Vader's last words (another dual persona thing)

Anybody got the TF.N Newsletter and read the (incredibly easy) trivia?

For those who didn't:

Q. What were the last words of the Emperor, Obi-Wan,
Darth Vader, and Yoda before they died?

A. The Emperor - "Now Young Skywalker, you will die."
or "Aaaaaaaaaaaa!"
Obi-Wan - "You can't win Darth. If you strike me down,
I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."
Darth Vader - "Tell your sister....you were right."
Yoda - "There is another Sky...walker..."


Now, I'm one of those people who always seperated the characters Vader and Anakin and I refuse to accept that answer. "Tell your sister you were right" were Anakin's last words.
Vader's last words were "If you can not be turned to the Dark Side, then perhaps she will."

I could accept if anybody stated all of Vader's dialogue is spoken by Anakin (from a certain point of view)
but everything after he threw away the Emperor is not Vader.

Who agrees with me?
Who doesn't? And why?


(oh, and, no mentions of ghosts! That is an order!)

 

Anakin took the name Darth Vader and forgot about his past. He was still the same person, but he had created another persona for himself and believed in it so strongly that he became another man(actually more machine, but you get the picture). When he finally decided that he was Anakin, Darth Vader disappeared.
What I'm trying to say is that I agree with you, even though I still don't view them as separate individuals.

 

OK,
This is something that bugs the crap out of me. Vader and Anakin ARE THE SAME FREAKING PERSON!!!! All siths do, once they take on that path, is to get a new name as a way of showing their devotion to their art/religion/way of living. This is the same reason many religions (Muslim, Hindu, Zen, etc.) do it. It is a way of representing that from that point on (the moment when they decide to accept/follow those new ways -Sith, Zen, etc.), everything that was before no longer matters/exists... It's a way of saying, the person I used to be (sinful, arrogant, whatever), has ceased to exist the moment I decided to convert to the ways of Zen. In reality, the person is still the same, only they now go by a different name, to emphasize that the old-self is no longer there.

Now, in reference to your comment/question. Those WERE Darth Vader's last word. They were also Anakin's last words. They are the same person. Just because you change names, it doens't make you a different person. I have friends who have legally changed their names, for whatever reason they decided to, but that doesn't mean that my frineds no longer exist. They are still there, I just called them by a different name.

 

Well, of course it is still the same person

but I'd like to see a difference between the Vader and Anakin parts and even believe Lucas may very well have aimed for that. A difference that makes me distinguish between "the two".
It's still all Anakins responsibility, but I share Ben's point of view that Anakin has been destroyed. At least until Luke proves him wrong

 

Those were not Darth Vader's last words, because by that time, he no longer called himself Darth Vader. Every word spoken by Vader was also spoken by Anakin, because that's who he was. It does not work the other way round, though. The words spoken by Anakin when he didn't go by the name Vader were not spoken by Vader.

 

^^^

Excellent point...

 

Hmmm...another interesting take on the dual persona thing.

As I have said before, I find seeing Vader and Anakin as two completely different entities actually weakens the entire series, at least the Anakin Skywalker side of it. Because I've always seen the message of his return to the light as meaning that everyone can be redeemed, not you can just go back to who you used to be.

But I do think some seperation of Anakin and Vader is necessary. It's rather hard to explain, but they are two different people but the same person at the same time. It's not a case of multiple personalities or anything like that, just two-side of the same personality. Everyone has a darkness...Anakin just allows his to take control and thus he becomes Darth Vader.

At the end, his dark side is banished and thus one could say he becomes Anakin again...but it's still the same person inside.

I hope that makes some sort of sense.





The Cleric 007

 

Now, I'm one of those people who always seperated the characters Vader and Anakin and I refuse to accept that answer.

Same here. I mean, Palpatine and Obi-Wan both think of them as two different people, so I do as well.

Vader's spirit died when he destroyed the emperor, so saying Vader's last words were "Tell your sister, you were right." is incorrect.

 

I disagree. Anakin may have changed and become Darth Vader, but that doesn't mean that he wasn't still Anakin after he turned to the dark side and donned the suit. I don't think the characters are seperate. They are one character. Anakin's words are Vader's and vice versa. He was the same person--two sides of the same coin, if you will. It's still the same coin though each side looks different. You can't say it's two coins--just like you can't say Anakin and Vader were two different characters.

 

Anakin becomes Vader. Anakin turns to the dark side, becomes a Sith, takes the name Darth Vader and gets the injuries that require the suit. He later turns back to the good side, is no longer Darth Vader, saves his son, destroys the sith and fulfills the Prophecy and speaks to Luke as Anakin Skywalker.

Anakin becomes Darth Vader when he turns to the dark side. Darth Vader is not a seperate being that defeats Anakin and takes over his body and he is not a seperate being that shares Anakin's body with Anakin.

Just like the Republic/Empire. The Empire is not a seperate rule that defeats the Republic and takes over rule and it is not a seperate rule that shares rule with the Republic. The Republic becomes the Empire. The Republic turned to Palpatine (Darth Sidious) and he made it an Empire and named it the Empire. Anakin turned to the dark side and became a Sith and took the name Darth Vader.

