Use of the word "retarded" as a put down.

That's not what I was trying to say, Bob. I think that calling another user a retard or retarded is a flame because it's synonomous with calling them stupid, which is a flame in most cases, not because it's derogatory to the mentally handicapped.

 

FamousAmos posted on 4/6/05 6:34pm

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That's not what I was trying to say, Bob. I think that calling another user a retard or retarded is a flame because it's synonomous with calling them stupid, which is a flame in most cases, not because it's derogatory to the mentally handicapped. [face_happy]
[hr][/blockquote]

But what I'm saying is that in most places and with most people "retarded" is still commonly used in describing handicapped individuals, just like "gay" can mean happy but in most cases people use it to refer to homosexuals. We don't allow people to call other users gay because it is derogatory towards homosexuals because it's used with a negative connotation. Similarly, we don't allow users to call non-sentient objects gay, like "That movie was so gay". "That movie was so stupid" is perfectly valid, but switching out "stupid" for "gay" makes it bad.

Why is it any different for "retarded"? Not only is it associating the word, which again is still commonly used in describing handicapped individuals, with a general negative, but it's not even an justified or appropriate use of the definition of the word when not referring to handicapped individuals. If a film is the full 121 minutes the newspaper said it would be, and it wasn't sitting on a shelf for six months before getting to the theaters, how could it possibly be retarded in the non-handicapped sense?

Since it doesn't fit the "slowing down or hindering of progress, or a delay" couldn't one infer that the speaker was using the word in relation to the disabled?

I just don't think we'd be having this argument if someone was going around saying "Man, my TV is acting so Mexican right now" or "This class I'm taking is so autistic!"

 

It may not be deemed "offensive" by a young'n but I'll tell you, I would've gotten detention in school if I had used it. and if my child uses it, he is grounded.

And why, if it was a "banned" word years ago, is it not now? Are there NO moderators left around from that time period that can answer the question?

Throw a few curse words around, who cares, talk about porn, *yawn*. Call me a white trash redneck ho, pshaw. And this is not about being PC, good doG, get over yourselves.

You don't think it's offensive, get off your butts and go volunteer at a home for the mentally handicapped. I bet you'll never say the word again, in any form.

 

Yeah, you're more than likely right. Of course the word is a put down, but I'm not going to go as far as grounding any kid I might ever have for saying it. Heck, I say it from time to time when describing a situation, but not to put down someone. It's a put down, yes, but I don't see it as being any kind of extremely offensive one.

 

//sigh

It's symptomatic of a generation that is unable to be able to deal with even the slightest hurt feeling.

Again, people use adjectives all the time to describe stupid behavior, but no one but an absolute boneheaded moron would use the term to make fun of a mentally disabled individual in their presence.

Come on, people.

 

But what I'm saying is that in most places and with most people "retarded" is still commonly used in describing handicapped individuals

But it's not. It's come to be seen as so derogatory, that it's almost never used to describe someone who really is retarded. It has taken on a whole new vernacular meaning.

It may not be deemed "offensive" by a young'n but I'll tell you, I would've gotten detention in school if I had used it. and if my child uses it, he is grounded.

Different people have different standards on things. My mother can't stand the phrase "this sucks" but she'll laugh along with anyone else if you swear up a storm. If we're going to start catering to everyone's personal standards of decency (and we won't be, we'd have to conform to the strictest standards we find just to keep the most easily offended among us happy), then I should like all jokes pertaining to alcoholism, colorblindness, and white people banned from the JC as outlined in my previous post.

Amazing.

 

Just as a note, while pointing out that I have no real feelings either way:

My mother is a pediatrician who works with kids who are developmentally disabled. She refers to those of them that are retarded as retarded.

Anyone claiming that it's been mostly replaced by the actual people who use it most ought to think about that.

 

But it's not. It's come to be seen as so derogatory, that it's almost never used to describe someone who really is retarded. It has taken on a whole new vernacular meaning.

Maybe where you live. It's been commonly used by my peers and adults around me my entire 21 years. Walk down any school hall and listen to kids snigger about the retard in their lunch period. They never call someone that to their face, of course but even my parents often talk about the Richards' retarded daughter or the retard class at school. To reconfirm what Firke said, as someone who has worked in a high school environment, I know that there were special ed teachers at my school who often referred to their students as retards. I'm not saying it's not PC, and that there are people out there who aren't trying to change it, but it's far from eliminated from the popular or professional vernacular.

