Lit Books Thrawn: BOOK III: LESSER EVIL by Timothy Zahn. Nov 16th, 2021.

Mara's earliest appearance chronologically is By The Emperor's Hand #0 and publishing-wise is Heir to the Empire.

 

It is kind of funny going from the Legends audiobooks, which have a more "generic" British type accent for Thrawn, to the current Thrawn books, with such a nice Mikkelsen impression by Marc Thompson. I like both, but am a huge fan of both Mikkelsen's voice for Thrawn and Thompson's version of it. Adding a third Thrawn voice would/will be hilarious.

 

Hopefully Mikkelsen plays Thrawn so we can avoid this.

 

And the first time we see her in HTTE is in Luke’s vision of an alternate encounter at the Pit of Carkoon. So technically it’s on Jabba’s sail barge in a vision, but the underlying message is that we first saw her in association with Jabba and Tatooine.

 

Might want to check the previous page Fred.

 

oh, sorry thought this was new.

 

Question: I've heard many comparisons of the Grysk to the Yuuzhan Vong, primarily because they're a threat from the Unknown Regions (technically not accurate for the YV, but, you know...). But is it true that the idea of a threat from the unknown was something that Zahn was toying with very early on, in some of his older books? I haven't been able to look more into it. So I'm wondering if this is somewhat closer to what he imagined than the retconning of that being the YV, which I think was either implied or stated in later books in the EU (after the NJO).

Additionally, the more I think about it, the more I get classic "Greys" vibes from the Grysks, although a more physically imposing version of them. Maybe that's mainly because of the design of their ships, their basic description, and the way that they operate.

 

I think i remember in TTT that Thrawn mentions pacifying areas in the Unknown Region on behalf of the Emperor. He didn't go much in depth into it since he had business in the known galaxy but i think the seed were their.

Then obviously Thrawn Dulology went into that a bit more. I don't think Zahn intended the Vong to be the big bad but the idea of threats were still there.

 

Seems like he just married his original concept with what LFL later did in his absence with the Vong. Though I don’t think Zahn himself has ever specifically written a Vong character in any of his books.

 

IIRC, Outbound Flight establishes that the Chiss had encountered a Vong scout group and defeated them (not called by name, described as something like "invaders who fought savagely before being repulsed") and thus were aware of the threat, but I can't recall Zahn ever including a Vong character on-page in any of his works either. While "Hand of Thrawn" does clearly set up the prospect of threats from the Unknown Regions and/or otherwise beyond the known galaxy, I don't know if he's ever commented if the Vong were what he had in mind or not (though the Vong weren't the first villains of their kind, either, just the most successful and the ones to get the biggest storyline - Nagai and Tofs, Ssi-ruuk and Yevetha all came first, as did Dark Horse's aborted invasion arc that got folded into the NJO and for which characters like Nom Anor were originally created). Though I do tend to come down on the "the Grysks are at least in part intended as the Nu!Canon equivalent of the Vong, or possibly closer to what Zahn would have done with the concept if it was up to just him, with Jixtus as their Nom Anor" side of things, with the caveat that it's hard to tell yet if other authors will ever pick up on them or if "Chiss vs. Grysks" will stay Zahn's pet plotline that's confined to his books.

I will say that so far I find the Grysks a lot less interesting than the Vong; IMO, the most interesting thing about the Vong is that despite how unbelievably toxic their society and worldview are, at the end of the day they're still just people and we get a wide variety of characters who give a lot of insight into their civilization at various levels that ends up humanizing them (for lack of a better word) to a great degree. With the Grysks so far they've mostly just been "ominous impending threat" without that kind of development, though that might change further down the line.

 

I think the problem with the Grysks is that Zahn only ever writes mystery novels these days, so they’re always relegated to offscreen behind the scenes villains who we know very little about. We haven’t even got a very detailed description of what they look like.

Jixtus is a step in the right direction, in that he’s finally a Grysk with a name and semblance of character, but even then a big part of his shtick is that he’s enigmatic and literally cloaked in secrecy.