And Obi-Wan's "certain point of view" still applies.

 

Darth Vader was created from the darkness within Anakin & then took control over his body. Later, Darth Vader died when Anakin broke free from him when he decided to save his son. At least that's the way I see it.

 

TwiLekJedi
You are right. Those were the last words of the entity known as Darth Vader. Sure it isn't Jeckle to Hyde. But that was Vader's last words!

 

So if Anakin and Vader are two seperate people, who was responsible for killing the Tuskens on Tatooine?
I see them as the same person, just with a very complex personality. Vader/Anakin (or Vadakin) is a person who wants to do good, but is ultimately a very ruthless individual. He wants the galaxy to be a better place, but has a different vision of a better place. In short, Vadakin cannot be classified as "good" or "evil," he has always wanted power, even as a child, but he also has compassion. And really, in the prequils, when did we ever see Anakin as a "good man?"

Warrior_of_Mandalore Strikes Again!

 

Wouldn't the saying "He isn't himself anymore" apply to him?

 

Darth Vader isn't just Anakin going by a different name. Anakin didn't chose to become Vader, he was taken over by the dark side when it was HE who thought he could control IT to do good. Therefore, the man in ANH who cuts down Obi-wan ISN'T the same Anakin who fell in love with Padme. He's Anakin who has become corrupted by the dark side. The whole tragedy of Anakin/Vader is that the dark side was inescapable - Anakin was supposed to be trapped by the manacles of the dark side forever. It was only the love for his son that brought the smoldering ember that was once Anakin sparking back to life and enabled him to break free of the living hell.

That's why Obi-wan described Vader and Anakin as separate beings and that is why GL has put Hayden in ROTJ as Anakin's ghost, because Anakin effectively dies in ROTS.

If Vader and Anakin were the same, do you think he would have earned himself a place alongside Obi-wan and Yoda in the afterlife? Of course not.

 

"once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny" comes to mind


and hey, what did I say about ghosts

 

But, by the dual persona logic, Anakin wasn't redeemed, because it was technically Vader who did the evil acts. So instead of redeeming Anakin, you kill Vader. This destroys the whole theme of redemption which the trilogy is founded on, and makes for a more mundane plot of just killing the bad guy.

Warrior_of_Mandalore Strikes Again!

 

Anakin is still redeemed, it's just that he is redeemed for doing the awful things that caused the Darth Vader personality to be created & control him.

 

As I have said before, I find seeing Vader and Anakin as two completely different entities actually weakens the entire series, at least the Anakin Skywalker side of it. Because I've always seen the message of his return to the light as meaning that everyone can be redeemed, not you can just go back to who you used to be.

I completely agree with you. At the end of RotJ, he's not the Anakin he was in the PT. If you think he is, just compare the behavior of the two characters.

I think the idea is Anakin trained as a Jedi, then trained as a Sith and went through the crucible of the dark side, and was able to emerge from that trial greater than he was when he began it. The combination of the two gave him understanding of the entire Force, not just parts of it or only the parts he would have been allowed to explore as a Jedi. I mean, how well can you understand a Force of life if you're not even allowed to love individuals? Emotions are some of the most powerful intangibles in the living world. Basically, I feel the old Republic Jedi got things wrong and made some serious errors in the way they trained Jedi, and hence Anakin became the only "fully trained Jedi" out there at the end of RotJ.

 

I have to give kudos to JediMasterJen, ScottASkwalker and HanSolo29. They expressed my point better than I did.

Anakin did not "lose" to Vader, adn then Vader took over his body. He chose to follow the Dark Side, and he chose fight other Jedi and control people through evil(ok, maybe was tricked into this by palsp or the dark side). He may have thought what he was doing was good, or whatever, but he still chose to do what he did, and follow the path he did.

To further explain the whole "Darth Vader is different from Anakin" thing, or rather disprove it: You all know me as Bescin Prix, that's the name I use in these boards to post my messages. That is the name I go by when dealing with Star Wars stuff. However, I do have another name, the name my family and friends outside SW know me by. If I were to die right this second, would you say these were Bescin's last words, not myrealname's? Would you say they were myrealname's and not Bescin's? Or would you say they were both, Bescin's and myrealname's?

Also, if I were a criminal, and I robed a bank or something, but when I did that, I told everyone my name was Bescin Prix, when they came looking for me, could I say: "sorry, fellas, Bescin Prix doesn't exist anymore, I am myrealname. You can't take me to Jail, see, I did nothing wrong."? NO> I would still be accountable for my actions, regardless of the "name" they were committed under.

 

You'd be just switching names. You're still the same person.
The Anakin side (mostly how he is in TPM) is different from the Vader side.
There wasn't anything of "Vader" left when he threw down the Emperor. Vader was destroyed (not to confuse with outright "dead").

 

If Vader and Anakin were the same, do you think he would have earned himself a place alongside Obi-wan and Yoda in the afterlife?

Yes. Turning back to the good side. Being redeemed. Being forgiven.