 

Maybe where you live. It's been commonly used by my peers and adults around me my entire 21 years. Walk down any school hall and listen to kids snigger about the retard in their lunch period.

I think the sniggering indicates that they only do it to be derisive and derogatory when talking about them.

They never call someone that to their face

I think that's the crux of the argument. People will use it under circumstances of a particular comfort-level, which I think the JC qualifies as. (Seriously, that sentence makes sense, I'm just really tired). Using it among friends, as a throwaway comment that had no thought behind it cannot be offensive. Or at the very least, because I am willing to grant that people will find it offensive, it is not offensive enough that it warrants wasting the mods' time to edit it.

Also, something else I meant to reply to before regarding the prior ruling about "retarded" not being allowed. If Night was referring to what I think he was, the compromise, at the time, was to edit "retarded" out of thread titles, but not posts, as it was more visible in a title. However, there has been significant turnover and who knows what rules are still rules any more.

Amazing.

 

AmazingB posted on 4/6/05 8:48pm

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I think the sniggering indicates that they only do it to be derisive and derogatory when talking about them.

[i]They never call someone that to their face[/i]

I think that's the crux of the argument. People will use it under circumstances of a particular comfort-level, which I think the JC qualifies as. (Seriously, that sentence makes sense, I'm just really tired). Using it among friends, as a throwaway comment that had no thought behind it cannot be offensive. Or at the very least, because I am willing to grant that people will find it offensive, it is not offensive enough that it warrants wasting the mods' time to edit it. [hr][/blockquote]

You're just proving my point right there, though. The term is something some people use to describe something that is worthy of derisive and derogatory and derogatory comments. This creates a mental association, every time someone uses the term "retarded" out of context. Imagine this mental conversation:
[i]
Something is being called retarded? That means it's bad! I just met what could be called a retarded person? I have no predjudice towards this person.[/i]

Doesn't seem very likely, huh? This is the exact same reasoning used in banning "gay" as a derogatory term. Assigning excessively negative connotations to things that are out of the ordinary disassociates the connections these words have to human beings. Again, I don't think we'd be having this conversation if the phrase in contention was something like "Man, that test was so Jewish!" or "Sin City was totally autistic!". Retarded, as defined on the second page, has absolutely zero meaning in the above context, just like the other words.


If enough people began using "autistic" as a derogatory phrase don't you think a social stigma would form around that word as well and they'd being using something else?

 

Retarded, as defined on the second page, has absolutely zero meaning in the above context, just like the other words.

Not a dictionary definition, no, but it does have a connotation of 'stupid' that's really unrelated to people with mental handicaps. If I say "This thread is retarded", I'm saying that this thread is stupid, and I'm not saying anything about the handicapped when I do so. On the other hand, if I say "This thread is gay", there is no other connotation there that could be applied, so it's being used to be derogatory to homosexuals. There's a difference.

 

Not a dictionary definition, no, but it does have a connotation of 'stupid' that's really unrelated to people with mental handicaps. If I say "This thread is retarded", I'm saying that this thread is stupid, and I'm not saying anything about the handicapped when I do so. On the other hand, if I say "This thread is gay", there is no other connotation there that could be applied, so it's being used to be derogatory to homosexuals. There's a difference.

Yay, that is my thoughts, i just for some reason didn't say that.

 

And as I said before - you don't call the mentally handicapped -retarded.
That is seen as an insult to the highest degree.

Using it to mean stupid is common and in no way insults the mentally handicapped whom the term should NOT be used for anymore.

 

FamousAmos posted on 4/7/05 8:53am

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[i]Retarded, as defined on the second page, has absolutely zero meaning in the above context, just like the other words. [/i]

Not a dictionary definition, no, but it does have a connotation of 'stupid' that's really unrelated to people with mental handicaps. If I say "This thread is retarded", I'm saying that this thread is stupid, and I'm not saying anything about the handicapped when I do so. On the other hand, if I say "This thread is gay", there is no other connotation there that could be applied, so it's being used to be derogatory to homosexuals. There's a difference. [face_happy]
[hr][/blockquote]

But that doesn't make any sense. When confronted about this earlier people pointed towards the dictionary definition to say that "retarded" used in the context of calling a non-sentient object a name was talking about a slow or delayed reaction. Obviously that doesn't fit in very many contexts in which the word is used. When you say "This thread is retarded" you aren't saying "This thread is unfinished or unnaturally delayed". You're saying it's stupid. What I'm saying is, through process of elimination, since the "stupid" connotation doesn't fit with "To cause to move or proceed slowly; delay or impede" then it must be referring to the most common usage of the word, the one most people will recognize and associate with the words retarded; that being the mentally handicapped. You can't say it's unrelated because it IS related. I'll get into that below.

