Vader and Pain

An interesting question was posed to me this afternoon. It was said to me that burn victims feel the pain for the rest of their lives, and that Anakin (being burned over so much of what was left of his body) could not have rested serenely while the suit and helmet were placed upon him. We see his eyes open widely as the mask comes down, but he seems neither to be in pain nor is he screaming as when he is first being rebuilt.

Furthermore, as a practical matter, Vader would have been no use to the Emperor if he were constantly struggling with pain. He would have been unable to focus and concentrate on the Emperor's tasks set for him.

So the question is this: Did the Emperor somehow rob Vader of the ability to feel pain? Would it have been more fitting of Palpatine's sadistic nature to let Vader continue to feel as much pain as possible, or to rob him of all human feeling, including the ability to feel pain?

"A thought? Anyone."

DP

 

Well throughout the OT we hear Vader scream when he was hit with a lightsaber and when his hand was cut off. I believe he still feels pain.

Now, how do you know the Emperor didn't treat Anakin before putting the suit on? You know, a little dose of the bacta. Or for that matter, how do you know the suit isn't a bacta chamber itself? Remember in RotJ when see Anakin again, but the burns on his face are gone? That would leave most to believe that he was healed within the time he had the suit on.

So, I believe the suit made it bearable for him to function in life without feeling the pain from his burns.

 

Maybe its because he is strong in the force. Why can't he use the force to soothe his pain? Mara Jade Skywalker was able to use the force to repress a deadly disease that the vong infected her with. It was a disease so deadly that she is the only one that didn't die. However she was weakened greatly, and often had to rest. This could also be why in eps 4,5,6 Vader didn't seem to have as much vigor....that and he was mostly machine.

Also maybe he cant feel the pain because all his nerves are damaged....just a thought.

 

I think its actually quite the opposite.

I think Vader's pain fuels his embrace of the darkside.

He has a falling out with both his wife and his mentor and the entire jedi order--everyone he ever cared about betrays him, and to top it off, not only has his lost all of his limbs and most of his skin, thus depriving him of much of the power he so desperately sought, but he ends up killing the very person he went over the edge for, Padme. Think about that. Not only is he probably in very intense physical agony for most of his life, but he now bears the much heavier burden of the emotional scarring that accompanied his transformation as well. His fears have now transformed into anger and they are fuelled by his pain, and hence his suffering as a prisoner of the darkside, for which he has no escape from. Now we see him in the OT--blowing up planets, choking officers left and right, invading starcruisers and shooting down Rebels. He is a man haunted by his pain and consumed with anger--anger either subconsciously or consciously aimed at himself and projected outward. After what he does to Padme in ROTS, and his fate-sealing reaction of horror after being encased in the suit, how could he not be filled with self-contempt? Anger is a byproduct of pain.

The only relief from his pain of course is love--the love that at one time had kept him good. Once he finds out Luke is his son he begins feeling again, and the hurt begins to fade away--ultimately it is the very thing that releases him from his pain. The darkside itself is pain and suffering

 

This is an extremely insightful reply! I, too, am of the opinion that somehow Vader uses the pain to make him stronger, to make him be the Dark Lord we see in the original trilogy. I do see how it would be possible that Vader's nerves are damaged, thus deadening the pain. But isn't it true that burn victims suffer pain for the rest of their lives? If the nerves are damaged, perhaps they are damaged so that the pain doesn't stop. I don't think Vader's suit was a bacta tank inside. Bacta is a healing fluid, and I seriously doubt the Emperor would have anything to do with healing. He didn't heal Vader, he had him rebuilt.

 

I agree with Zombie. Very nice post . More than likely if there was any physical after awhile the body becomes used to it. He probably used the Force to block it out when he was battling or in Vader mode.

 

Darth_Ramsis posted on 9/26/05 10:29pm

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He probably used the Force to block it out when he was battling or in Vader mode. [hr][/blockquote]

Well I'm reluctant to just say [i]"Well he used the Force to block out the pain when we felt like it"[/i]. It doesn't make much sense. If he could do that then why didn't he just do that all the time?

