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Nothing would make me happier than if Judas & the Black Messiah was a bigger success than ZSJL.

 

The third party data is always suspect (especially when internal numbers are likely exact, not projections), but it is interesting that in the Variety source article WB was willing to confirm GvK was their all-time top performer, which is consistent with the findings.

 

Some interesting articles about Snyder's films:

Chris Terrio comes out about the studio interference in the writing of BvS and JL, confirming certain aspects of Fisher's THR exposé:
https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2021/04/chris-terrio-justice-league-batman-v-superman?

DC revisit the Martha scene, and show how it's the linchpin of the Snyder films:
https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2021/04/07/the-martha-of-it-all

And a small analysis revealing how Warner somehow dashed any prospects of releasing the Snyder cut in China, which I find a bit strange considering how they boasted about the Godzilla v Kong numbers there:
https://www.small-screen.co.uk/rest...ight-to-get-justice-league-released-in-china/

Still, I think it's a bit strange that WB released the numbers for GvK immediately, while we are still waiting for anything official concerning JL. What are they afraid of? Unless it's a resounding success that potentially puts into question their original plans for DC content...

 

... and this is a positive?

 

I’m not sure how to read that data. Unlike movie ticket sales, streaming viewership is cumulative. So if the Snyder Cut of Justice League was a success at drawing in new subscribers to HBOMax over the course of two weeks, it makes sense that Godzilla vs. King Kong will benefit from that bounce with more views.

Looking at the provided chart - HBO Max does show a sustained rise in streaming markets share after the Snyder Cut release.

 

They didn’t release numbers on GvK for streaming in that Variety source. The exact quote is “larger viewing audience than any other film or show on HBO Max since launch” which is typical of the obscurantist approach to these kind of releases from the platform holders. That there was no similar announcement for JL seems to corroborate the third party analytics that it didn’t move the needle, but that would only be speculation - however, as the benefit of this obscurantism is precisely the ability to downplay underperformers, that would strike me as a more rational explanation than CONSPIRACY!!!1!!

Edit:

Also a possible explanation, but allegedly this third party analytics group is measuring actual views, so their claim is about... well, views, not subscriber counts. We also don’t know what exactly WM looks at on their end - it could be views, it could be views to a certain time stamp, it could be new subscriptions that extend at least one month relative to release dates, this is all kept very vague for a reason.

 

So, I believe what @Ramza is saying is...

#ReleaseTheWingardCut

 

I just want the Please, for the Love of God, Can We All Assume the Giant Corporation is Motivated by Money Cut.

 

Who knew that audiences wouldn't flock to a 4-hour cut of a middling-at-best financial failure from 2017?

 

This dude and Snyder think they wrote and directed great movies that had to be 3 freaking hours and 4 freaking hours (even if divided in two parts) if only the horrible studio and evil Whedon hadn't ruined their amazing work.
Freaking hacks. Excuses excuses.
You would think they would be embarrassed about the trash they delivered to the studio instead of demanding they release the full hackery job to the public. Please go away.
Three hours BvS is still crap. Four hours of Snyder JL is still crap as chopped up Whedon version.
I don't care how horrible Whedon is as a person, no one could have saved this snyderverse trash.
WB were stupid to hire Snyder and Terrio and even more stupid to not just cancel everything after BvS and reboot everything.

 

let's just cancel the superhero genre please

 

Well, for me it just shows that there's more depth to it than the caricature some critics made the moment out to be. Perhaps because they hadn't made the connection themselves until they saw it broadly on the big screen? I don't know, but I think the name as a narrative device is actually an interesting angle to play with, and worth more thought than some paid it.

I still find it dubious that WB is all about GvK, marketing the hell out if it, while they basically left Snyder to his own devices to promote his JL cut via YouTube interviews, as if they set him up to fail from the start (I believe they actually told him to stop being so prolific online). Also, there's a bit of a discrepancy between the numbers they allege ZSJL did when there was such an overload of demand upon release that the HBO servers crashed in Asia, and when third-party providers, including in Canada and in Europe (e.g. Crave, iTunes), actually have the film at the top of their lists, if not breaking records. And I know it might be anecdotical, but the #RestoreTheSnyderVerse hashtag trended on Twitter at 1.5 million, overtaking the precedent record set by Avengers: Endgame. It does somehow look like something is rotten in the state of Denmark.