 

I looked a bit more into it, and you are correct. I believe the main reference to this is from Vision of the Future, where one of Thrawn’s followers from the Empire of the Hand says the following:

“There are a hundred different threats out there that would freeze your blood if you knew about them. The ruling families can't stop them; neither can any other power in the region.”​

Which leaves it vague enough to serve as a perfect introduction to the sort of story Zahn has been telling in the Ascendancy books. Hopefully, once he’s past the limits of the timeline—incidentally the biggest handicap for any canon SW books right now—he might be able to do even more with all these warring cultures.

I do agree with other users, the Yuuzhan Vong were a much more captivating villain. But I also did come to love Star Wars books in the NJO era, so I may be biased, and I haven't reread any of those books in a long time. But I'd not wish to see them return to Disney canon, because I like the EU being its own thing and having things play out differently in the new canon. I do think the reboot is allowing Zahn to pursue something closer to what he wanted, since, having finished his duology by 1998, it's clear he did not intend for the Yuuzhan Vong originally.

He probably did not intend for anything specific, based on that quote; it's an open-ended hook. But the YV seem very unlike Zahn. Though admittedly I'm not yet entirely sure what sort of universe Zahn is setting up in the Unknown Regions. I know in other posts it's been compared to other science fiction series, ones where the universe is less mapped and more wild. And I agree with that. Though I wonder if we'll ever get enough out of it that other writers could write stories set in the Unknown Regions.

 

@Sauron_18

It only gets problematic when authors (Although this may be more of a Fan thing) say Palpatine made the Death Star to defend the Galaxy from the Yuzong Vong. Which may be just the Imperial perspective even though Palpatine would have made the Death Star regardless of the Vong or not.

I've heard things that it wasn't gonna be just ONE THING but lots of things lots of threats...Which i think is a bit more intersting if the Unknown Regions is multi threat since well....It's a big universe who knows how many empires there could be.

Also fun fact...Apparently the Vong were meant to be the ancient Sith, which of course just moved back to SWOTOR

I will say is that I don't necessary want NJO Redux for say a post Sequel Trilogy timeline per say I do think exploring the Unknown Regions should or at least could be a very interesting plot point for our ST hero's and post ST hero's as well, but maybe in a more Lucas like way.

 

I’d watch an animated series about the Unknown Regions and the various factions within it.

 

In my experience, this is mostly a fan thing. The notion that the Death Star was made to stop the Vong is never raised in the NJO itself, IIRC. The notion that the Empire in general could've stopped the Vong is raised - and it's a punchline almost every time (Destiny's Way has a particularly memorable takedown of it).

 

I still want my idea.....Star Wars Voyager...But with Rae Sloane and the Eclipse ;p

Well that's good at least

 

Might be a bit of an ask for them to make a show with nazis as the protagonists...

 

To boldly Empire were no Empire has gone before

 

Here's the thing with the whole "it was all for the Vong" justification. Does anyone really believe a war machine built to fight them would only have been used on them by Sidious?

Of course not. Plus, you need to train the troops. Even a planetkiller crew needs weapons practice and there's so much disloyalty across the galaxy....

 

...I really don't like that, and it smells like a retcon (Essential Guide to Warfare came out almost a decade after the NJO ended). I'm actually doing a re-read of the NJO right now (and considering making a post reflecting on it when I'm done) and the idea that the Empire could've beaten the Vong is repeatedly mocked (I'd honestly forgotten how often that happened - everyone remembers the Destiny's Way bit but it comes up more often than that) and the idea that the Empire was created to stop the Vong just makes no sense (not only did Palpatine not learn about the Vong until the events of Rogue Planet by which time his bid for galactic domination was well underway, it would make no real sense for him to keep knowledge of them secret if fighting them was his goal along - unify your people by giving them a Big Scary Enemy is, like Fascism 101 and "I alone can protect you from the monsters beyond the Rim" is a pretty good propaganda tool, especially if you have proof said monsters exist). It feels like people conflating Thrawn's motivations from Hand of Thrawn onward ("the galaxy must be unified under a strong ruler to protect it from external threats") with Palpatine and co.'s ("UNLIMITED POWER!") mixed with the persistent desire in parts of this fandom to try and whitewash or justify the Empire.

 

See that's how one would hope most logical people think...But once you go around the internet then you'll just see things reduced to "He was stopping the Vong" and never think of the other part.

 

And that's reason not to go traipsing across the Internet!