JCC Volkswagen's massive consumer fraud

I live in Chattanooga and work for a supplier for the Volkswagen manufacturing plant here. A few months ago, I was ordered to go to the plant to work with the assembly team to identify quality issues. It's a huge plant and I've seen the huge expansion they are planning for the new SUV. I don't know if this revelation will knock this plant off it's feet, but even if that does happen, many companies would have no hesitation trying got buy it.

 

I'm very interested in what sort of reduction in MPG and power I will have once they fix these issues.

 

Volkswagen's emissions cheating likely caused dozens of deaths in the US

 

I found these beautiful winding roads over the long weekend we just had. Late apex the turns in 2nd and hit the power, car just pulls through it beautifully. No lag on the upshift like my brother's Mercedes. I love my Volkswagen Golf GTI.

 

I figured it was just a matter of time before somebody made this:
NSFW!

 

I love the GTI, but I loathe those damn plaid seats. I could get the GTI SE with black leather but then my payments would go up.

 

The tartan pattern (plaid?) harkens back to the original MkI Golf GTI. It's classic as ****.

 

It's also ugly as **** and I would never own it. Classic doesn't always mean good.

 

I'm sure Porsche and Audi diesel owners will be at least as cavalier about the fraud. "If it improves the performance and handling of my car: count me in."

 

Yeah, cuz performance and handling are more important than breathing.

Mom got a letter from VW, basically saying "we're sorry, we'll make this right, it will never happen again" but totally lacking in details or plans to do anything.

 

Probably because doing the right thing could bankrupt the company.

 

Really we should just ban the import of VWs, Porsches and Audis to the US

 

Strilo, if you want to peel yourself off leather in summer and freeze your balls into your throat in winter, go for it. I took the tartan (let's just take a moment to recall you actually said plaid and let the awkwardness wash over us) over the leather because I got a GTI in red and so it matches quite nicely. Looks great, always gets compliments. With a red or black GTI, it will look great. Any other colour, lol for wasting money.

Please. The only diesel Porsche affected is the Cayenne. The 911 isn't, so the opinions of those Porsche owners means nothing.

Yeah but let's be fair; Detroit has only offered cars which have neither handling, performance, or decent emissions so this is not that bad.

And what can VW do? I've had enough experience with regulatory interactions to give you an idea of what they're up against.

Firstly, they will have to agree to enter into a remediation plan with regulators in various jurisdictions. Probably US and Germany. That will take time and part of its success is contingent on VW being able to identify in full the extent and scope of the problem. That is, every single engine that is affected. Not could be. Is. Meaning all variables must be confirmed first.

Then it needs to work out how many of them are in circulation, and where.

Then it will need to work out if it can fix the emissions problem across a number of engines with varying displacements.

Then they need to assess the viability of fixing them vs paying fines and compensation.

Then they will need to enter into a programme of works with regulators which basically subject them to enhanced compliance monitoring. Meaning, the production of diesel engines going forward will be subject to periodic board-level attestation that it complies with the regulations. Additionally independent emissions testing will need to occur to verify VW's assertions.

All this will need to be discussed and scoped and agreed before VW can do anything. So expect months to pass whilst this is all formed into a coherent plan.

 

Well, Ender Sigh, what do you have to say now that the defense you contrived about only being an issue for non-luxury models has been proven false?

The noise of capitalists is unending, but if shackles are forged for criminals, then why should the markets be free?

 

What? The primary marque affected remains Volkswagen followed by Audi. How you could think I'm wrong is just... I don't even.

Porsche was surprised to learn that its 2015 Cayenne - which is their SUV - was affected.

http://press.porsche.com/news/pdf/2015/121_Porsche_Statement_Regarding_EPA_Notice.pdf

"


Late this morning, Porsche Cars North America, Inc. received a notice of violation from the United States Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) regarding the 2015 Porsche Cayenne Diesel.


We are surprised to learn this information. Until this notice, all of our information was that the Porsche Cayenne Diesel is fully compliant.

"


Hmmm.

