True Hip-Hop:I Can't Be the Only One

I can't seem to find threads about Hip-Hop in this place, but I know I can't be the only Hip-Hop fan on these boards. Of course, I'm talking about Hip-Hop, the art form. Not "Crunk", not much "gangsta" like 50 Cent, but the artform in which lyricists are showcased. I'm talking Nas, Talib Kweli, Common, Tupac, Jay-Z, The Notorious B.I.G., Eric B. and Rakim, and others.

Anyone else a Hip-Hop fan?

If so, drop some of your favorite artists/albums/songs here, or artists/albums/songs you are anticipating.

 

I can't seem to find threads about Hip-Hop in this place, but I know I can't be the only Hip-Hop fan on these boards. Of course, I'm talking about Hip-Hop, the art form. Not "Crunk", not much "gangsta" like 50 Cent, but the artform in which lyricists are showcased. I'm talking Nas, Talib Kweli, Common, Tupac, Jay-Z, The Notorious B.I.G., Eric B. and Rakim, and others.

i would take issue with your definition of hip-hop as an art form. i think that defining it as an "artform in which lyricists are showcased" puts undue emphasis on the role of the MC, at the expense of the other three elements (or four, if you count beatboxing as the fifth element), especially the DJ. in general, mainstream popular MTV hip-hop has failed to adequately respect the DJ and placed too much emphasis on the MC. it all started with the DJ, after all.

that said, i love MCs too, and all the MC's you mentioned are artists in the highest sense of the word. i would just want to give props to DJs from Grandmaster Flash to Q*Bert as well.

 

Yeah, I see what you mean. Although it isn't really fair, lyrics are what I generally focus on when I listen to a track. That's just me, personally.

Anyways, you seem knowledgable about this, and quite the Hip-Hop purist. What are some of your personal favorites?

 

I'm a fan of all the artists you listed, but you also might want to dig into the real underground. Try anything produced by Dan the Automator (Dr. Octagon, Handsome Boy Modeling School, Deltron 3030) and anything on the Definitive Jux label, especially Cannibal Ox. Very dark and atmospheric stuff.

Dr. Octagon (aka Kool Keith) takes some getting used to. His lyrics are mostly surreal non-sequiters, and his rhyme scheme are really odd, but it makes sense after a while. Definitely worth the time.

And yes, if you're interested in DJing, QBert is a god. It's hard to find but he put out a mix tape called Demolition Pumpkin Squeeze Music which is amazing. He scratches anything and everything he can get his hands on, including a Spider-Man readalong record, Rush's "Tom Sawyer", and even a collection of Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat samples, all mixed in with a healthy collection of old school breaks. Great stuff.

 

Yeah, I see what you mean. Although it isn't really fair, lyrics are what I generally focus on when I listen to a track. That's just me, personally.

oh, that's fine, i just think it's important to recognize that hip-hop is more than just rapping, and also more than just the DJ/producer end, for all the people who jump too far in the other direction.

i think it's good that hip-hop is diverse, that you can have good music that's really lyrically complex and abstract and challenging on that level, and music that's just perfect for making you want to shake your ass, and both extremes can be done well and both are important to the future of the music. people have to remember that hip-hop started as party-rocking music, and its roots are with the people, and what makes people want to get down. it's good to be artistic, but hip-hop is a populist thing, and you don't want to get too elitist about the whole thing, either.

Anyways, you seem knowledgable about this,

thank you

and quite the Hip-Hop purist. What are some of your personal favorites?

well, first, i guess i wouldn't say that i'm a purist. i like to see genre-crossing stuff, too, with like UK garage or dancehall or illbient or jazz or whatever.

probably my personal favorite hip-hop album of all time is A Tribe Called Quest The Low End Theory. it's just perfect. it's everything hip-hop can and should be at its best. i like a lot of stuff that people listened to in my high school back in the early 90s in New York: Black Sheep, early Cypress Hill, EPMD, some LL, some PE, some NWA, etc. i need to listen to more Biz Markie and Slick Rick. i also think early Wu-Tang is genius.

