Amph Waiting For Superman: Gunnverse DCU/Elseworlds

I'd also like to point out that we have almost thirty continuous years of JMS demonstrating just how much WB tries to cook their books in order to screw over creators, which is why the streaming numbers are by design (as Ramza points out).

The GvK numbers doing gangbusters and us knowing about it is possibly because of contractual obligations to Legendary over the release rights of the movie (as they, Nolan, and Villeneuve were the three primary complainants on the HBO Max plans for this years)... especially because they are already talking about walking back this year's promises and not putting Dune on HBO Max day-and-date...

 

No. We can also just not speculate. I don't know why you would want to, unless it's to promote some agenda.

 

I'm not promoting any agenda. I don't have that power, nor do I want it. I'm just pointing out discrepancies and lack of information, and giving my opinion on the subject. You're free to disagree if you want, but don't ascribe to me intentions I do not have.

 

You're a staunch Snyder supporter and it's easy to tell.

Which is entirely your right. I don't mind. Nobody here does. It takes all kinds. But be honest about it.

 

This is a beautiful poem.

 

Read that Terrio interview what I was interested to see was that Zack Snyder's Justice League still isn't his entire original script (as mentioned Snyder had DC "babysitters" on set that were offering some hints or whatever), in his own words " I was frankly shocked when I saw the Snyder Cut and saw how much of the original script was shot. With some small revisions, they shot the script, and I understand that sometimes that was a battle for Zack." And also he did a rewrite before they even shot which he says he was cool with but apparently his first version was even more "dense" and darker. "I rewrote Justice League to lighten the mood a little bit—which became the Zack Snyder Justice League. That’s a slightly lighter, less dense version of the script, which I was fine with. I’m sane, and I will play ball with those kinds of notes."

 

Do I tend to like Snyder’s films? Yes. Do I also tend to prefer lengthier fare, in the style of Old Hollywood or some other directors’ cuts (such as Ridley Scott’s Gladiator one)? Yes.

That being said, neither am I blind to the fact that Snyder’s style has its faults. For example, for JL, a theatrical release might easily reduce the time to around three hours by removing some epilogues and tightening the edit of action sequences.

But what I did notice, and as did most critics, was how the Whedon version did away with quiet character moments that make us smile (such as Alfred fussing about Diana’s tea) in favour of tagged-on humour (Barry’ brunch line and the Flash on Wonder Woman bit). There’s also the cringe-worthy changes to the Lois and Martha scene (thirsty, really?). Those are only a few examples.

I mean, if the Whedon version was markedly superior to Snyder’s, I’d be the first one to lay down my arms and recognise it. But it doesn’t seem to be the case, and I put a good part of the blame on the suits.

I think they were too greedy and expected right away to make Avengers-style box office, while even the first few Marvel movies were well under the billion mark. Look, if Snyder’s version didn’t pan out after JL, own it, reboot the franchise, and no harm done.

But what they did is a course-correction midway through, and the audience and critics could feel it. To do an opera analogy, we expected something like Wagner, and were presented a clunky mess with a libretto that mixed Wagnerian grandeur with memetic Verdi stuff, so of course the whiplash was palpable (I happen to like both styles, but not simultaneously). They went from Batman potentially branding Lex to slapstick jokes in one fell swoop, which was a bit discombobulating.

The thing is, even a R-rated film can make money if the audience feels respected (see Joker as an example). So it’s not even a question of tone. All I’m saying is that there is a space where artistic expression and profit can coexist. So the careless way Snyder was treated does seem like negligence, and the lack of overt support from the studio in the form of active marketing of his cut seems to indicate that the company culture hasn’t changed too much, even if the heads did.

 

It's all unwatchable, shallow pap. I wouldn't waste too many words on it.

 

Well, OK, if that’s your opinion. We’ll just agree to disagree, then.

 

This seems pretty baseless if you ask me. This is not only essentially a rerelease of a previous film as a new cut (meaning they already spend a tonne on marketing) but if you assess it as a new film, their investment is only $70 million. Of course GvK, as a far more expensive investment, a series they probably want to continue and also being released theatrically, is getting more marketing. Given that they don’t want to continue this continuity they made an assessment of how much marketing was necessary to achieve their goals. From their point of view this is about maximising subscribers to HBOMax. Given the marketing I saw, I think it was a reasonable amount (was it really any less than the Marvel series?).