You say you understand why gay cannot be allowed, that it's "derogatory to homosexuals". Obviously the person doesn't mean "happy or joyful" when they use the word. They're using "gay" as a catch-all negative term. The same is being done with "retarded". A minority group of perceived inferior status is being associated with a negative connotation. It's dehumanizing.
[blockquote][link=http://boards.theforce.net/user.asp?usr=GIMER][b]GIMER[/b][/link] [b]posted on 4/7/05 10:07am[/b][hr] And as I said before - you don't call the mentally handicapped -retarded.
That is seen as an insult to the highest degree.

Using it to mean stupid is common and in no way insults the mentally handicapped whom the term should NOT be used for anymore.
[hr][/blockquote]

I'm afraid you are wrong on this. I did a bit of research, because I wasn't as convicned as some of you were that "retarded" has passed out of the professional vernacular. I was right.

The following uses of the word "retarded" as applicable towards mentally handicapped people can be found on the American Medical Association website:

Sept. 27, 2004 - [link=http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2004/09/27/edsa0927.htm]Death penalty for minors: Cruel and unusual[/link]

March 14, 2005 - [link=http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2005/03/14/prca0314.htm]Good Samaritan law shields California doctor from liability[/link]

Oct. 11, 2004 - [link=http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2004/10/11/prca1011.htm]Judge: Mega-verdict spawned by passion[/link]

July 1, 2002 - [link=http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2002/07/01/prca0701.htm]Limited organ supply raises allocation concerns[/link]

April 17, 2000 - [link=http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2000/04/17/hlsa0417.htm]Coercion or caring?[/link]


So no, the word is still out there and is still commonly used to refer to the mentally handicapped.


Just because a word has been appropriated to mean something doesn't mean we should encourage it. Again, this is the exact same reasoning behind the use of the word "gay" in a negative way. Unless my term paper has a sexual orientation and finds other term papers of the same orientation to be attractive, I don't think it's fair to homosexuals to refer to it as "gay". Similarly, unless a film is either too short by 20 minutes or has a mental handicap, I don't think we should be referring to it as retarded. If a film or paper is bad, say bad. If you don't

 

Not a dictionary definition, no, but it does have a connotation of 'stupid' that's really unrelated to people with mental handicaps. If I say "This thread is retarded", I'm saying that this thread is stupid, and I'm not saying anything about the handicapped when I do so. On the other hand, if I say "This thread is gay", there is no other connotation there that could be applied, so it's being used to be derogatory to homosexuals. There's a difference.

I do not see the difference.

If I say 'This thread is retarded,' I'm saying that it's stupid. I'm using 'retarded' as a negative word.

If I say, 'This thread is gay,' I'm also saying it's stupid. I'm using 'gay' as a negative word.

The point is, it advances an idea that there is something fundamentally wrong with retarded or gay people. It sets them apart from the 'rest of us,' and it says to them 'we hate you so much that we use something that applies to you as an insult!'

If I call someone who is a Jew a Jew, it is not nessesarily an insult. But if I started saying 'You stupid Jew!' to people not Jewish, but I was using that word as a word meaning 'idiot' or 'stupid,' it would be insulting to Jewish people.

However, this does not mean I think that the usage should be 'banned' from the JC. I'm a big fan of letting people be stupid who want to be stupid. You want to out yourself as a person who calls things 'gay' to denote them as bad? Okay, that's fine, but I'm not responding to your thread, and I recognise that your level of intelligence is quite low.

However, if using 'gay' as an insult term is not allowed, then neither should 'retarded.'

 

What if I have a stupid kid one day?!?

 

Why do people lately have to drag gay into every debate? Maybe gay people are tired of being everyone's damn example.

 

Strilo, it comes into the debate because it is the most readily comparable analogy. It doesn't matter if gay people are sick of it, it works as an analogy.

