Rogue One Vehicles/Tech in Rogue One

^ Or alternate version of ROJ. The deleted scenes aboard the Falcon during the space battle do not only show the guys manning the gunports but plenty of Rebel Commandos carrying their weapons inside the corridors. Either they were there to repel possible borders - or to infiltrate the second Death Star as some kind of Plan B.

 

I wouldn't have minded a tie fighter. Basically it's a robot that strangles people with ties. That's how Krennic should've gone.

 

^ Maybe Krennic was helming the TIE fighter in the alternate takes, confronting Jyn on the exterior platform?

 

They Gravity Wells may have been in the novels but in terms of what is shown onscreen hyperdrive technology remains a mystery to the viewer. Alright in previous Star Wars stories the Millennium Falcon was the focus allowing us to experience and see how hyperdrive works. This film was a straight up action movie the illusion does not disappear the instant we see other space vessels taking advantage of the fantasy of Space flight. Tie-Fighters, X-Wings and U-Wings traversing the orbits of planets is consistent with the premise that this is a galactic conflict. Different ships, different designs. The speeds will vary considerable.

 

What illusion are you talking about, why would it disappear when other ships partake in "fantasy" flight, what does the speed of snubcraft in orbit have anything to do with a galactic scale conflict, and what does that have to do with varying speeds? In other words, could you please clarify your statement?

The point I was trying to make was that jumping to hyperspace inside a planet's gravity well was not only incongruent with what we saw in the original films, SW lore since forever and recent novels part of the "canon", it's also quite silly taking into account the aforementioned sources.

This is why I suggested that the occurrence in the film can be ignored since it contradicts SW lore. It should absolutely not become the norm for hyperspace technology of the GCW period.

If these reasons aren't good enough for you, the most concrete objection I can give besides those is that the occurrence removes a limit on SW technology. For example, it begs the question why Han Solo in ANH didn't jump to hyperspace in the atmosphere of Tatooine. Another example would be why would the Empire even bother setting up a blockade over Hoth? What is the point of Interdictor ships that don't even project an actual gravity well? If you remove a limit on technology it begs the question when events happen where things still act as if the limit was still in place. This is the reverse of world building. This isn't to say that there should be no technological advancements, but that you shouldn't take limits off of technology that is already present.

An example of this would be Star Destroyers in Atmosphere. It almost totally removes the limits of repulsor-lift technology. It begs more questions than it provides answers for. Like, why is infantry so prevalent in SW warfare when you can have an entire freakin' Star Destroyer (or who knows how large of a vessel, or even Space Station size) right over your target/objective? Why is walker technology so prevalent when repulsor technology is so much more powerful?

Just to reiterate my first objection, it's just plain silly for the U-wing to have so much trouble achieving escape velocity when SW ships in the original movies have been seen to enter and exit atmospheres in as little as seconds.

 

In the Star Wars Universe i see the questions posed to the audience are for us to interpret for ourselves. Too much detail takes away from the imagination. The SW lore is fan fiction and unless it is included in the story i don't consider it full canon. I loved Rogue One partially for the inclusion of so much fan fic. During ANH i was not concerned nor interested in the Hyperdrive tech later as we become immersed in the adventure it is nice to see the additional lore coming to the fore.

The focus of Rogue One was the emphasis on the war between the Rebels & Empire and it is here we see all the details and the nod to the literature that accompanies them. The Galaxy is a big place and much of the Star Wars Universe is left unexplained to us. We don't need 10-15 minutes discussing the process in which a transport ship can get from coordinates A-B in the story.

 

I agree that the how's of the SWU should not be discussed in the films. But, the rules that have been established should be followed. For example, seeing that the weapons on the U-wings were able to take out the legs of the AT-ACTs I assumed that they were standard turbo laser technology. Turns out they are supposed to be Ion weapons, which in lore do not do the kind of physical damage portrayed in the film. Surprisingly enough, the film follows the myth that ion weapons have a blue tint to them.This has me ultimately confused.

Even when ROTJ was being made, there was a chart of the different speeds of the space fighters like the A-wing, X-wing, Tie Interceptor, ect. where the speeds are shown in MLGT (I've forgotten the actual acronym but it stands for Mega Lights). While this was never discussed in the film, it was part of the structure and detail of the Universe shown in the film.

The fact that RO seems to disregard or ignore so many of these established rules is noticeable to me, along with a few others. We are different kind of fan. We take pleasure in being versed in the technology of SW. The fact that the makers of RO didn't have us fans in mind is somewhat disappointing.

 

I think overall the armor of the AT-ACTs is weaker than the AT-ATs. It would be interesting to see if an X-wing could take out an AT-AT like it did with an AT-ACT.

