Was Darth Sidious really too dangerous to be left alive?

Would Mace have been right to kill Darth Sidious or should he have allowed him to stand trial?

 

He probably already had a secret trapdoor built into the prisoner's box just in case.

 

Sidious knew that he wasn't going end up in trial. Things were rigged his way.

 

Would Mace be right? There was no "right" remaining for the Jedi at this point in the saga.

They allowed the Sith to gain control of the Senate, the master to hold the highest position in the Republic, while manipulating and marginalizing the Jedi through the war he started and controlled from both sides.

Kill Palpatine and stand trial for treason, or let him live and die as traitors -- either way, the order was hosed.

 

The Order was doomed either way, so it really didn't matter if they were "right" or not in their actions.

 

I think Mace should have killed him, though that really wasn't the Jedi way. Look what Anakin did to Dooku. He killed him when he shouldn't have.

 

He truely was too dangerous to be left alive, as he had no conscious and he would just lie and manipulate people to get things his way. If he was set in a jail with a gaurd, he would manipulate the gaurd to let him out and help him escape; or in a trial he would manipulate the jury or judge and get let off or a light sentence.

Or he might just use his considerable Force abilites to hack through the Jedi until he was free.

Since he was amoral, he had no inclination to turn towards a less evil way, as he didn't see anything wrong with what he was doing in the first place.

Looking at these all together, Mace should have offed him. I know killing such an opponant who is unarmed is not considered the Jedi way, but there is such a thing as being too 'legalistic' in this case, especially when this legalism ended up stifling reasoning and common sense. And this stifling led to many people dying on a doomed planet.

 

I agree that the Jedi had no great answer here.

The best thing they could have done is imprison Sidious (they've successfully imprisoned Force-users like Depa Billaba and Kar Vastor) and tell the Senate that it's Jedi business.

If the Senate said "what happened to the Chancellor?", they could say he was thrown out the window by Darth Sidious. If Sidious tried to say that he was the Chancellor, hopefully the Jedi would just laugh or something. Or tell them he was in league with Dooku for the entire Clone Wars.

 

But Dooku was truly defenseless after he lost his hands. Palpatine hasn't lost his which means he can still shoot lightning bolts from his fingers which makes him still dangerous.

 

Palpatine could probably have fried Mace at any point in time during that fight, but he wanted Anakin to turn to the dark side first.

 

It's like Yoda said, the Jedi were delving into murky waters. Killing Palpatine would have been wrong under just about any circumstances....except he did pose a very clear and present danger to the Republic.

 

Letting Palpatine live is much more wrong than killing him as is shown after Anakin betrays Mace. Palpatine's death could've prevented the events of the 2nd half of ROTS and the OT events from happening.

 

That's an argument that leads to one of the most difficult ethical questions: do the ends sometimes justify the means?

 

Only if you knew what the future held.

 

Another example of the Jedi only dealing in absolutes.

 

Palpatine/Sidious was a man who created a war that killed trillions across the galaxy. He was a conspirator and should have been arrested by the Jedi Order. Mace Windu went to arrest him and was attacked. Mace then defended himself accordingly. Palpatine/Sidious was bested in the duel(or maybe not but that's still up to debate) and then surrendered.

Here's the tricky part. After Palpatine/Sidious surrenders he then attacks Mace Windu again with force lightning. That shows us two things.

1) He didn't honor his own surrender.
2) It doesn't matter if he's unarmed or not. He can still kill someone with the force lightning that he produces.

Now yes, he does say he is too weak to keep fighting but this is obviously a lie as he ends up frying poor Sam Jackson like three seconds later.

So, since Palpatine/Sidious still has the capability to kill someone(with his electric fingers) and Mace Windu is acting as a police officer in this instance he has the right to react with deadly force i.e. kill the Sith Lord.

As far as I'm concerned it's black and white.

And before anyone else says it. No, maybe being a Sith Lord isn't a crime in the Republic. And yeah, for the time being there isn't any hard evidence linking the Chancellor to the war, but here is an example. If you're charged with murder, even if you're innocent, if the cops go to your house to arrest you and you start shooting at them, they have the right to shoot back.

 

Letting Palpatine live is much more wrong than killing him as is shown after Anakin betrays Mace.
Ahhh, but did Anakin betray Mace or, did Mace (and the order) betray Anakin ?

ANAKIN: He won't give up his power. I've just learned a terrible truth. I think Chancellor Palpatine is a Sith Lord.

MACE WINDU: A Sith Lord?

ANAKIN: Yes. The one we have been looking for.

MACE WiNDU: How do you know this?

ANAKIN: He knows the ways of the Force. He has been trained to use the dark side.

MACE WiNDU: Are you sure?

ANAKIN: Absolutely.

MACE WiNDU: Then our worst fears have been realized. We must move quickly if the Jedi Order is to survive.

ANAKIN: Master, the Chancellor is very powerful. You will need my help if you are going to arrest him.

MACE WiNDU: For your own good, stay out of this affair. I sense a great deal of confusion in you, young Skywalker. There is much fear that clouds your judgment.

ANAKIN: I must go, Master.

MACE WiNDU: No. If what you told me is true, you will have gained my trust, but for now remain here.

ANAKIN: Yes, Master.

