Timothy Zahn would love to write a book about Ben Skywalker in the Legacy era thread

I do have to give TJK credit for that. It poked fun at the Star Destroyer force trick

 

A "Zahn epic" is a contradiction in terms.

ROTFL!!

 

I'll take a Zahn book
But there is s stipulation.
He cannot have Mara(his little Mary sue) in the book. Which, as we all konw will never happen. Hell, he'd probably want to cut of his own hands before that happened.

 

Have you heard of an upcoming novel set in the Prequel era entitled Outbound Flight, perchance?

 

If one pretends TTT and HoT were never written, I guess.

 

This thread is predictably sad, and has gone beyond the point of logical arguments.

Although it may be the current fashion to bash Zahn constantly, I distinctly remember a time when he was the favorite, most consistently praised SW author out there (especially on these boards), and I for one, still think he did an amazing job restarting SW EU after SotME, giving us unique, fabulously interesting characters, and bringing much of the Bantam era EU together in HoT.

Also, I distinctly remember Leia taking quite an active roll, fighting with her lightsaber, orchestrating diplomatic coups (the Noghri), etc. etc, in Zahn's books. And wasn't the seen where Luke fights C'Baoth recently mentioned in the SW Insider as a best all time EU moment...

And let the screaming and gnashing of teeth resume.]






sidious618, I liked SQ.

 

Cool! More Zahn sounds good to me. I seem to be the only one who liked Survivor's Quest.

 

sidious618:

! More Zahn sounds good to me. I seem to be the only one who liked Survivor's Quest.

No, you're not the only one. I liked it too and I'm looking forward to reading Outbound Flight.

I would also welcome a book about Ben Skywalker.

 

Glad to see I'm not the only one who liked SQ. I thought it was a great Star Wars mystery with Luke and Mara. Which is high praise because I'm not a Mara fan yet I loved Zahn's interpertation of their marriage.

 

I could see a book about Ben when he's in his late 20s or 30s and he has to restart the Jedi order just as his father did (Luke being retired by this time and enjoying retirement).......but of course there would be no Mara like woman to want to kill him. That'd be TOO obvious!

I'm looking forward to Outbound Flight as well. Probably should reread Survivor's Quest though, to refresh my memory of that plot.

 

Some of you should be embarrased by the amount of vitriol you spew regarding Zahn and his fictional character. I mean, it's one thing to dislike the characters and the direction that (many authors) have taken them, but to actually sit there and bash and bash and bash...it actually is kind of sad.

Zahn's Thrawn Trilogy was excellent work, and the Hand of Thrawn duology was also very entertaining. I actually hated where some of the authors, especially KJA, took the Jedi and Luke in particular as far as power went. It was ridiculous, and I think that Zahn, albeit not in the best manner, did what he could to help rectify that. Luke should be powerful, there's no question there. But the rest of the Jedi, even students, were tossing around AT-STs with flicks of their wrists. Where does that take you, story-wise?

Mara is obviously Zahn's attempt to create his own mythic character in Star Wars, and while I do find that he focuses too much on her and makes her too...good, I can get over it because it's just a book and it doesn't affect me personally. Ultimately, Zahn's SW stories are for me among the most enjoyable. I look forward to his future SW books, and would not mind seeing him write a Skywalker family type story. I do agree that more Thrawn would be a mistake.

 

Ender Sai: Oh I love how much you hate Zahn. God you'd hate it if George RR Martin wrote stories! "Uncertain allegiances! Betrayl! Complex 2nd tier characters! Gah!"

Right on. The more they publish each year, the breezier the editing gets. Until it becoemsmore cost effective to just go for pulpfiction than novels with depth. For a couple authors' I have to say most SW books are that.

Tam: Only if Elaine Cunningham writes it.

Noooo!

JediStryker: Some of you should be embarrased by the amount of vitriol you spew regarding Zahn and his fictional character.

Gave up trying to say that last year. They gave me a funny look, like I was some extraterrestrial from an Incom UFO.

They don't actually understand, from an author's pov, my book is getting publicised 15yrs later! It's every author's aspiration, and Jade's a goldmine.

 

That's patently false, Shelley. Not only have you refused to back your claims up with evidence from the books, you've let your petty bitterness determine your perception.

You may dislike Zahn as a Star Wars writer, but I'd wonder if you're terribly familiar with too many good fantasy authors so that you can appreciate what a good writer he is, even if he doesn't bother putting the chaff with the wheat when referencing the EU. So far, kuzdu has pwn3d your ass to the point where you're going to need to pay a substantial sum of money to him just so you'll have something to sit on.

I'd like to see more Zahn, but I seem to be in a minority in that I finsihed Wraith Squadrom without so much as a chuckle (people told me it was humourous, I pointed to the Discworld) and I think Allston is a hack as are most of the Star Wars authors.