 

What Eagle said. Can you name any other minority group that has become synonymous with "bad" in common slang?

 

You don't think it's offensive, get off your butts and go volunteer at a home for the mentally handicapped. I bet you'll never say the word again, in any form.

You would have lost that bet. I volunteer every day at my school with mentally handicapped children. I've taken groups of them to church functions. Both of my parents work in the medical field at nursing homes, and I'm constantly around victims of Alzheimer's and other mental illnesses.

Yet I still use the word "retarded" in my vocabulary, mostly when I'm joking around with a friend or something. For example...

BILLY: "Dude, Yaddle is the best Jedi ever!!"
Me: "What, are you retarded?"
*BILLY and I share a laugh*

Why do I use still use it? Because the thought of using the term "retarded" never even enters my mind when I'm around mentally ill people. Even if one of them said Yaddle was the best Jedi ever, I would simply laugh alongside them-- not at them, mind you-- and say "Yeah, she is pretty good, isn't she?"

Here, let me give you a comparison. Without using gay people.

Say my friend Billy is running around my house naked with his underwear on his head. I might laugh and say something to the effect of "Dude, you're acting like you're 2 years old!"

Now, say I'm in the company of an actual 2 year-old. The thought of using the phrase "acting like you're 2 years old" won't even enter my mind. The kid is actually two years old. Even if he's running around my house naked with his underwear on his head, I would probably just laugh and let him have his fun.


So yeah, I don't say the word when I'm actually around mentally handicapped people. But they're people, and I don't do it out of respect for them. Not for someone like yourself who thinks it's wrong just because you assume the word is always used immorally.

 

But why use the word at all? IT's definition does not fit the context. Basically you're saying your friend's stupid behavior is acting like what you might think a mentally retarded person might act like. That's an unfair use of the word. Saying you consider it to mean "stupid" doesn't change anything. It's an active word choice. You could just say stupid. Instead you choose to use retarded. If you think that doesn't mean anything then why do you avoid using the word when you're volunteering with your special ed class? Why do you feel uncomfortable using the same words around them as you do with your friends? If it's not associated with actual mental retardation then there should be no problem using it around everyone, then mentally handicapped included, right? The answer, obviously, is you know that it's wrong.

 

If you think that doesn't mean anything then why do you avoid using the word when you're volunteering with your special ed class? Why do you feel uncomfortable using the same words around them as you do with your friends? If it's not associated with actual mental retardation then there should be no problem using it around everyone, then mentally handicapped included, right? The answer, obviously, is you know that it's wrong.

Or I'm using it in jest. I'm not going to walk up to a garbage man and start saying that he has no future. But if one of my friends is doing something stupid, I might say something like "Keep it up and you'll end up a garbage man."

Now, garbage men are essential to society-- they actually get payed very well, and I respect them tremendously. I'm joking around with my friend, pointing out something that isn't exactly politically correct in reference to him.

Same thing here. I'm not using the word around mentally handicapped people because I respect them as human beings. I will use the word joking around with friends, pointing out something that isn't exactly politically correct in reference to one of them.

Because Political Correctness is a bunch of bull, in my honest opinion. It's impossible to please everyone in the world, and circumscribing our vocabulary to please a specific group of people is bologna. What groups deserve such preferential treatment? Who's to say? We'd have to stop using words all together to please them all. But that would mean we'd have to use sign language, and then the deaf might get angry.

You want to know how to moderate these words that might not be politically correct? Look at their context. If it's malicious, if its purpose is to offend others, then it's wrong. Just as wrong as calling someone a "big stupid idiot!". If it's in reference to an inanimate object, then it ought to be okay. If someone takes offense, then it's really their problem. I'm sorry, but I'm not going to refer to the color of Darth Vader's helmet as "African-American". His helmet is freakin' black.

 

I agree with the above post by KenKenobi, although it was a bit retarded...and partially *removed*.

Bob edit: We aren't allowed to use that word to describe negative feelings.

 

Would the movie, "The Black Hole" have to be renamed "The Pigmentally Challenged Hole" to be PC?

 

Greetings, blokes.

Horax... "Pigmentally Challenged" would indicate there's something wrong with one's pigment, so that could still be construed as negative.

To be uber-safe, I say we use "The #000000 Hole."

That way *nobody* can get offended! Unless there's a cranky hex editor somewhere...

Is a geek,
Yours Truly