Amph Waiting For Superman: Gunnverse DCU/Elseworlds

Yeah, YouTube movie pundit, John Campea, has constantly noted that Ben Affleck still has one more DC film as Batman/Bruce Wayne that he's contractually obligated to perform should WB/DC want to enforce.

I can't see that happening, if Ben doesn't want to return to the role because WB has a good relationship with Affleck as a director. So, I can't see WB forcing Affleck to put on the cape and cowl and risk losing him as a director.

 

Hopefully he’ll get his act together alcohol wise for his health and career—including not being an insurance risk. And hopefully he’ll get over Sad Ben—but he jokes about that.


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I think when it's said and done The Batman will probably be different enough it could be a different universe. (sort of like how Bumblebee movie straddles this weird line between in continuity and out of continuity with the Bay films). Which is okay, this is all leading up to Crisis on Infinite Earths anyway (probably, eventually) so give us as many alt Bat and Super people we can handle. (And bring in Affleck to be the heroic ultimate Crisis sacrifice).

I'm more open to the notion of a Cyborg movie than I was after watching Justice League, Ray Fisher comes off as a better actor on True Detective and Aquaman turned out to be a better movie than expected so I'm down.

 

And today in Tokyo I see Aquaman in 10 hours.

Edit:

Maybe. But since he’s younger I hope it’ll be a prequel.

Crisis? I’m still new to this and still learning and hadn’t thunk about it. Interesting. Bc while JL 2&3 could be great and rival Avengers, how best to trump Marvel? Then again, with Disney buying Fox and X-Men and Fantastic Four...

Which brings up whether or not Simon Kinsberg will be involved. Or even Avi Arad.



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Sorry for stacking, but time to edit ran out.

https://www.denofgeek.com/us/books-...-what-it-means-for-dc-superhero-tv-and-movies

Interesting. But why do Crisis on TV and film? Though I get multiverse can permit it, why have 2 products? Then again, we got a false Joker and a real Joker in Gotham, and Leto Joker and Phoenix Joker.

 

It wouldn't be the first time DC TeeVee got to an idea before DC movies, Flash, Supergirl are one. And also it's a multiverse, you can have multiple crises (and there have been!) across superhero multiverse mediums.

 

You’ve been hoping some random dude would speculate?

 

Yeah. Speaking of which, when DC has their Worlds of DC exhibit, one theory was it was their official rebranding of the unofficial DCEU, which I never liked anyway. But, couldn’t it mean the DC multimedia multiverse, again why could have 2 Jokers and 2 cinematic Batmans simultaneously if Affleck comes back and Leto isn’t gone.

 

What in the actual ****

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/aquaman-spinoff-works-1184285

 

Don’t you mean, “What in the wide world of sports?”

There’s always contradictory information.

https://deadline.com/2019/01/aquaman-sequel-james-wan-plan-jason-momoa-dc-warner-bros-1202540137/

Maybe we should ask Mike.Zeroh.

I saw Aquaman last night for its Tokyo premiere. Full theater, albeit in a small venue. Almost half women. It was incredible. The story, dialogue, characters, workd building, and acting were all great. Very funny and a lot of fun. Very beautiful, not just the CGI, but the natural scenes as well. I’ll definitely see it again. Looking forward to Shazam.

 

It's not necessarily contradictory. Wan could be overseeing an actual sequel, while holding out on directing it until he sees a good enough script, and producing a mid-tier budget horror spinoff. They're not mutually exclusive.

Weird, though.

 

True. My first reaction was WTF? I wanna sequel. And it sounds so gimmicky. But then I’m thinking Hanada and Wan. So if it’s no a stupid false report, cool.


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The Trench people were in some random eyecandy CGI scenes but if they can actually do something cool with it, sure, why not.

 

The color scheme and CGI choreography as Aquaman, Mera, and the Trench people descending into the trench was amazing.


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Hugo Weaving also had another contractual appearance as Red Skull with Marvel. Instead of holding him to it for IW they went with CGI and a voice actor. And they don't even have a relationship on the directing side of things to try to preserve. If Affleck doesn't want to reprise the role I have a hard time seeing WB strong-arming with a contract. They know he would have no problem finding an elsewhere to take his directing talents should he decided to go that route.