At least Zahn had an established and respected career before reviving interest in Star Wars.

"But liek teh Zhan is teh suxxx0rz and teh Mara is teh suxx0rz and this is liek an intelligent argument lolololol!!111!!~!!!one!"

There, I responded for most of you. How nice of me.

Dear lord, man, Luke was a cartoonish embarrasment. By chance, have you read HOT or are you uninspiringly regugitating the opinions of another? No? Perhaps bright and shiny objects capture and hold your attention for hours?

Let's think about what Luke does in the HOT - He (well, Zahn) reflects that Luke's power was so utterly, comtempibly molested by authors previously that Zahn decided to make him more like, you know, a Jedi we see in the films. Boo!

Excellence; I think it's actually more a case of a computer selecting random plot variables from a pool of 4, adding pretty lightsaber fluffery to distract people and publishing them. Oh well, I'll just have to pretend that Jon Snow is a Jedi.

E_S

E_S

 

You're not alone, Sai. I just read the Wraith trilogy and SOA for reading; I never laughed.

I found his humour pre-teen amateurish, and for Adumar, absolutely shocking. I don't understand how Phanan's demise was heartwrenching for some; Wraiths were dying every book. I was surprised with Madine, but that was in a day and time when I just read books, not fussed over their quality-monetary worth.

Good humour is Martin, yes. The sheer gall to say what he does so blatantly began a trend. There was good wit in his Hedge Knight TPB; I giggled my Lordly Sith a bit. The Coupling show is outrageous humour!

But Antilles tricking Janson and Hobbs into walking into a lift wall . . . requesting the sun to be shut off from annoyance . . . consoling Tainer's Sarkin rejection as a simulator run . . . those are corniness I'll never understand. The food is the same, but mouth taste buds all differ.

 

I'm afraid it's patently true, Ender_Sai.

Kind of like how people let their adoration of Mara and Zahn determine their perception?

He's a competent writer. No more. When it comes to SW, he's mediocre. Whether or not I'm familiar with good fantasy authors (and anyway, he's hard sci-fi, not fantasy) is irrelevant.

Hardly. Kudzu has owned none of my ass. Kudzu gave his/her opinions, I gave mine.

He didn't revive interest in anything. If anything, SW revived interest in him. He was chosen for the task of writing the first post-ROTJ stories, and he was darn lucky in that. Any half-decent sci-fi or fantasy writer would have done just as well, and the books would've sold like hotcakes.

The "Star Wars" logo on the cover of his books, along with the pics of the Big Three, were what made the books big sellers.

Why? The PT bashers sure aren't embarrassed by the amount of vitriol they spew regarding the PT and Lucas, on this board and elsewhere -- vitriol which far exceeds anything I've ever said about Zahn or Mara.

And if I said that about PT bashers, I'd get banned so quickly my head would spin.

It was mediocre work at best. Someone once described it as "250 pages of good SW entertainment...spread out over about a THOUSAND pages."

Yes, Zahn does have a penchant for going to the other extreme and rendering the Force nearly useless. And for every "rectification," he made ten more mistakes.

At which he failed miserably. She's just a garden variety Mary Sue/comic book kick-butt girl, with the requisite "drool queen" appearance (red hair, big bazoombas, tight black catsuits) and allegedly "witty" barbs that she tosses off even when it's highly inappropriate.

They may o

 

It's gotten off that path?

i think the NJO spiced things up with a more epic feel and a legitimate philosophical crisis that puts the Force and Jedi issues back at the center, rather than treating them as an afterthought or inconvenience, which is one of the big areas where Zahn went wrong.

also, looking at the Eu as a whole and not just the post-ROTJ EU, there's a lot of good stuff out there now in the PT era especially.

And wasn't the seen where Luke fights C'Baoth recently mentioned in the SW Insider as a best all time EU moment...

yes, because the house publishing organ of the Lucas empire is really objective about that sort of thing.

LET'S FOCUS ON THE TOPIC HERE! THIS ISN'T A BASHING ZAHN OR MARA JADE THREAD!

THE TOPIC IS SHOULD ZAHN WRITE A BEN SKYWALKER NOVEL IN THE LEGACY ERA!!!

i would agree that the Mara stuff is getting a little OT, but i think general discussion of Zahn's strengths and weaknesses as an EU writer are perfectly germane to the question of whether or not he should write a Ben Skywalker novel in the LOTF era.

i don't think he should, because i think he's a bad writer, or at the very least, that his writing style is a bad fit for the SW EU. i'm perfectly fine with the idea of a Ben Skywalker novel, just not a Zahn Ben Skywalker novel.

i would rather see Luceno, Stover, or Denning writing a Ben book, or even better, Ostrander and Duursema doing a Ben-focused comic.

