense of potentially dark things that genuinely may be good (like the war the Rebellion wages on the Empire).'