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Amph Unnessesary nudity and lingerie images in comic books

Discussion in 'Archive: SF&F: Books and Comics' started by JediOverlord, Mar 18, 2007.

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  1. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Wertham's primary target was the horror comics from EC Comics though, not superheroes; though they also featured. The irony here is, the Comics Code that his action effectively created, also enshrined the superhero genre as the sole survivor while all others died for being too violent: War, westerns, crime - they all vanished. When you complain about the prevalence of superheroes, their domination of the industry and the perception that "comics = superheroes", you can look to Wertham as a major cause of that.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fredric_Wertham

    Equally, now, the argument that can be made is to ask what makes comics so much worse than the likes of MTV or the various teen mags that tell girls how to get the most of their boyfriend in bed? Sex and tittilation is quite widespread.
     
  2. Duragizer

    Duragizer Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 23, 2009
    I'm not complaining about superheroes. I'm complaining about the sexuality and violence prevalent in their comic books.

    No worse. It's all pretty lowbrow and sleazy IMO.
     
  3. MattDoc

    MattDoc Jedi Knight star 3

    Registered:
    Dec 10, 2009
    Naked? no. But just about all of the classic super heroes all wear skin tight outfits. That's true for both men and women. I don't think this is a new trend in comics, nor is it really a problem. The comics I was reading 20 years ago all had females wearing tight, skimpy outfits. The difference now is that the artists are better at more realistic representations of the human form. That, and I think they are just plain able to get away with more.

    Compare what is allowed on prime time TV now vs 20 or 30 years ago. Same deal.
     
  4. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    The problem is though that superheroes are characters who solve problems with violence! You only have to look at the popularity of Jack Bauer to see why people like the idea of a superhero.
     
  5. Duragizer

    Duragizer Jedi Master star 4

    Registered:
    Apr 23, 2009
    The gore should be toned down, though.
     
  6. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2006
    The fact is that comic books are no longer targeted at pre-teens. They are aimed at long time readers who tend to range from the late teens to mid-30s. That parents haven't gotten hip to that yet is not the fault of the industry, or that parents for whatever reason feel they shouldn't check out what their kids are reading. There's also the tip off that comic books have been spawning movies and television shows that are targeted at older audiences than Saturday morning cartoon shows for at least 20 years now should be a big tip off too. All the 90s Batman movies were rated PG13, Batman Begins and The Dark Knight the same. Superman Returns was also PG13. Batman TAS and Superman TAS were groundbreaking in that they were far more maturely written and depicted than anyone expected in their time. The follow up series Justice League and Justice League Unlimited were likewise so mature. TMNT went from being a goofy cartoon show to a live action movie with swear words and carrying much more of the tone of the original Mirage comics than the TV show until the gradual decline of the series carried on a more childish tone which took over in TMNTIII. Which brings us to the 2003 series which was much more maturely handled than the previous series. And that led to a CGI movie that was much more adult oriented and carried the tone of the first TMNT movie.

    Every comics movie that's come out since X-Men has been PG13 or higher.

    If the media adaptations of these characters aren't a hint that the comics themselves have a different age group they are aimed at it's not a problem of the comics themselves. It's that young kids aren't reading comics and haven't been for quite some time. It's hard to find a place that carries much in the way of comic books anymore outside of an actual comic shop. The producers of comic books would be remiss to ignore their audience, and their audience is looking for more mature stories. That's inevitably going to involve a bit more graphic violence and sexuality than they would if they were still aiming at a target audience of 10 year olds like they were in the 50s, 60s, 70s and early 80s. That's changed, and when The Dark Knight Returns came out it made people realize that comic books can be a serious medium for storytelling. Both inside and outside the industry. So the writers have been taking their books more seriously for years. It really started with Denny O'Neal in the 70s and snowballed from there.

    Besides, if you're complaining about gore in mainstream comics that don't have a "suggested for mature readers" tag on them.... I suggest you go take a look at some manga out there. Even the most maturely aimed comic books rarely have as much graphic gore as manga. You don't often see exploding heads with brains and eye balls and blood in Vertigo or Marvels Knights like you do in Fist of the North Star or something like that.
     
  7. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Has anyone here read 2000AD?
     
  8. PeteTB

    PeteTB Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2002
    I really think this kind of topic is sad. Like so many other people that have posted before, comics have grown past kids/pre-teens. Adults that want mature topics and non-childish story line are owed them. I didn't want to saw mature story lines because that leads people to believe they will be adult mangna or porn comics.
     
  9. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Actually read any MR rated stories? Or do you also avoid all 15 and 18 rated movies because they're deemed to be porn too?
     
  10. PeteTB

    PeteTB Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2002
    I think you mis-read my post or I was unclear.
    I didn't say I don't read them. I've read a few - I like Hack/Slash, not really mature, The Killer is a good one. I've also got a few older porn comics - Threshold, Exposure, and some other stuff by Al Rio.

    EDIT: Found the mistake - I wanted to write: "I didn't want to say mature story lines . . ." That lead you to thinking I don't read them and I have really bad grammar.
     
  11. Darth-Lando

    Darth-Lando Jedi Grand Master star 6

    Registered:
    Aug 12, 2002
    The 2nd Fantastic Four movie was only PG but I believe that's the only exception.
     
  12. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    Yet I think you've missed the point I was making, namely that there is far more to a story that has a mature readers tag than it simply being porn. For example Bryan Talbot's A Tale Of One Bad Rat is classed as Mature Readers because it addresses the issue of child abuse, yet there's nothing pornographic in it - it's due to the horrific element instead.
     
  13. Dawud786

    Dawud786 Jedi Grand Master star 5

    Registered:
    Dec 28, 2006
    Yeah, but see, that movie doesn't exist to me. I never saw it. It's not on my radar. The recent TMNT movie was PG too, but that's almost not a comics movie because it seems to be more rooted in the cartoon show and the old movies than being an adaptation of the Mirage Comics characters. Which I'd love to see, PG13 or R TMNT doing it Mirage style. Unfortunately, the chances were always slim of that happening and with Nickelodeon now owning all things TMNT those chances have dropped to zip.
     
  14. PeteTB

    PeteTB Jedi Youngling

    Registered:
    Apr 17, 2002
    Yeah, I got your point. Like I said before, I was unclear in my original post. Is A Tale of One Bad Rat good? Can I find it in TPB?
     
  15. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    You should be able to quite easily, it was recently re-printed.

    I just dislike the notion that a mature readers tag = sex, violence and swearing only. There's some topics which, if approached properly, have to be so tagged.

    But yeah, it's easy to go off-track with text discussions.
     
  16. The2ndQuest

    The2ndQuest Tri-Mod With a Mouth star 10 Staff Member Manager

    Registered:
    Jan 27, 2000
    What trade did that happen in NA? I've only read the first two volumes of NA so far (I'll eventually be reading the others one day) but I follow A:TI monthly and was curious as to where that originated.
     
  17. Jedi Ben

    Jedi Ben Chosen One star 8

    Registered:
    Jul 19, 1999
    It would be Vol 7 The Trust TPB Quest.
     
  18. timmoishere

    timmoishere Force Ghost star 6

    Registered:
    Jun 2, 2007
    "Unnecessary" and "nudity" do not belong in the same sentence.
     
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