right now, i'm listening to Coldcut's Journeys By DJ: 70 Minutes of Madness, which is off the ****ing hook. i like a lot of sample-driven instrumental and turntablist stuff like that, and Cut Chemist, DJ Shadow, Dan the Automator, Invisbl Skratch Piklz and more experimental and cross-genre stuff like Prefuse 73, Boom Bip, Four Tet, DJ Krush, and DJ Spooky (i'm actually reading DJ Spooky's book on sample culture and the future of media Rhythm Science right now). i listen to Madlib's Shades of Blue a lot, too. that's probably the area i listen to most often, but a lot of that is because it's easier to listen to at work.

one of the best albums i've bought in the past year is Buck 65's Talkin' Honky Blues. i've also been meaning to get more into the Def Jux stuff for a while, since i saw a bunch of them at Coachella last year. Mr. Lif is great, and El-P is just unreal on the mic live. i love Dizzee Rascal and Roots Manuva, and i like the Streets, and i want to get more into British hip-hop and garage (also, for that matter, Panjabi MC).

of course, i love and respect Tupac, Biggie, Nas, and Jay-Z. as far as more mainstream stuff goes, i think Missy Elliott is incapable of releasing a bad album at this point in her career (as long as she keeps working with Timbaland) and OutKast are a freaking brilliant combination of the whole Dirty South thing with experimentation, and i can never stop listening to Ludacris whenever he comes on the radio - his lyrics are really basic but he's just got great delivery, and i have to respect that.

what about you?

 

I'm a young one so I have less exposure with all of the Hip-Hop of the late 80s-early 90s but I have tried my best so far to get a fair look at earlier Hip-Hop. I still have a long way to go. As of right now, my favorite album is probably Nas:Illmatic or Jay-Z:The Blueprint. I also really like Jay-Z's reasonable doubt, Tupac's Me Against the World, both of Biggie's albums, and lots of others. Still, I admit that I'm not very widely exposed to Hip-Hop. Only a year ago, I was a total mainstream listener. I bought a few albums a year, and that was for whoever was getting the most commercial exposure (Nelly, Jay-Z, Usher, etc) Jay-Z's The Black Album in November of 2003 planted the seeds for my venture into true Hip-Hop, really talking about his legacy and making me want to see what he had done that was so great earlier. He also mentioned Talib Kweli and Common Sense on that album, making me look for some of their music.

Then, in February 2004, I bought Kanye West's The College Dropout. While it is not a perfect album, it is a personal classic of mine. This album actually showcased some good emcees on it: mos def, talib kweli, common, and kanye himself. After this album, I went on a Hip-Hop buying spree, though it's tough on my teenage budget.

My favorite artist is probably Nas, and his skills are mainly evidenced on Illmatic, It Was Written and I Am to a certain point, Stillmatic, and God's Son. I have a few new tracks of his forthcoming album Street's Disciple (Nov.30th) and they are fire. (Bridging the Gap, Disciple, Good Morning, The Thief's Theme and You Know My Style)

 

Oh yeah and also, I agree on Luda. His lyrics are simplistic but his flow kills tracks like that "Southern Fried Intro." I really liked "Stand Up" produced by Kanye West, simply because of Ludacris' flow.

Of course, Jay-Z is the G.O.A.T. of flow.

 

Deltron 3030 is an awesome album. It features one the best hip-hop producers ever - Dan the Automator and one of the greatest and severely underated MC's Del the Funkee Homosapian.

 

I can't stand hiphop There's really nothing to it, musically or otherwise.

 

I can't stand hiphop There's really nothing to it, musically or otherwise.

doesn't it seem overly simplistic to you to issue a blanket dismissal of an entire genre of music? especially one which has been around for decades, and has evolved to the point where practically everyone on the globe listens to it and virtually all serious music critics and other music aficionados take it very seriously as an art form?

if you don't like it, that's one thing (though i would suggest checking out a wider variety of the music than what you've likely been exposed to on the radio and MTV before you jump to that conclusion) but to say that it has no musical value just seems silly at this point in the game.

EDIT: I bought a few albums a year, and that was for whoever was getting the most commercial exposure (Nelly, Jay-Z, Usher, etc) Jay-Z's The Black Album in November of 2003 planted the seeds for my venture into true Hip-Hop, really talking about his legacy and making me want to see what he had done that was so great earlier. He also mentioned Talib Kweli and Common Sense on that album, making me look for some of their music.

that's one of the things i most respect about Jigga. it's a really good sign that the man who is one of the best MCs is also one of the most popular. he's got such unbelievable skills that he's got credibility with the underground and the mainstream, and he uses that position to give props to people who deserve them. that gets kids like you exposed to good hip-hop and that's good for the future of the music.