 

I agree that it makes sense that AT-AT walkers are vulnerable to air attacks. What doesn't make sense is that Ion machineguns (?) could splinter solid Durasteel armor as if it were wood, when the same Ion technology used on the ISD in the battle of Hoth doesn't even appear to leave a scorch mark.
Also AT-ACTs make sense because...they needed AT-ATs in the movie but they couldn't be the AT-ATs we see in ESB because...?
Considering repulsorlift technology is so powerful, why would you design a cargo carrier so tall that you would need a crane or repulsors to load it anyway and so slow because of the inherent slowness of walker technology. A repulsorlift vehicle could traverse the oceanic landscape much, much, faster than an AT-ACT can, you could economize your space better making it even wider than an AT-ACT. A hover vehicle could lower to ground level so you can just roll your cargo on.
The AT-ACT is just such a bad design for its intended use/purpose that the only thing I can boil it down to is solely for the rule of cool. Which I absolutely abominate.
Same thing goes for the tracked tank that every youtuber thought was a hover tank. Its gun placements are totally useless for a tank (they all face forwards and none get face the flanks of the tank without the entire tank rotating)

 

Hyrum_Solo wrote

What doesn't make sense is that Ion machineguns (?) could splinter solid Durasteel armor as if it were wood, when the same Ion technology used on the ISD in the battle of Hoth doesn't even appear to leave a scorch mark.

I wouldn't know whether these were "ion machine guns" but if you look closely in ESB you can notice that the Rebel artillery is really aiming for the knuckle joints of the snow walkers (Star Wars designer Joe Johnston hates "AT-AT" so I go with his recommendation), which I think always suggested that it was a weak spot, but it took until RO to actually illustrate this.

Considering repulsorlift technology is so powerful, why would you design a cargo carrier so tall that you would need a crane or repulsors to load it anyway and so slow because of the inherent slowness of walker technology. A repulsorlift vehicle could traverse the oceanic landscape much, much, faster than an AT-ACT can, you could economize your space better making it even wider than an AT-ACT. A hover vehicle could lower to ground level so you can just roll your cargo on.

Good point, but instead of repulsor lifts I'd go one step further and fill the cargo carrier with Tibanna gas. However it would not have nearly looked as menacing as those cargo walkers in RO.

 

Yeah, the AT-ACT is kind of a bonkers design. The AT-AT itself you can pass off as being designed as much for psychological impact as practicality (as is the case with a fair bit of Imperial equipment), but the AT-ACT? Why do you need your cargo haulers to be big slow scary things?

Doesn't detract from the movie for me, but they could've easily just been regular AT-ATs.

(And what cargo are they hauling that they need a bunch of AT-ACTs there? Are they filled with datatapes or something?)

 

Jmacq1 The Empire never invented micro SD cards .

 

As a dedicated Star Trek fan i fully appreciate when the writers mess up important details in films. It can be very frustrating. I don't apply the same rigorous uniformity to Star Wars than i do with Trek. A notorious example is in TWOK Pavel Chekov knew who Khan was yet he was introduced into the series after the episode Space Speed. Does not make that movie any less of a brilliant film. The minor details can be corrected in later stories as we build up greater understanding of the Star Wars universe and the technology should operate as opposed to the writers determining for themselves. Although i have heard from those who say such a format limits creativity by applying canon. For me as a rule canon enhances my enjoyment of the film at least within the context of Star Trek and in time i would be willing to see a comparable canon for Star Wars that all the fans agree with.

 

Jmacq1 wrote

Yeah, the AT-ACT is kind of a bonkers design. The AT-AT itself you can pass off as being designed as much for psychological impact as practicality (as is the case with a fair bit of Imperial equipment), but the AT-ACT? Why do you need your cargo haulers to be big slow scary things?

Is this Wookieepedia description for Scarif correct?: a center for Imperial top-secret military research

Then it's not only designed to archive sensitive data but organic and inorganic samples, specimen etc., etc.

While I haven't the faintest idea how the Empire collects samples (other than apparently putting these into these orange containers), I can see some sense in securing these containers for the duration of the voyage in a vehicle which itself should make access to these containers aboard ships rather difficult, land that vehicle and its cargo straight to a landing site on Scarif, have it hold there (relatively well protected) and then proceed to the delivery coordinates.provided by the Scarif control center.

 

Man, if Scarif was basically the "Area 51/Los Alamos" of the Empire, then Tarkin's destruction if it is brash bordering on ridiculously reckless. They didn't really mention it being more than a secret data archive in the film that I recall, but it makes sense to be "more" just based on how it was designed.