 

Well, again, what’s more likely, that ZSJL did not meet domestic expectations (which is literally all these third party analytics are talking about), or there’s a vast concerted effort to play 80D chess to make the thing they spent millions and millions of dollars on seem like a flop? At the scale you’re alleging it would go all the way to the top of WM, at which point I think it would be easier to simply not green light the project.

 

WB actually spent only 70 million of additional money to release the cut, of which Snyder didn't touch a cent to keep creative control over his movie. And seeing how they're so busy taking the DC properties in another direction under Hamada (see the lighter atmosphere of WW84 and the trailer for Gunn's Suicide Squad, and basically replacing Affleck with Pattinson), it's not beyond plausibility that, were it not for HBOMax needing a boost, they would actually have left the theatrical cut of JL as their last word.

@heels1785, @SuperWatto,
I am simply stating an opinion. Please be so kind as to allow me that courtesy.

 

You can state any opinion you like. I'm just pointing out that your opinion on this seems to be rooted in speculation and personal preference.

 

Perhaps it’s speculation, but as we are still in the dark about so many facts, and as many principals in the case won’t or can’t speak about it, that’s all we can do at this point. I was merely being careful to frame my thoughts that way so I would not be accused of mistaking my perspective as facts. Truth will out in the end, that’s all I can say. And I’ll be the first to admit it if my intuition is faulty.

 

I think the problem is that you’re conflating Warner Bros and Warner Media. Warner Media does not have a reason to authorize ZSJL and then attempt to downplay any success it has. A win for HBO Max is a win for HBO Max and would be touted as such as it would not be automatically subservient to the alleged interests of WB, a completely separate subsidiary.

You are correct that there is an absence of good information - this is by design in the streaming model, as it strengthens the platform holders’ position in negotiations for future projects across the board and allows for a certain amount of flexibility based on the track of subscriptions in a way that was not necessary with old ratings systems. However, it’s a bad idea to fill a void of good information with conspiracism when financial interests are nakedly the priority, as they are in any corporation.

 

But in the Sarnoff interview, she was all about breaking silos and creating a synergy between subsidiaries, so there’s an element to think that HBOMax wouldn’t be as autonomous as you make it to be. I’m just saying it could be either way.

 

Ann Sarnoff is the head of WB, not WM, she does not actually get to make the calls on HBO Max’s autonomy your theory necessitates.

 

Exactly. So adding subscribers to HBO Max, drawn in by the Snyder Cut over two weeks, then all watch Godzilla vs. King Kong over the first weekend it is available. But who knows. There are different ways this can be looked at.


I read the Chris Terrio interview from Vanity Fair. This is what I thought happened with the DCEU and Warner Bros. It was executives chasing money and stock value that both created and ruined the Snyderverse. It never had a chance.

Warner Bros recognized too late that the movie industry was changing to a long running profitable franchise model overseen by producers. But their long running Harry Potter Franchise - which started all this - had just concluded and they were used to the bump in profits it created. They had two three Hobbit films in the works but wanted something with no set end point. They wanted an MCU. But they had no one like Kevin Feigie with hands on real world experience and knowledge of the source material to do that. The Super Hero genre was hot in 2012 and would probably peak soon. WB didn’t have time to find a person to over see things or gear up a proper cinematic universe.

WB did have a Superman movie in the works. That could be retrofitted into the basis for a larger DC franchise of films. Put Superman and Batman in a film together and look out. It’s like printing money.

But Man of Steel wasn’t a super huge hit and didn’t really become culturally relevant. From the interview we hear WB executives had cold feet before BvS was even released and demanded 30 minutes cut out. They wanted something edgy and adult on one level - like The Dark Knight and Watchmen - but also wanted something to that would be super accessible to kids and generate lots of secondary profit from merchandise and tie-ins - unlike The Dark Knight and Watchmen.

It was impossible. They wanted something very different than the MCU but also wanted the MCU exactly. Instead of picking one side and going all in that direction, they tried make it both. To the point of undermining their own creation. At least Zack Snyder knew what he was making and had a clear focus on the tone and style of the movies. We can finally see that. Snyder’s movies can stand on their own going forward free of the behind the scenes turmoil.

 

Admittedly, but I think it still reveals the global mindset of the company. Maybe we’ll get the answer at some point...

 

That would simply circle back to: if everything is sufficiently integrated that WM would downplay the achievements of one subsidiary owing to the interests of another, why would they bother green lighting the project in the first place? I can think of a faster and cheaper way to satisfy WB’s interests in this hypothetical scenario and so can a bunch of penny pinching executives.