I totally understand where [b]zombie[/b] is going with his post, but I disagree. I don't think Vader needs more influence/fuel to add to his embrace to the Darkside. RotS was apparent in showing, at least to me, that Vader was the remaining anger and evil in Anakin. After the events on Mustafar, Anakin dies and was buried deep within by Vader. I don't think pain is an incentive to Vader and in fact is more of an inhibiting factor to his overall function. I don't think it's out of reason to believe that Vader's suit not only stabilizes him, but heals him as well.

 

Yes good post by zombie, but I agree with obiwan506's point.

But I also found this about third degree burns: "Third-degree burns?involve all layers of the skin and may also damage the underlying bones, muscles, and tendons. The burn site appears pale, charred, or leathery and there is generally no sensation in the area because the nerve endings are destroyed." (http://www.umm.edu/altmed/ConsConditions/Burnscc.html)

 

Thanks for agreeing with me,

One thing I wanted to point out though. You mentioned that Anakin/Vader shouldn't feel anything because of significant nerve damage, but he sure looks like he's in pain on the operating table at the end of RotS. So I'm not exactly sure ... it seems though that he still feels pain. Although I still think his suit heals him. Just look at him at the end of RotS and then at the end of RotJ. No burn scars.

 

I think it is his strength in the force that saved him not only from death but to the point where he could still feel. I think just about anyone other than Anakin would have surely died smoldering on the riverbed, but Anakin is not only alive and conscious but he is clawing his way back up with his one remaining arm ! Now that is perseverance! Anakin's unmatched strength surely saved him. It is clear that he feels pain--and not just artificial pain, as in where he robotic arm is severed in ROTJ. While on the operating table Anakin is shown writhing in agony and at one point he screams out in pain and bashes the medical droid away with his arm as he thrashes about. He feels pain in his flesh. Medically speaking, i guess it would seem that his powers of the force prevented his nerve endings from being destroyed.

 

Or maybe it was the Force itself that prevented Anakin's nerves from being damaged ... maybe the Force wanted Anakin to feel pain, to remind him.

Man, did I just blow your mind or what?

 

I disagree with the last post. In the novelization of Return of the Jedi, doesn't it say that Vader's rage and hatred were what kept him alive. I know I read that somewhere. They were such powerful forces that, combined with his inability to let go, even horribly injured he remained alive all those years. When he finally becomes Anakin Skywalker again at the end of Return of the Jedi, he releases his anger and hate, and also finally "lets go" and that's what allows him to die.

 

Yes Vader did seem to be in pain in episode 3, he most certainly was. I am sure that only a portion of his nerves were completely destroyed, some had to remain. Also he was powerful in the force theres not doubt about that. In CoPL Luke, using the force, was able to rebuild and regenerate damaged nerves in the brain. It may have been possible for Vader to do the same in other parts of his body.

 

Darth_Pott posted on 9/27/05 8:30pm

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I disagree with the last post. In the novelization of Return of the Jedi, doesn't it say that Vader's rage and hatred were what kept him alive. I know I read that somewhere. They were such powerful forces that, combined with his inability to let go, even horribly injured he remained alive all those years. When he finally becomes Anakin Skywalker again at the end of Return of the Jedi, he releases his anger and hate, and also finally "lets go" and that's what allows him to die.
[hr][/blockquote]

I know. I said that too. [face_tongue]

[blockquote][link=http://boards.theforce.net/user.asp?usr=ObiWan506][b]ObiWan506[/b][/link] [b]posted on 9/27/05 6:58am[/b][hr]I don't think Vader needs more influence/fuel to add to his embrace to the Darkside. RotS was apparent in showing, at least to me, that Vader was the remaining anger and evil in Anakin. After the events on Mustafar, Anakin dies and was buried deep within by Vader. I don't think pain is an incentive to Vader and in fact is more of an inhibiting factor to his overall function. I don't think it's out of reason to believe that Vader's suit not only stabilizes him, but heals him as well. [hr][/blockquote]

 

Even if some of his nerves were damaged by fire or heat, some must reminded, otherwise he would die. So even if his skin was so burned he didn`t feel anything, there must be some nerves in his body left, that`s why he felt pain when Luke cut his arm off.
And there where was other Sith Lord who lived in constant pain and actually used it for stronger connection with the Dark Side, Darth Sion

 

Whilst I agree that the Emperor wouldn't have cared to heal any emotional wounds Vader had in him,the Emperor would want Vader to be as functional physically to be his right hand man.