 

Jmacq 1

Yes, Tarkin's behaviour beg's for a few questions. Had he really wanted to prevent the Rebels from transmitting the plans at all costs, then he should have targeted the center of the complex, instead of wasting precious time by having the devastating shot fired elsewhere (or was this some kind of subtle "imprecise" Empire joke?).

(Unless the Death Star couldn't properly align in time and just fired its 'best' shot)

 

Looks like we have spies on both sides. It turns out Grand Moff Tarkin was a rebel spy all along while those surrounding Mon Mothma and sent Cassian to assassinate Galen were doing so on the order of an Imperial mole deep within the Rebel Alliance. I see a potential conspiracy.

 

There is the presence of one particular Alliance vessel during the Battle of Scarif I find somewhat confusing, i.e. the Rebel 'Gallofree' transport ships.

From the filmmaker's point of view I could imagine that it's "No Rebel fleet should be without them", but I'm obviously interested in the practical "in-universe" explanation.

I think there is little doubt that at the end of ESB they are just there for what they are, i.e. cargo ships.

Regarding their particular function during the Battle of Endor in ROJ, the author of the ROJ novelization provided a helpful explanation:

The two armadas, like their sea-bound ancestors, blast away at each other in individual point-blank confrontations. A Star Destroyer explodes. The Rebel victor limps away, its back half alive with a series of minor explosions. The Rebel cruiser manages to move in next to a second Star Destroyer before it explodes completely, taking the Imperial Star Destroyer with it. Cargo ships loaded with charge are set on collision courses with fortress-vessels, their crews abandoning ships. The Falcon and several fighters attack one of the larger Imperial ships.
http://boards.theforce.net/threads/...urn-of-the-jedi.50041047/page-2#post-53639124

Regarding their presence in RO it seems their use as "fire ships" wasn't considered (neither against the Star Destroyers nor against the orbital station) while their role as troop transporter (ESB) was delegated to the U-Wings instead.
One of my friends claims that upon the arrival of Vader's Star Destroyer one Rebel transport is pulverized impacting on the hull of Vader's ship, but with no explosion that could either suggest a function of a "fire ship" or a tanker (to refuel the fighters)

Does the novelization or any other source explain their presence at the Battle of Scarif for a practical reason?

 

Not to my knowledge, but another explanation that I'v read is that they were armed with anti-starfighter weaponry to act as close support ships at the battle of Endor.
A possible explanation for Scarif might have been that they were supposed to land reinforcements on the planets surface but because of the time window being to short they weren't fast enough to make it.

 

I agree that should be a minimum standard for those producing new SW movies. I wouldn't say being aware of these inconsistencies will ruin a movie for me, but pile on enough or making them a pivotal plot point will draw more ire from me as a viewer. Variations are acceptable, but only to a degree.

On Rogue One's escape from Jedha, there were quite a few new variables introduced. Sure ships have escaped atmosphere as a non-event before, but you could hardly call what was happening a non-event. Part of the problem was the terrain itself was becoming part of the overhead mushroom cloud.

 

In essence, if the cloud was traveling faster than 7 miles/second I could buy it. Though the hyperspace jump should have been more dangerous.

 

I'll suggest to you that the "rules" you've established in your head may be incomplete. I mentioned this earlier, but there is no reason to believe that entering light speed in an atmosphere is a normal thing to do. For example, when the U-Wing launches from Yavin 4 it proceeds to space as normal before entering hyprspace. The situation they were in was clearly an emergency, and doing what they did was likely extremely risky. It's easy to amendmyour rules to say that it is possible, at least for some ships, but very risky. Most ships may be equipped with a hyperdrive that prohibits such a thing. It would not, however, be surprising that a covert operative might use a ship where such safety interlocks can be overriden.

As an example, I have worked on F/A-18's for long time. Normally, the A-D models are limited by software to 7.2 G's. But the plane is capable of over 9 G's aerodynamically. The pilot can override this limitation in an emergncy, but he risks permanently damaging the plane if he does so. Make sense?

 

Yes, that makes sense. I just don't want it to become a common occurrence. I remember the incomplete calculation being risky but I would've liked it better if it was portrayed as more risky than just the calculation.

 

I looked at it as a combination of two things. Tarkin wanted to stop the transmission, but even more then that, I think he wanted to take out Krennic. When he learns there is a rebel incursion on Scarif, he verifies that Krennic is there. I think they were jockeying for power, with Krennic trying to get direct approval (and promotion) from the Emperor. Tarkin and Krennic went at it earlier in the movie, so I think taking out Scarif, in Tarkin's eyes, was as much as a power grab as it was cleaning up the mess.

 

Here is a passage from the Revenge of the Jedi, Revised Rough Draft, June 12 1981.
http://starwarz.com/starkiller/revenge-of-the-jedi-revised-rough-draft/

Who knows if Abrams knew of this.