 

Your whole argument was dependent on this phenomenon being segregated to their lower end brands. Which Porsche is not. I'm not sure what you are trying to make out of the pretended "surprise" noted in the press release.

 

I'm still confused and can only assume you haven't done your homework.

The Porsche brand currently has the following models available (and I think the * one has actually sold out its production run):

* 918 - hybrid supercar
911 - high-tier sports car
Cayman - mid-tier sports car
Boxter - Mid/low-tier sports car
Panamera - 4 door grand tourer
Cayenne - SUV
Macan - Mid-tier SUV

Porsche's most iconic car is of course the 911 and it is what people think of when they think of the marque. However, their biggest seller in recent years and really the architect of their profitability has been... the Cayenne. The Cayenne was originally seen as heresy by Porsche diehards but it has undoubtedly been an asset to the brand.

In about 2008 or 09, Porsche introduced a Diesel. It uses a V6 TDI engine (the Cayenne was the first V8 since the 928 in the 80s)... i.e. a VW engine.

So 1 car in their fleet, whose point was to sell to people who would otherwise have bought E- or S-Klasse Mercs or 7 series BMWs... has a diesel engine... which is made by VW.

Yep. You sure done showed me Wockster.

Now, VW Group has been in full cooperation and disclosure mode with the relevant US and German authorities since the scandal broke. So what value do they have in not disclosing issues with a subsidiary of the group when they have come clean on Skoda, SEAT, etc?

None.

Tell me; what portion, in raw numbers of percentage terms, does the Porsche Cayenne diesel represent in terms of overall sales for the VW Group?

Also, can you please comment on what you can find about VW's move to make their business scalable by using common platforms across all marques?

 

This is as all an aside. I never claimed to have as much interest or concern about cars as you do. I never will. But that was not relevant to your argument. You claimed that this scandal developed as a result of specific economic pressures that applied solely to low end brands/vehicles. A Porsche does not meet that standard. It is an exception that proves the rule, and your explanation has been found wanting.

 

Nope, it's still quite right.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkswagen_Group_MQB_platform
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Volkswagen_Group_diesel_engines

For the latter CTRL-F "Porsche"

As you can see, the Cayenne Diesel, the single affected model, uses a VW engine. Not a Porsche engine.

You can only take the position you do if you have no idea about VW Group. In other words, in simple terms, you are incorrect. If Porsche's 2015 Cayenne is affected, it's because the engine they sourced from Volkswagen AG and the engine itself, which is used across a number of platforms/chassis/marques, was built to defeat emissions testing. Porsche's detective control framework can't even be said to fail, nor do Porsche AG have a systemic issue.

 

You don't seem to have understood my point. It wasn't to indict Porsche in particular. It was to rebut your line of reasoning for the scandal. You can't say it was only deployed as a cost-saving measure in low-end vehicles if they used it on engines that were going to be placed in vehicles that were not low-end.

 

And today VW admitted to having misled regulators with inaccurate information for gasoline vehicles.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/volkswagens-shares-take-tumble-after-epas-fresh-allegations-1446559388

 

Today's headline news: Wocky proves he doesn't understand scalability!

You didn't click on either of those links did you?

 

Wocky, I'd say that Porsche was the unintended victim of the problem. The scam was aimed at overcoming emissions issues with the VW brand - Porsche got caught up in it simply because they used a VW engine for one model. It's not indicative that the scam was perpetrated by the Porsche people or that Porsche needed to implement the measure to remain solvent or otherwise. The fools at VW probably didn't even realise that one of its engines was going in a Porsche. I didn't know and I would be outraged if I bought a $180K car only to find it had a VW engine in it.

 

The engine was designed for the Touareg and Audi Q5/Q7. The Audi SUVs in question are cheaper alternatives to the M, ML and G Klasse Mercedes and X3, X5, X6 BMWs. So I remain correct, Wocky.

That 1 variant of 1 Porsche model uses a VW sourced engine is such a non-event from Porsche's perspective or in the grand scheme of things that it really calls into question your analysis, Wocks.