 

Since none of the main cast from the Aquaman flick will be part of "The Trench" spinoff film, I'm thinking it will be sort of a prequel film. There's a horror story in that and the devolution of former citizens of the Atlantis. I really don't see a film taking place post Aquaman, where the creatures from the Trench attack the other factions of Atlanteans without Arthur Curry showing up to save the day. So, I imagine the spinoff would be about surviving the trench.

Yeah, it's very doubtful that WB will force Affleck's hand. So, I'm hoping that Matt Reeves' "The Batman" is so wonderfully awesome that fans move past Batfleck and embrace the newest iteration of the character. And if you following Campea's YouTube channel he strong believes the role has been cast, but the studio just isn't ready to release that information. I suppose SDCC would be the best time to make that announcement.

Personally, I never liked the creative decision of an aged Batman inspired by The Dark Knight Returns. I feel story should be reserved for when WB/DC wants to tell a Logan like film, rather than some spectacle motivated by the director's thoughts of "wouldn't that be cool." The concept and convoluted plot to have Batman and Superman fight in the Snyder-verse really missed the mark and the resolution to the confrontation even worse. Not to mention that all of it was just a precursor to the death of Superman.

At any rate, I'm just happy to see DC move forward and with alot of hope and enthusiasm from the fans.

 

There's no reason to do Crisis in the films. For the shows it's just a way to have the crossover benefits that the fans would like to see. While it is possible that Earth-1 and Earth-38 merge together, making crossovers easier, it has no bearing for the films and shouldn't. Even if "Justice League" hadn't been a mess, there's no real reason to go that far.

It wasn't that bad of a direction. Having an aged Batman was something that hadn't really been done in live action. The Burton/Schumacher films begin with a Bruce Wayne who was in his early thirties and had been Batman for only six months. The Nolan films also kept him in his thirties and most of his adventures took place in a nine year period. Here, this is a Batman with twenty years of experience, who is facing things out of his league and having to adapt. It made him a harder character having lost a partner and seen allies become enemies. Not to mention having the weight of age creeping up on him. The concept for the fight fits in with the Post Crisis version of the character, who is paranoid and struggles to deal with a world out of his control. Sure, the resolution is a bit silly, but also kinda logical that using their mothers names would stop him.

As to Clark's death, well, like I said, it does make sense. It's a good way to justify forming a team to face a threat that he could probably handle on his own, as well bringing full circle back to Clark's fight with Zod and the other Kryptonians. A fight where he needed help and it showed.

 

Right. I love Superman, especially after seeing the movie in the theaters in 1978. In JL he would have been too much too soon if alive. I thought I heard he originally was supposed to have been in black suit under the control of Darkseid.

If what Kevin Smith says is true, I wonder how Aquaman could help out on Apokolips. Or, does New Genesis get involved and he helps there.

Will see Aquaman for a second time today. Can’t believe it didn’t get nominated for FX and cinematography.

Before even listening to Collider The Trench makes sense given Wan.


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Yeah, and it wouldn't have been that bad of a direction if an aged Batman really meant something; a real importance to the story. I felt Snyder only went with an aged Batman to inspire thoughts of The Dark Knight Returns, but Batfleck's Batman is nothing like Frank Miller's Dark Knight aside from being old. Remember, part of the reason why The Dark Knight Returns is so revered it touches on the notion of "a world without Batman," as well as theme of Watchmen of vigilantes being outlawed.

As for the death of Superman, yeah, Snyder said he did it so Batman could form the Justice League in that Seven Samurai sort of way. Moreover, that Snyder had a planned a five film story arc for Superman leading to a showdown with Darkseid. This was a pivot on his original thought about Superman when he collaborated with David S. Goyer on the Man of Steel, whereby Goyer said in an interview:

I wish Snyder and Goyer would have stuck to this idea instead, where Superman is the beacon of hope that inspires heroes to come into light, as oppose to watch actually happen in Batman v. Superman. As such, there wasn't really an emotional attachment to Superman's death in the Snyder-verse. Instead, it was the icing on the dire cake of Dawn of Justice. A decision that caused the studio to bring in Joss Whedon to reshoot the Justice League film, into what the film crew working referred to as Josstice League. (See YouTube Fatman Beyond).

 

According to Mark Hughes, Snyder and Goyer aren’t responsible for the changes. That was WB.




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Yeah, there's that article by Mark Hughes noting that WB and the casting of Ben Affleck pushed up the plans for a shared universe. However, the article also notes Batman v. Superman was a collaborative effort but it was ultimately Snyder's vision.