Then, in February 2004, I bought Kanye West's The College Dropout. While it is not a perfect album, it is a personal classic of mine. This album actually showcased some good emcees on it: mos def, talib kweli, common, and kanye himself. After this album, I went on a Hip-Hop buying spree, though it's tough on my teenage budget.

Kanye is a god. i really need to pick up The College Dropout.

Deltron 3030 is an awesome album. It features one the best hip-hop producers ever - Dan the Automator and one of the greatest and severely underated MC's Del the Funkee Homosapian.

Del owns. have you listened to Handsome Boy Modelling School So... How's Your Girl? at all? it's Dan the Automator and Prince Paul from De La Soul with guest spots from Del and a bunch of other cool people like Grand Puba and Sadat X from Brand Nubian, El-P, DJ Shadow, and people from other genres like Alec Empire from Atari Teenage Riot. it's a crazy album.

 

I can't stand hiphop There's really nothing to it, musically or otherwise.

doesn't it seem overly simplistic to you to issue a blanket dismissal of an entire genre of music? especially one which has been around for decades, and has evolved to the point where practically everyone on the globe listens to it and virtually all serious music critics and other music aficionados take it very seriously as an art form?

if you don't like it, that's one thing (though i would suggest checking out a wider variety of the music than what you've likely been exposed to on the radio and MTV before you jump to that conclusion) but to say that it has no musical value just seems silly at this point in the game.


Whoa there. I'm not basing my opinion on nothing. I listened to everything on the radio for almost all of high school, and a little until last year. I just lost interest in almost everything on it. I just found it too mushy, touchy-feely and all that. Of course, it was the only thing the radio station around my house played, so I had little choice until I was able to get a better radio, one that could pick up an alternative rock station, as well as two rock stations. I barely listen to the first station any more.

 

Del's cousin is the greatest rapper ever....

...Ice Cube

And "crunk" or "gangstarap" joints are as much hiphop as Nas or MF Doom tracks. I hate the terms "real" or "true" hiphop(sorry Krs One).

And sorry, but the Black Album is such a whinefest. "i'm'supposed to be number one on everybodys list", there's a line between bragging/boasting and whining. And ever since Nas released "Ether" Jay has done nothing but whine ("look i give to charity, i'm this i've done that etc etc"). And i still like him, "Allure" and "My First Song" are GREAT songs.

But i can't listen to the whole of Black Album, Reasonable Doubt and the Blueprint are both so much better it's not even funny.

My favorite album ever is "Death Certificate" by Ice Cube, imo it's the most powerful album ever - and not just in hiphop.

And Del is great (he's Cubes cousin, Cube got his "Wish my Brother George Was Here" album kickstarted). Deltron 3030 is pure genius, wouldn't put it above "George" but they're both amazing albums.

1. Ice Cube
2. Slick Rick
3. Nas

 

Ice Cube was great until he started to become more of a movie star than an MC / rapper or whatever you may choose to call it. This happened after his 2nd album (cant remember the name right now).

 

...his second album is Death Certificate (or Kill at Will EP if you want to be specific).

And he started acting as Doughboy in BoyzntheHood, he made "South Central" for that soundtrack and released "The Predator" afterwards wich might be his "hardest" album.

He changed when he had a wife and children and started focusing on lighter stuff (comedys). Lethal Injection is "softer" than his previous album but still great.

Afterwards, i agree his focus seems to be more on acting than rapping.

But there are very few rappers who can even dream of coming close to his catalogue (starting out with "Straight Outta Compton").

 

All of Cube's stuff pre-Predator stuff is what I meant - Amerikkka's Most Wanted, Kill at Will, and Death Certificte. By Predator (1992) he had lost most of his edge. It was okay, better than a lot of stuff out at the time, but not true classics like the ones I mentioned above, which is why it is a disappointment. Cube lost the "eye of the tiger" for lack of a better term. By 1992 he was married and well on his way to Hollywood success after his critically acclaimed performance in "Boyz". He had alreay achieved his wildest dreams at this point in the hip-hop world of being "the man", and I think that beginnig with Predator, music became more of a hobby that a way of life to him.

