Lit Unfinished Plots, Missing Links and the Storytelling Tapestry in New Canon - an Ongoing Compilation

A common misconception but if we go by the movies it's stated that while the clone army was ordered by ''Sifo-Dyas'' 10 years ago, the real Sifo-Dyas died before that. Hence one of the sith must've been faking being Sifo-Dyas. This is even more supported in the TCW episode The Lost One. I couldn't find the quote for it but in the episode they also speak about a second jedi being with ''Sifo-Dyas'' on Felucia (even tho he's already dead at this point ). The Sith killed Sifo-Dyas on Oba Diah, claimed to be him on a mission to Felucia while the other claimed to be another Jedi. They then faked fake Sifo-Dyas death on Felucia so no oen would look into his death. They choose Sifo-Dyas because he had a vision years prior while on the council about a great war and that they would need an army. He was then cast out of the council for his beliefs. Thus he was the perfect fall guy, no one would question why ''Sifo-Dyas'' would do this.

“He said he foresaw a great conflict, and that the Republic would need to raise an army. At the time the Council rejected those ideas.”

''The Pykes are not to be trusted. Sifo-Dyas died. But the Pykes were not the ones. No, no, the Pykes were not the reason. […] Someone powerful, Someone who wanted to be Sifo-Dyas. All is deception.''

''They say Master Sifo-Dyas placed an order for a clone army at the request of the senate almost ten years ago. I was under the impression he was killed before that''

 

Sifo-Dyas may have been killed, and impersonated - but he's more than just a fall guy - he was involved.

https://www.starwars.com/databank/sifo-dyas

After the other Jedi rejected his ideas and removed him from the council, he secretly contacted the Kaminoans and commissioned them to create a clone army, which he led the Kaminoans to believe was for the Republic. In doing so, Sifo-Dyas became an unwitting pawn of the Sith, who took over the project and hired the Pyke Syndicate to murder Sifo-Dyas on Oba Diah’s moon. A decade after Sifo-Dyas’ death, Obi-Wan Kenobi discovered the army he had commissioned, now ready for duty.

 

Also Dooku said he helped him in TWC so it's there that he hepled the sith in creating the clone army.

 

The SW.com is not always accurate and not a good source of information (Look at Hobbie Klivian's page and see for yourself) and @Fredrik Vallestrand and what point in TCW does he say that? I hope I don't sound rude but I would like to see a quote. The evidence in the movies directly state that Sifo-Dyas didn't order it.

 

Also the Kaminoans probably knew of Syfo-Dyas and as evidence here, he helped Dooku with creations of the clone army.

 

Well Obi-Wan also says immediately after ''you lie'' and Dooku is a known liar and manipulator. Dooku did lie once straight to his face when he claimed that there are no bounty hunters on Geonosis ''The geonosians don't trust them''. All the evidence collected from the very same episode and AOTC says otherwise to what Dooku is claiming. But I guess we gotta agree to disagree

 

Sure he lies to small details but he also told Kenobi the truth of the sith controlling the senate and it being corrupt and in TCW he also told him the truth of Syfo-Dyas his help in creating the clone army. But Obi wan just can't accept the truth of it all like he cound't accept Anakin's fall. Maybe we get another novel of Syfo-Dyas involvement and his plan to create the clone army with Dooku's help.

 

I imagine that Sifo Dyas was involved and at least communicated with the Kaminoans. Finalising the deal, payment and all though was the imposter or Dooku as frontman who was sent there. Sifo never met them in person.

I wonder if some Legends Plagueis novel cues for Sifo remain canon, wherein Sifo too was manipulated by Darth Sidious at the same time Dooku was. That would mask who really is responsible given Sifo may not have acted like he did without some subtle manipulations by Sidious/Palpatine or Dooku.

New canon with Dooku already on Serenno earlier, I imagine Sifo was too worried about his vision and the Councils denial of taking action based on it. So he contacted his longtime friend Dooku, the only one who would understand him. Dooku of course helped and promised funds and the like, leading Sifo to look for realistic options. He found the Kaminoans and considered clones but tasked Dooku with finding a prime gene donor to be cloned and funds. I bet Dooku was already under Palpatines thrall long before Maul got offed in TPM.

The question is, how did Sifo intend his ordered army to be? What did Dooku and Sidious change up?

Did Sifo want an army cloned from a Bounty Hunter? Or did he intend to clone himself even? Did Dooku and Sidious alter the deal towards Jango and kill Sifo because his plan would be more dangerous to them? Killing him was in a way risky. Investigations needed to be taken care of, a lot covered up and altered. They might not have done it simply because he was no longer needed. Manipulating him further is more Palpatines style and he may have been useful. Unless he had another vision that warned him of working with Dooku and Dookus allies and he became a problem. Thus he needed to be removed from the equation.