MACE WiNDU: Wait for us in the Council Chamber until we return.

ANAKIN: Yes, Master.


It probably boils down to that whole "from a certain point of view" thing.

 

Yes he was, by that point in the saga he controlled the senate. He didn't have to be emperor, the senate bended to his will and hung on his every word anyway. Apparent in the fact of when he gave his speech to form the empire there was no opposition. Democracy died with roaring applause if you will. He would of never stood trial, vanished and still been at large. From Mace's point of view the only way to end it all was to end him. Makes sense, I think Anakins stubbornness despite the fact it was fueled by self-interest shows a flaw in the Jedi's way of thinking that got them to that point chronologically. If they had been more flexible in their rules and regulations to begin with one could make a sound argument that the whole story would of been very different.

 

Let me play devil's advocate for a moment. Basically, Mace Windu's reasoning was as follows:

I and my co-religionists are going to stage a coup against the democratically elected head of the government on the grounds that he is of a different denomination of my religion. I believe that he is responsible for many innocent people being killed, but on the grounds that I think he is too dangerous I think he should be denied due process. I will therefore take the law into my own hands and arrest or assassinate this democratically elected official.

It's interesting to note that at the end of ROTJ, we see celebrations on planets all over the Galaxy, including Coruscant. We know that the entire Empire was not obliterated with the Death Star II's destruction. There were still plenty of Imperial officers and stormtroopers throughout the Galaxy. You can even see a trooper being helplessly passed around on the hands of the celebrants on Coruscant. We can probably imply that the average Galactic citizen had a hand in defeating the Empire, perhaps as much as the Rebellion.

Maybe if the Jedi had held a press conference and told the whole Galaxy about their suspicions regarding Palpatine, including their concerns about the courts being compromised and the Senate being under his influence, Palpatine might have found consolidating his power a lot harder than it turned out to be when Mace and the Jedi thought they were above the law and just plain smarter than all those non-Force sensitive rubes comprising the Galactic populace.

 

Mace didn't go to arrest Palpatine just because he was a SITH. He went to arrest him because he was in charge of the Separatists, the opposing faction of the war that the Republic was currently engaged in. It wouldn't have mattered whethered Palpatine was a SIth Lord of a Frycook at McDonalds. What he was doing was illegal.

 

^That.

Although I think actually proving anything against him with Dooku dead would be a practical impossibility; Dooku was the only other person who knew about the entire plot and Sidious' dual identity.


There is a third option, from the EU- strip Palpatine of his connection to the Force. Whether or not any of the Jedi in prequel times knew how to do that in an open question, I think-it hasn't been done since 4,000 years ago or so.

 

The Jedi can't have it any way they want. Either they follow the code or give up the ghost. They would have fried Anakin if he'd told them what really happened with Dooku - yet Master Mace can arbitrarily make the same decision and it be okay? I don't think so. Imprison the man if a trial would not come out fairly. They know he's been behaving rottenly and a Sith - but you don't simply kill an unarmed man. He wasn't unarmed WE know - but Mace didn't know. Anakin was right - but asserting the right opinion for all the wrong reasons. Mace was wrong, but he really felt he was right. Bascially, you had the two Exactly wrong Jedi there at the time - the Vaapad King and the Menacing Chosen One. Mace didn't listen to Anakin - cuz if he had, he'd of been wary and got some more info after Anakin declared he "needed the Chancellor". What?????? What would a Jedi need a Sith Lord, Separatist controlling Chancellor for? Mace didn't bother asking...his bad. Anakin was hyperventallating and out of control and lost his sense of reason somewhere along the line. So you have these two dudes + Sidious = big mess. But I still think if Mace had followed the code to the letter - which would include shutting Palpy up without a trial, seeing as the Senate was corrupt - then we'd of had a better outcome - or at least a different one. And Anakin should have worked harder all along to control his emotions, because in moments like these, the "chosen one" has power he knows not and can cause his own destruction - as well as the destruction of everyone around him. A comedy of errors, but not too funny. So no, Darth Sidious was not too dangerous to keep alive; having Mace and Anakin in control of the situation was what was too dangerous.

 

Let's see here:

A guy who made both sides of the war for poilitical gain.

A guy who used both Jedi & Sith to gain power.

A guy who wanted to be a dictator.

A guy who targeted a young Jedi to be a Sith Lord so he could maintain his power....

Yeah he was too dangerous.

 

xx_Anakin_xx

So no, Darth Sidious was not too dangerous to keep alive; having Mace and Anakin in control of the situation was what was too dangerous.

I partly agree with that. Mace & Anakin could hold him for a while, contact Yoda, other Jedi, and politicians loyal to the republic, not the chancellor!.. and togheter they could make a wiser decision. I dont know what that would be though. Palpatine control everything. So i think that in the end he is actually to dangerous. Mace freaked out when he was told palpatine was a sith lord, one can understand his reaction, but he made a very bad decision in confronting the chancellor like he did. They gave Palpatine exactly what he wanted, its like the Jedi placed themselves open for checkmate, a terrible move. So when they made this move, the Jedi became the traitors, and Palpatine the victime, so after this he was to dangerous to be left alive.

 

If they left him alive Cad Bane would have rescued him.

For a fee, of course.