I think Mark Hughes recognizes despite WB's mandates, it's Snyder's vision and imprint on the film. And much like Marvel film's, there's always studio mandates and a collaborative process. In the end, it's the director that sets the tone and execution of the script. I mean, it's very obvious that Josstice League is very different from the previous Snyder films in tone and story telling.

EDIT: Mark Hughes doesn't touch upon the death of Superman, so from what I gathered, that was Snyder's decision.

 

Those were rumors. Smith's podcast on the subject seems to throw that out the window, as well as Snyder's own take on the black suit's role.

Arthur can function without water. But once back on Earth, he'd had the full resources of the ocean at his disposal.

The importance was what I posted, as well as what Smith and Snyder hinted at. That Bruce was going to die in the course of the story, probably because of his age and the impact of his numerous injuries, which in turn would leave Gotham sans one Batman. Miller's story wasn't so much a world without a Batman, but a Batman who was trying to be active despite his age and his declining health. That he was trying to deny that he was too old to continue and ultimately realizing that his time as Batman had come to an end, which is why after taking control of the Mutants and with the Joker's death, he could fake his death and move on.



His cynical nature in the comic story was born from his years of fighting a futile war, the congressional hearings, the falling out with Dick and the death of Jason. Likewise, his cynical nature in the film is along those same lines, minus the congressional hearings. Yes, Snyder cherry picked. Just like "Iron Man 2" cherry picks "Demon In The Bottle" and "Thor: Ragnaok" cherry picks the comic version.

 

I didn't say The Dark Knight Returns was about a world without Batman, but rather that it touched upon it. Remember the story starts out with a retired Batman and so crime and gangs return to run Gotham. And the TV news discusses whether Batman was even real as he's been gone for 10 years. And so, Bruce wasn't trying to be active as Batman.



And I didn't find Miller's Batman more cynical than usual, but rather highlighted to contrast Superman's persona.

Bruce put on the cape and cowl because the city of Gotham needed him again.

The following out with Dick and the death of Jason didn't make Batman cynical in Miller's story, but rather reluctant to take on another side kick. Batman felt responsible for both Dick and Jason and didn't want to endanger another young person again, until Carrie Kelley when he as no other choice to except her help.

Part of the reason Batman faked his death was to fool Superman. He knows that either he would have to kill Superman or continue to fight him. The best way to avoid future confrontations was to fake his death and go underground and train the Sons of Batman.



For the record, here's Kevin Smith's thoughts on Snyder's Batman v. Superman:

So, to say that he cherry picked the elements of the Dark Knight Returns is an understatement.

 

Thanks. I couldn’t find the article. And Nolan godfathered MOS, producing it and coming up with the story with Goyer, who wrote the screenplay. He hired Snyder who was reluctant at first and didn’t want the Big Blue Boy Scout version. Nolan loves realism and Snyder brings a gritty realism. Nolan at first rejected Superman killing Zod. But Goyer and Snyder convinced him that Superman had to in order to save innocents. But from there on Superman will always find a way to avoid killing—Doomsday in BvS I suppose being an exception. Nolan was convinced and approved.

http://comicsalliance.com/man-of-steel-christopher-nolan-disagreed-ending-zod-killing/

As Hughes notes, the team for MoS had Easter eggs to show Superman wasn’t the first and only superhero and to maybe have a shared universe. Snyder wanted a cameo for Batman for MoS 2 and then they eventually face off.

WB was underwhelmed by the MoS BO and fastrtracked BvS and JL.

For BvS Nolan was executive producer and didn’t have to approve Snyder’s killlng off Superman, but Snyder went to him for advice and Nolan thought it a good idea.

https://screencrush.com/zack-snyder-christopher-nolan-batman-vs-superman/

 

Yeah, it's been covered in this thread as to why Snyder wanted Superman to kill Zod. He wanted to put Superman in a no win situation, a " Kobayashi Maru" so he'll learn never to kill again as noted in this EW article, titled "'Man of Steel' ending: Snyder and Goyer talk Zod"

I think it's really off the mark to say that Superman needed to kill Zod so he could learn that killing is wrong.

And yeah, Snyder killed Superman so Batman could do the Seven Samurai thing, which I think is lazy writing and really shows the lack of grasp and knowledge Snyder has about the characters and DC Universe.