 

You see, that’s why to me it doesn’t make sense. For such a cheap investment, it’s almost free publicity for HBOMax at this point, and what harm can it do to spend a few dollars more to drive subscriptions to the roof? After all, there’s a good chance that those who subscribed for JL would also stick around for GvK. And the open-and-shut way Sarnoff talked about the project wasn’t exactly designed to inspire confidence. Why not keep it open-ended in case it succeeds beyond expectations, if they’re all about the multiverse? WB can literally have their cake and eat it, with their cinematic universe developed by Hamada with tie-ins on HBOMax, and event series produced by Snyder specifically for the streaming service so as to boost and maintain their viewership.

I guess we’ll know what’s what in a couple of weeks, at the investors meeting. Until then, all we can do is speculate.

 

Have you considered as a Snyder fan you might be overestimating the general hype for such a film, and therefore the ceiling in potential new subscribers? Also I don’t really accept the marketing was pitiful. I certainly saw a good amount.

 

Of course, I’d rather the Snyder cut did well, and I’m ready to admit to a certain bias. But I’m also willing to consider other points of view. If you saw marketing on your end, well, it’s good that there was at least some effort put in by the studio. I certainly saw nothing like that, and the movie’s release date would have completely passed me by if I weren’t actively looking for it.

As I said, we’ll see what happens in two weeks... The investors meeting will probably give us the most accurate portrait of the situation so far.

 

Meanwhile I'm just sitting here, waiting for news about the Black Adam film because I just want to see Doctor Fate in something (but please, let them do the character some justice)

 

In Canada on the TeeVee I've seen like 100 more ads for Zack Snyder's Justice League on basically every ad break (still! right now with critical accolates) as an exclusive on Crave, meanwhile the GvK marketing kept hollering "only in theatres!" and it was only switched to a digital rental 6 days before and only about 3 days before release the TV ads caught up and said "rent at home!". Although that probably has 100% more to do with ZSJI is a Bell-owned exclusive for Crave and GvK were WarnerBros Canada and they were way behind on adding it a digitial rental (and Bell to trumpet Zack Snyder's Justice League has way deeper pockets than WarnerBros Canada). Also Crave is basically in a null zone right now where it's caught up to the new release drought from March-August in 2020 so all they can advertise for 2 months for new content is just ZSJI and The Nevers. And whatever that Kate Winslet show is.

 

Yes, it is. These things depend upon continued quality content, not a one off.

 

@BigAl6ft6, @heels1785,

Well, all I can say is that in my little corner of Europe, I had to rely on word-of-mouth or actively search for information regarding the movie. I had to keep myself informed on the dates the trailers dropped, and the services where I could access the movie were only revealed a scant few days before the release date, leaving me to scramble to make sure I was registered on at least one of them. Perhaps you had a different experience, and perhaps the YouTube/social media algorithms worked better to show you WB/DC content, but on my end there was indeed not much of a push to have it marketed. So I am not "making **** up" or "creating a series of excuses", I am simply relating the facts as I lived them.

@Diggy,

So far the critics mostly seem to prefer the Snyder cut to the theatrical one (as was generally the case with BvS), so that's a pretty good indicator that the problem might rather be with corporate mismanagement of the franchise rather than with the artistic process. You can't change the basic nature of a project midway through and not expect it to suffer from the decision.

 

@laurethiel1138

thanks for replying to my post and not addressing a single word of it.

 

@Diggy,

I was simply saying that if the studio suits kept with what they did best (making money) and left the creative side to the filmmakers, maybe the quality wouldn't suffer so much and the franchise would have had half a chance at being actually successful.

@heels1785,

The first quote was the information I had from what seemed to me reliable sources on the Internet, and it seemed to mesh with what I knew personally, so I didn't question it at the time. I've also said that I was happy to know it wasn't the case in all locations, based partly on your own words. All I ask is that you also respect my own experience and not accuse me of blatantly lying, because that's absolutely not a habit of mine.

EDIT: Maybe WB had different marketing strategies around the world? It's not that far-fetched a concept...

 

I mean, are we going with European advertising anecdotes? Because in that case I lost all patience for how nice Zack Snyder may or may not be IRL because every time he popped up on YouTube excited to give me a first look at his version of Justice League with helpful Czech subtitles so as to preserve his voice for some reason, I wanted to knock his goddamn block off. I saw that ****ing thing so many times I lost count. There is a post in the First World Problems thread from about that time where I longed for the return of different annoying ads. I’m currently experiencing an inundation of Lady Gaga Oreo crap that still isn’t as pervasive as Justice League.

That’s the problem with anecdotes. They’re anecdotes. They’re certainly not good evidence regarding advertising practices, and yes, pretending they are is disingenuous at best, patience taxing when you’re trying to dance around promoting conspiracy theories under the guise of asking questions.

 

@laurethiel1138

if you aren’t addressing my post specifically, don’t @ me. It’s just rudely wasting my valuable time.