Thoughts on the Fel Empire

But a country is only what people call it, seeing as they're just things we invented to create some division amongst ourselves. As a rule anyone who lives in a country they invented for themselves from the bit of land they claimed gets to name it, until such time when someone insists they start calling it something else at weapon point.

 

Well they still have an Emperor, Moffs, the same flag, they speak Imperial Basic, they use Imperial Dataries as currency, they celebrate Empire day as a national holiday, they even have the same military forces and troop divisions, including the 501st Legion. And you're saying they're not the original Empire? I think that would be news to them.

 

My thoguhts as someone from the politics:

It isnßt about what you call yourself. It is about national identity. Do people identify themselves with a nation and are they realistic in that identification.

In the Holy German Empire (or Holy Roman Empire of Germany or however you translate this into english) never made hte people call themselves "romans". The Emperors nevertheless received tremendous justification from that title. Necessary to prevail in a country full of powerfull Lords with other titles. Charlemagne and the Ottos always claimed to keep the legacy of Rome within their hearts but the only thing they really wanted was: The Emperor Title.

Therefore this is hardly a late rome. It may be an early germany, because people conisdered themselves "doitch" (early form of Deutsch, which means german in . . . erm . . . german). Was it Germany? Well today germans identify themselves with this Empire. Charlemange, Otto, Henry the Teutonic Knights, Barbarossa, Sachsen-Wars . . . all that is GERMAN history. If this is completly right from a political pov is irrelevant. It wouldn´t change the national identity. Which is what is widely accepted (as from a legal point of few this nation was born 1947 at best)

Is the Empire actually a nation? Are there "imperials" . . . citizens who belong to the empire like imperial butchers? gardeners? teachers? We don´t see them a lot in action-comics, but I guess there are.

So, do the imperials of the Felpire consider the Empire of Old their history? Do they think of themselves as heirs to Palpatine, probably just condemning his politics (like germans hate Hitler today, while accepting the Third Reich as their history). From the comics I have read I think they don´t think of themselves as a national heir of Palpatine. Fel I seems to be of great importance to them. They probably see themselves as a new empire born from the old (like Holy Roman Empire and Rome) using the same system. Without knowing how the Empire comes to pass, that is obviously, a guess.

Actually I could imagine scolars of the Felpire discuss, whether Palpatine was the FIRST Emperor or if the gap meant that Fel I. was the beginning. And it surely isn´t obvious enough to say one of both would be wrong.

 

The fact that the citizens of the Fel Empire celebrate Empire Day, the day in which the original Empire was founded by Palpatine surely must mean that they identify themselves as being citizens of that very same Empire. It would be the equivalent of an American celebrating Independence Day on the 4th of July.

Ok so they may have ended up with a relatively benign Emperor but that would be the equivalent of the USSR under Gorbachev as opposed to Stalin.

 

Yeah, that seems to be an indicator, at least. Sorry to aks, but where was that mentioned? I can´t remember them celebrating that day . . . surely I must have missed the dialogue, where they mention it.

 

It's mentioned on Wookipedia.

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Fel_Empire

 

It's also wrong. Government infoboxes are fanon-magnets.

 

It's not like the everyday life of the regular citizens of the Roan Fel Empire is going to be described in detail in the comic books, so that's the best we have to go on seeing as it's fictional. But if we're just going on what we see visually then this is clearly the Empire from Star Wars.

[image=http://edandmari.com/starwars/images/RoanFel.jpg]


And by the same principal this is clearly a film set during the Roman era.

[image=http://italophiles.com/images/wbreem8.jpg]


While there would have been nothing stopping say medieval Scotland from dressing up like that there would also be absolutely no reason why they would want to, they had their own style for their own cultural identity.

 

Well, rightly or wrongly, Fel III certainly seems to think his Empire to be the same entity as the one from the movies.

"The Empire once destroyed the Jedi Knights, I shall not allow it to do so again"

 

Tyber Zahn: The Imperial Remnant is an entirely different polity from the former Galactic Empire; although it may still bear and an institutional and cultural resemblance to the old Empire and although it may ape its ?pomp and circumstance? and mimic its trappings and traditions, it is constitutionally and legally an entirely different political entity. Simply put, there is no continuity of government between the Remnant and the Galactic Empire.

 

Ulicus, I was about to just post the same quote.

Good point though. So regardless of whether OOU fans consider it connected to the first Galactic Empire, it is fair to say that IU the rulers of the New Empire consider it a continuation of the Imperial Remnant and the old Empire.