Can you imagine how boring the NJO would have been if the Jedi were using the Force to fling asteroids into the Vong cruisers at OboRin and Lando's Folly?

it's not quite the power level of Jedi in Zahn that bothers me, and if you put a gun to my head i would rather see something closer to Zahn's power levels than KJA's (*shudders*).

the problem is that the Force and Jedi issues have a tendency to be sidelined in favor of more straight military sci-fi plotlines. stories that could happen in any generic sci-fi universe, in many respects.

So far, kuzdu has pwn3d your ass to the point where you're going to need to pay a substantial sum of money to him just so you'll have something to sit on.

why is this quote turning me on?

 

Good post, diz.

You scamp.

 

Shelley you realised your posting style is at best, fractious? You don't actually offer anything but "Yeah, but so and so is worse" and it takes dizfactor to make your arguments for you. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be rude, but you can look forward to a steady stream of logical floggins if you persist with this intractible style.

Again, you will owe kuzdu an enormous sum, if you want your derriere handed back to you.

Excellence; I believe the "Kettch" thing is meant to be the pinnacle of hilarity - much like those who think Wheel of Time is epic until you sneak a copy of "A Game of Thrones" before them.

Truly, ignorance is bliss. Warm blanket on a cold day bliss.

E_S

 

The Sai does have a valid point; many posters don't elaborate beyond a quick couple sentences, and it gets breezy. A good rebuttal must opine decently and with stellar humour, and don't inhibit yourself to mentioning Sadow; a Naga needs a saga. Might be a Massassi half-breed, but we're not racist here.

Okay, I'm greedy, right?

 

Ender_Sai posted:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'd like to see more Zahn, but I seem to be in a minority in that I finsihed Wraith Squadrom without so much as a chuckle (people told me it was humourous, I pointed to the Discworld) and I think Allston is a hack as are most of the Star Wars authors.

At least Zahn had an established and respected career before reviving interest in Star Wars.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


He didn't revive interest in anything. If anything, SW revived interest in him. He was chosen for the task of writing the first post-ROTJ stories, and he was darn lucky in that. Any half-decent sci-fi or fantasy writer would have done just as well, and the books would've sold like hotcakes.

The "Star Wars" logo on the cover of his books, along with the pics of the Big Three, were what made the books big sellers.

Back up there sweet cakes.... How can you say he didnt revive interest in Star Wars ??? pretty much all the other authors out there including GL himself with the Prequal trilogy have failed, I SAY FAILED to capture the Magic that is Star wars with the exception of Micahel Stackpole who while not using the main characters does quiet well with his own you are being biased, now while his original Thrawn trilogy was awesome, the thrawn duology was good but nothing like the first series and yes surviors Quest could of been better they are all still better then the KJA's out there who have these silly ideas of what jedi can do, like with the example of the jedi on Yavin beating up on AT-ST's and then using the force to move not just one but a whole fleet of Star Destroyers far away, when someone like Yoda who was arguably the most powerful jedi had to really conentrate on using the force just to lift Luke's X-wing out of the swamp.

 

Sweet Sansas, that was one sentence!

E_S

 

I've read all of Zahn's Star Wars novels. They are like a movie you don't want to pay to see, but you'll watch it for free when you get the chance. They were good at the time but nothing worth remembering. I haven't read any of his normal sci-fi work, so I can't really gauge his overall abilities as an author.
I'm not a fan of how Zahn writes Luke and how he interacts with his now darling wife Mara. Zahn seems to write Luke as indecisive, weak and unable to act when neccessary, which carried over to the first half of the njo series.

That's my opinion on the matter. I don't really care if yall agree or disagree with me. I come here to enjoy myself, not to have a verbal fight over something that doesn't really matter compared to real life issues.

 

These arguments have actually are making me think of reading no fiction books at all; and stick to non-fiction (which most of my books are anyway, mainly becuase you're agruing about something that really is of little importance. IT DOES NOT MATTER!

Yes, I'm disallusioned with all fiction books, whatever the author or genre. I don't care!

If anyone wants to try and get me back, try.......

STL

 

Though I think Zahn is a talented writer, and that without TTT the EU wouldn't be where it is, I don't think his style fits well into the Star Wars Universe. In my opinion, he's more geared towards the Hard Sci-fi element than towards the fantasy in space.

To me the Jedi and the force are the most important aspects of the GFFA. Without them all we have is Sci-fi that is undistiguishable from the rest of the chaff.

Give someone like Mr. Stover a chance to write a Ben Skywalker book. It would really help me to understand his character. It sees that he is great at getting inside of the character's heads.

 

Shelley the only thing that I can agree with you on is that Zhans work IMO is quite boring and yes at time overrated. Also that the PT does get to much bashing whe nit is clearly not deserving of it. However this is where we disagree. Mara.
Zhan may have created her but i do like her.
Always have and always will.
I first discoverd Mara from a comic book, and has liked her since.