Also how could Sifo have intended to ever use and reveal his creation to the republic and council? The Republic would fear the Jedi creating a secret army unless in mortal danger and need of it. The Jedi would be against it strictly unless having no other choice as in AOTC. Would he ever have it revealed to them? Or only once the situation was as dire? Did he plan to reveal it at all or maybe intend to go rogue and command it himself as Revan once went Rogue in Legends?

So many story possibilities and hidden hints if you look closely at what is known and what isn't!

 

Whoever is right, I do hope for a continuation of Dooku: Jedi Lost since it ended just as it was getting really good. I wanna see what lead to him being capable of killing his best friend.

 

Dookus fall indeed is a major missing piece. The road is there and he is on the way but these stepping stones like the one you mentioned are indeed in need of deeper exploration. Likewise his TCW characterisations vs. his Jedi one. I like how Labyrinth of Evil, Yoda Dark Rendevouz and other TCW Legends books had him serve Sidious but with some good intentions still like recreating his own Jedi Order after ROTS which he never got to (Vader did it with Inquisitors kinda). De facto, Dark Rendevouz is one of the best TCW novels and should be important regarding Dooku's characterisation and motivations.

Dooku was not in love and tempted with loss like Anakin. Sidious needed other motivators for him. He was not seeking raw power and control either. Despite his own flaws, he would be hard to target with anything. He had his dark streaks but not enough yet. I imagine Sidious giving us a Vergere-worthy play to truly turn Dooku and make him sacrifice everyone he once held dear.

Dooku thought he can do it better than others and had his pride and arrogance. I imagine he wanted to learn what Sidious had to offer, to understand both sides of the Force and thus willingly went along, kinda like Luke in Dark Empire infiltrating the Dark Side. Convincing himself that he could leave at any time and stop if he chose so but.. he didn't ever lured on with more deeper knowledge and more layers to uncover never getting the full picture. That may be his catch. Only he had nobody to break him out of it.

When and how did Sidious and Dooku get in contact, at what point did he learn Sidious is Palpatine? How did he react and take it? Did he ever doubt and try to get out? Did he know about and meet Maul? Did he ever fight Maul in front of Palpatine? Or did he keep his cool like Mas Amedda and just went with it like, I knew you were familiar.

I hope they at least salvage some cues from the Plagueis novel about this.

 

RE: The crazy guy saying "Some who wanted to BE Sifo Diyas", I always just dismissed that as Filoni being Filoni and throwing out a nod to legends (although back then it was still semi-canon) even though Lucas' canon vision clearly being in contradiction to it.

A bit like the whole "I thought Maul was from Iridonia" line.

 

I never imagined that the whole Sifo-Dyas thing was even up for interpretation, it's right there in the movie The Sifo-Dyas character was even supposed to be originally just a fake alias for Sidious in the early drafts of AOTC (Sido-Dyas). Who else do you explain a supposed Sifo-Dyas ordering an army atleast a year after he died. Dooku or Sidious ordered Clone army in Sifo-Dyas name, but Sifo-Dyas himself didn't do it.

1. Sifo-Dyas apparently ordered an army 10 years ago.„They say Master Sifo-Dyas placed an order for a clone army at the request of the senate almost ten years ago.''
2. He died before that time so it couldn't have been him, someone faked being Sifo-Dyas. ''I was under the impression he was killed before that.”
3. Jango was hired by a man called Tyranus ''I was recruited by a man called Tyranus on one of the moons of Bogden''
4. Dooku is revealed as Tyranus at the end of the movie. ''Welcome home Lord Tyranus''
5.Therefore the Sith were the ones actually behind the clone army, Sifo-Dyas had nothing to do with it except be their fall guy.

 

To be fair, Obi-Wan being "under the impression" Sifo-Dyas died before a somewhat vague date isn't really confirmation. And TCW reveals Sifo went missing before the Clone Army was ordered, so Obi-Wan's impression of him is missing some facts.

 

Sifo-Dyas' timeline is largely confusing because the way The Clone Wars is dated. We really need a GALACTIC CALENDAR book with accurate dating. That might actually help a lot!

 

Biggest unfinished plot points IMO

1. The Crimson Dawn storyline.
2. The Sabine/Ahsoka/Thrawn and Ezra storyline.
3. Dooku becoming a sith.

 

Also, how Wat Tambor was freed.