 

I can definitely see why you think he was whining. Of course,The Black Album is special to me because it made me look for other Hip-Hop beyond the radio. The Blueprint is one of my favorite albums of all time and Reasonable Doubt is another classic. Vol.1 was tight too, if you subtract that horrendous "What Girls Like" from it.

Also, I really feel that Nelly is not real Hip-Hop. Some gangsta is tight (Ice Cube, NWA) but it's really overused when ALL you talk about is guns and hoes (50 Cent, etc) and Crunk is nothing but a genius from the suburbs (Lil Jon) being smart enough to know that if you make hot beats and spit ignorance over it (bitch, hoe, etc), you'll sell like crazy.E

Has anyone else heard the new tracks off Nas' Street's Disciple. Four out of the five joints I've heard are blazing, and the other one is OK.

 

I love Rap and Hip-Hop. Quite a few of the artists that have been mentioned I like (Nas, Tupac, N.W.A., etc) but lately my favourite group is Jedi Mind Tricks. In fact within the past year I've really been listening to quite a bit of underground like JMT, Classified, and Canibus.

one of the best albums i've bought in the past year is Buck 65's Talkin' Honky Blues.

Wow you've heard of Buck 65?! It's surprising to me because he's Canadian and Canadian Hip-Hop artists never get exposed outside of Canada. There's lots of talent here.

Oh yeah and Buck doesn't like to call himself Hip-Hop. He's actually gone on record to say that he hates Hip-Hop. He considers his music to be folk music.

Has anyone else heard the new tracks off Nas' Street's Disciple. Four out of the five joints I've heard are blazing, and the other one is OK.

I've heard Star Wars and Thief's Theme. Good stuff.

that's one of the things i most respect about Jigga. it's a really good sign that the man who is one of the best MCs is also one of the most popular. he's got such unbelievable skills that he's got credibility with the underground and the mainstream, and he uses that position to give props to people who deserve them. that gets kids like you exposed to good hip-hop and that's good for the future of the music.

To be honest, I always thought Jay-Z was ok and a little overrated. But I have to say I'm impressed by what I've heard from The Black Album.

 

Thief's Theme is amazing.
Star Wars is great, but it might/might not be on the album.
You need to hear:
Bridging the Gap featuring Olu Dara(his dad)-the single
Disciple
Good Morning
You Know My Style-not up to par with the rest, but OK

 

I forgot:

Street's Disciple is coming November 30th. I'd advise everyone to give it a fair listen.

Also, The Black Album is nice and you should check it out. Some of the tracks (Change Clothes, Justify My Thug) are a bit weaker, but besides that, all of the tracks are solid and some are classic. (My First Song, 99 Problems, Lucifer, December 4th, P.S.A., Allure, What More Can I Say)

 

I have MAD LOVE for The Roots.

GET THAT ADRENALINE

 

Star Wars was on the re-issue of Illmatic, won't be on SD.

And Nelly is real hiphop no matter what Krs One says, the dude makes party music (good party music imo) and doesn't try to be anything he's not.

Is "Rappers Delight" not real hiphop?

I'd rather hear Nelly just talking about some girl with a nice body than some punk mc talking about shooting me up.

And crunk music goes waayy beyond lil Jon btw.

 

But Lil Jon is the one behind 90% of the Crunk artists out that blow up, or at least their singles.

 

He's behind most of (if not ALL) the artists you see on mtv & bet, that's true.

And he's definitely a big force in crunkmusic, i'm not denying that.

But it's the same as people thinking HipHop starts and ends with Eminem and his Shady Records. Or to go even further back, when people thought Run DMC was all there was to HipHop.

 

I always thought I hated hip-hop, but then I realised that I hated MTV hip-hop. The ones that don't get much(or any) airtime are leagues better. My personal favorites are The Roots. Mos Def, and Talib Kweli.

 

I am as well.
I like Snoop Dogg, Ice Cube, LL Cool J, 50 Cent, Dr Dre, Tupac, and Slim Shady.