Bear in mind,once the Emperor had most of the Galaxy in his control access to medical facilities would be almost endless and so no big deal to the Emperor if Vader was to use such facilities and technology for healing his body.

Also,whilst some realism is important in telling any fictional story,the suspending of belief applies just as much.

so,comparing what we know of burns and the effects thereafter would be difficult to do when we are talking about a place where lightsabres,spaceships and laser blasters are the accepted norm.

Obviously GL intended to portray that this was a technologically advanced place just that it's not necessarily set in the future.

I.E. many associate advanced technology with the future.

 

Burn victims dont feel that pain for long. I would know, both my leg and arm had severe burns, and they no longer pain me. In fact they are mostly healed, so im assuming Vader was the same. But he still should have been in great pain when starting out in the suit, because his wounds had no time what so ever to heal. And if the Force can be used to block out pain, why did Obi-wan not do it when Dooku stabbed his arm and leg? Well, what im thinking the Force can not block out pain, but can sheild others.

 

I guess most of the skin burns were healed with bacta, so he didn`t feel that much pain when he started to wear this suit

 

I don't think he was partially healed with bacta. I don;t even think they had that technology at the end of ROTS.




Emporer Gerner Dark Lord of the Sith

 

Perhaps he didn't. But at the end of RotJ we see Anakin significantly healed from what we saw at the end of RotS. So somewhere in-between these two films, Anakin/Vader finds a way to heal himself.

It's not out of the realm of possibility that we are to assume the suit was a significant part of that healing process.

 

On the contrary, I think the majority of the healing took place with the suit off in specialized med-chambers like the one on the Executor. It's not inconcievable that Vader, as the second most powerful man in the Galaxy (source: Shadows of the Empire) would have similar facilities most everywhere he stayed. Several other ISDs probably had them on the off chance Lord Vader would board them. His residences on Coruscant and that one palace they show in Dark Empire II probably have them. He probably spends much of his time within the healing properties of the air in his med-chambers.

 

I think what's missing here is someone mentioning the fact that there are over twenty years between ROTS and ROTJ. That's why Anakin appears in slightly better shape at the end of ROTJ as opposed to ROTS when the mask goes on. In twenty years, even the most serious of wounds will experience dramatic healing and this will have nothing to do with any silly notion of a bacta suit. Imagine Vader in a fight and all that bacta leaking somewhere inside his suit after a particulary nasty hit. Highly impractical, and while not "outside the realm of possibility," it's extremely unlikely. Vader's suit was built to sustain his life, i.e. to breathe for him along bionic limbs for support. It was not built to heal him. In twenty years, with bacta speeding up the process, Vader surely would no longer have depended on the suit by the time we see him in the original trilogy.

DP

 

Does bacta have the ability to create, or repair, organs? So far all the examples we've seen in the Films have pointed out that Bacta heals only the outside of the human body. Furthermore, I wouldn't say Anakin appears in slightly better shape at the end of RotJ, I would however say he is in significantly much better shape. Compare the head shots from both RotS and RotJ and you'll see a more smooth, paler, uncharred head with obviously some wounds that couldn't be healed fully. Perhaps he doesn't have a constant flow of bacta in his suit, but I'm sure he found a way to heal himself. Perhaps he slept in bacta at night, I don't know.

I just don't think Palpatine left Vader to be in pain, I don't understand what that would accomplish and in-fact it would really inhibit Vader from doing much of anything, let alone fighting a Jedi Knight.

 

Vader can feel pain obviously. He can use the force to help him ignore the pain, I mean for gods sake he is a sith. If he is the the secound most powerful sith that has ever existed then i think he has the power to tolerate some minor burns. Also he has had years of training as a Jedi so he is very disciplined. Darth Sion had a fractured body and was in constant pain all of the time. Darth Sion isnt even in the top 20 most powerful sith, Vader is 2nd after palpatine.

 

Darth who?

And since when does Anakin's burns look minor?