 

I think it was simply a case of legal maneuvering on the Techno Union's part (plus Palpatine's influence on Republic courts behind the scenes). He is a civilian representative of a neutral organization who was caught up in unrelated fighting on Ryloth

 

Well since we're apparently using the starwars.com databank as evidence this is what senator Silman's databank page has to say

Dooku's page says this

 

That's suggested by Silman himself in the episode. It doesn't mean anyone actually did assume Sifo-Dyas's identity, just that he remembered (or mis-remembered, even?) someone wanting to. But it also leaves open the idea that Sifo-Dyas placed the order, then Dooku assumed his identity after his death for any further contact with the Kaminoans. He'd presumably need to do so in order to provide Jango Fett as the genetic template, which would have occurred after Sifo-Dyas's death.

 

Lets hit the brake and look at it from an angle most seem to overlook:

First the Facts:

A) Someone ordered the Clone Army and told Kaminoans that he is on the Jedi Council, that the Army is for the Jedi and Republic and that it will be paid for. This happens via holocomm and not in person.

B) The Kaminoans then meet Tyranus, who provides the genetic template with Jango Fett as well as arranges payment and anything else in person.

C) Kaminoans are businesspeople and would not start working without pay.

Now, without turning to speculation just yet, this does tell us the following most seem to overlook:

A) Whoever ordered the clone army was seen by Kaminoans as hologram or on a vidscreen at least. This would exclude Dooku given he introduces himself to them as Tyranus and neither Sifo nor Dooku.

Sidenote: Dooku didn't do it. That leaves, Sifo or Sidious as candidates! Unless the holoappearance and voice was faked of course to look like Sifo or they used a shapeshifter for impersonification via holocrom.

B) Why did Dooku, a public figure no less, introduce himself to them as Tyranus, his Sith name, and not as Dooku, known friend of Sifo who is able to pay for the army? Furthermore, we know the Order 66 contingency orders and chipped soldiers business was a secret add on deal. At what point did it happen? Initial order when Tyranus met them and paid? Or later before completion of the first batches? Not all Kaminoans were in on that add on deal. Also, how much did Kaminoans know of Sith and Sith plans indeed following willingly?

Sidenote: IF Sidious posed as Sifo himself, he would most likely tell the Kaminoans that he'd sent Tyranus to them and not use Dookus real name. Much like he introduced Maul to the Neimoidians of the Trade Federation in TPM. Therefore no need to use Dookus real name, nor his Serennian money, given Sidious would pay for it with Republic cash via secret channels himself. Unless Sifo Dyas was introduced by Dooku to Sidious hoping to sway him over to their side (Legends hinted at such in Plagueis novel and new canon recently tempted Rael Aveross with the same offer by Dooku in a novel which he declined). In that case, Sifo could still do the order himself hoping Dooku backs him up. Dooku may hope to get Sifo on his side should they ever together attempt to turn on Sidious. And Sidious obviously thought, friends or apprentices for Dooku are a bad idea and ordered Sifos assassination (much like later with Ventress in TCW or with Savage Opress!)

C) Had Sifo known Kaminoans as businesspeople, he would have had to think about how to pay for the army. Given he would keep the order secret from Jedi and Republic, his only other option is his rich friend Dooku. Which is most likely how Dooku learned of the idea, visions and contacted his Master for instructions.

Sidenote: How much of Sifos vision and subsequent placing the order, if he did it himself, was natural via the Force and how much manipulated by Plagueis or Palpatine? Did they lead him on to do it for them? Much like Palpatine tortured Anakin with visions of Padmés death?

 

Related but different questions:

I need lists of the following:

-canon Jedi Masters of which we do not know which Padawan(s) they trained to get the rank of Master
-canon Jedi (any rank) of which we do not know who their Master was

Who was Sifo Dyas apprentice so he could become a Master? Or which Jedi may fit personality/skillwise into the lineage of Sifos master, Sifo and then?
Can in new canon a Jedi become a Master without training a Padawan?
Did Qui Gon train a Padawan before Obi Wan and if so, who?
Likewise for others!

With a lot of Legends Jedi not recanonised... which could make a return and which are impossible given constellations have changed?

 

@ColeFardreamer

Did you already list Imperial Remnants as part of the unfinished plot threads-and by Imperial Remnants I mean ones that don't become the First Order.

Spoiler

Like whatever group Herzog is running in the Mandalorian

 

I didn't list them yet, alongside other stuff from Aftermath books, the Uprising cellphone game and now Mandalorian. But good add, do the list for me please!

 

Probably has already been stated, but the fate of Inquisitors or any of the children they were able to collect for Project Harvester before it was stopped.

 

So Storygroup member Matt Martin confirmed, Sifo Dyas did order the army himself as per new canon, but there is a lot more to the story that has yet to be told. So no Sith ordering the army pretending to be him, that much has been settled now! Sith still can pretend to be him later on for add ons to the deal though.