Jello, I still chuckle when I realize the the Fel Line you love so much venerates the man who you feel destroyed the Galactic Empire.

Of course, I don't mind Pellaeon. Afterall, Ackbar whooped him in battle. Not only that, but he eventually does the right thing and ends the GCW, aids the New Republic in the fight against the Vong, and becomes the temporary Supreme Commander of the Galactic Alliance Defense Force.

--Adm. Nick

 

Ackbar got lucky.

 

I'm not terribly inclined to go back and reread the books that deal with the Palpatine's Empire-Imperial Remnant 'split'; could someone give me a brief rundown on what exactly happened?

 

Jello, I agree on all points, but recall that the Remnant itself considered itself the descendant of the "first" Galactic Empire. So, given that the Fel Empire sees itself as the descendant of the Remnant, it is easy to see why the average loyalist Imperial citizen on Bastion in 137 ABY could consider themselves the latest and improved incarnation of Palpatine's Empire.

Again- I don't disagree with you OOU. However, IU there is alot of compelling evidence that implies that Fel considers his empire to be the connected to the old, albeit an improvement in his eyes given the "Victory without War" policy and institutions like the Imperial Mission.

TIEDefenderPilot:

Well, luck always comes into play in warfare. Does the luck that the United States Navy experienced at Midway negate the fact that it scored a major victory over the Imperial Japanese Navy?

There no evidence that Ackbar was losing at Anx Minor. The phrase "last minute victory" easily implies that neither side held the upper hand until the destruction of the EX-F triggered a explosion that wiped out an additional six Star Destroyers.

--Adm. Nick

 

The Imperial Remnant was formed by former members of the original Empire. It's that simple. I agree that it's not the same as the old - for one thing, they never chose an Emperor (the ascendancy of Fel I would be the point at which the Second Empire began)... oh, and of course they no longer had that whole evil Sith/Dark Side cabal at the highest levels that was going to change it over to a Sith theocracy - a big difference there. They did keep some of the symbolism and ideals of the New Order, which didn't have much to do with Sidious anyways.
If anything, the "Deep Core warlords" were the last, sad remnants of the original Empire - look how they jumped at the ready when the "Emperor" showed up again a couple of years before the YV invasion.

 

Well technically the Republic as portrayed in the PT wasn't quite the same as the Old Republic from the KOTOR era and before. There was a period when it broke apart before being reformed 1000 years prior to TPM. But for all intents and purposes it was still the same Republic.

 

True - and the United States is actually quite different in government than its initial form as well, not to mention that it had no government followed by a weak one for the first few years of its agreed-upon existence. There isn't a clear-cut guideline to determine this; political entities have no existence apart from sentient beings, after all. Historical analysis is what determines these sorts of things, although obviously this is usually overshadowed by partisan rhetoric.

Edit: Sorry, I somehow missed your comment, DarthBoba. The 'split' between Palpatine's Empire and the Imperial Remnant began in the Crimson Empire series, which detailed the quick fall of the Empire following the final death of Sidious in Empire's End (mainly internal squabbling for power, aided by interference from the New Republic, Black Sun and even Nom Anor, plus an angry pro-Palpatine killing machine), after which there was no 'Empire'; only squabbling Imperial 'warlord' states and independents, still subscribing to the 'idea' of the Empire but refusing to cooperate with others. Daala sort-of formed the Imperial Remnant a year later, although she was more interested in the military assets and after quickly failing, she turned over the reigns to Pellaeon, who really put the Remnant together - he moved to the current location, set up Bastion as the capital, and set the stage for Fel's Second Empire.
Imperial warlords also persisted in the Deep Core for a while; Daala again attempted to rally them and was defeated, and they finally exhausted themselves in the farcical "Second Empire" a couple years befre the Vong invaded.
Noticably, the 'Empire Reborn' movement that happened around the time of the birth of the Imperial Remnant and the later 'Second Empire' of the YJK series seemed to be more in line with Palpatine's Empire, as they involved Dark Siders as an important part of their existence.

 

I suspect Gilad has more victories to come with the upcoming Clone Wars novel and all

And of course he has that Star Destroyer Class named after him If he wouldn't have died he might have become CoS of the GA

Daala is not and was never worthy of the Chimaera though........That ship should be a museum in orbit of Bastion. Maybe it still will be........

 

It was formed from Imperial warlord régimes that's the thing. And the Empire was really just one big warlord regime anyway, it wasn't really what you would call democratic.

 

Blackmyron: Thanks. I really didn't feeling like finding a copy of Darksaber or Crimson Empire II anywhere.