Was Darth Vader really "evil"?

I argue yes, but a friend of mine (who says he has an account here... drop a hello if you read this thread), argues that Vader was never really evil, and that he was only going through the actions in order to keep his rank.

Maybe I'm missing something. Where'd he get this?

 

Meh. It is just a word game.

But if anyone is "evil", Vader qualifies quite easily.

 

Even going thru the motions to keep your rank is evil if the acts you are doing are evil.

Vader was evil, if he wasn't his redemption would be pointless.

 

It depends on how you look at it. Was he evil well many of his acts were evil. So in that sense he was evil. But at the same time you have to look at it from the fact that he does not see it as evil. But really for the most part until he faced Luke on the 2nd Death Star and got ready of Palps yeah he was evil.

 

I have always held to the thought that he wasn't originally evil, meaning as Anakin, but he "turned" evil. He definately did evil things-and became evil, due to his anger/hatred and his need for revenge and power.

I don't think however that he was truly evil in his very nature, at least not in the way that the Emperor was. By that I mean unredeemable. That is TRUE evil. Vader did evil acts which made him an evil person, for he is still responsible for his actions, but he (as George Lucas has said) he was more the victim really, than the villain.

"He was deceived by a lie, we all were" as Obi-Wan said. I feel that his mind was twisted to give in to evil-more, selfish desires, but that doesn't mean he is truly evil at heart. I think that's why we are shown Anakin as a kid in TPM, to show his "innocence," as it were...That idea is key to the point of his ability to be redeemed, giving in to the good he did have in himself in the end.

 

Meh, we're all "doing the right thing" from our own points of view. That doesn't somehow make you not evil, because it's not up to you to make judgement calls about your behavior; society does that because humans are group animals. And for both our societies-and in-and out-universe, I don't think child murder is not frowned upon.

So yep, Vader is considered evil.

 

Darth Vader doesn?t start out as being evil. He thinks he?s doing the right thing; saving his wife, restoring peace and order to the galaxy and so forth.

But then we see him in OT. He?s killing and torturing people without even blinking (well, presumably). Of course you can argue that he?s been led astray and manipulated and perhaps still believes he?s doing what is necessary for the galaxy, but he still makes active choices to kill and slaughter people. I would definitely call that as being evil.

 

I agree.



But I guess, from my own POV, I see a difference between being "pure" evil, (Like Sidious) and just an "evil person" (based on their deeds.) The emperor could not be changed-he was evil to the core. But Vader, even after all he had chosen to do, was still able to let the good that was always still in him, (however deep, dark and hidden away), finally win over him.


I guess in just a few words, I think there is "evil nature," and then there is "evil action". And I believe Darth Vader was the latter.

 

Anakin Skywalker was a good guy. He just had conflicts.

Darth Vader was evil. He knowingly did the wrong thing, justifying his means by their ends.

Eventually, of course, he learned better and renounced that, and sacrficed himself to save his son, which is why that sixth film is called "Return of the Jedi".

 

He willingly killed younglings....that would define him as "evil" for sure, in my book.

 

I don't think Anakin started out being evil. I think in order to get what he wanted and needed (for Padme to live) he accepted evil.
Darth Vader was evil though. I think Anakin was very conflicted though. I don't think he wanted to ever be evil but it just over took him.

 

Why would Anakin turn evil and why did he give into Darth Sidious was it chancellor Papalatines fault

 

That is a completely different question to the one asked, but in answer Anakin turned because what he saw was a helpless old man, an old man that could also save his wife, about to be slaughtered by the second most powerfull jedi master. It was his love and attachment to Padme, Palpatine and the Republic that caused him to turn. His overwhelming evil came from the best intentions.

 

And I'd like to add that Anakin hardly came across as a gem of a guy before his supposed turn.

Killing innocents in AOTC combined with his general demeanor saw to that.

 

As far as the question of whether or not Darth Vader was truly "evil" or not, remember George Lucas' statement that no one who does evil actually thinks of themselves as doing evil. Or even if they do know deep down that it's evil, then they usually manage to convince themselves or con themselves into believing that it's all for some greater good. (To Padme: "I will not betray the Republic. My loyalties lie with the Chancellor...and the Senate...and you." Hmmmmm...interesting order he put those things in, no?)

The thing is, once somebody decides to go down a dark path and commit evil acts, they have to somehow con themselves or make rationalizations. Otherwise, how else would they be able to look at themselves in the mirror in the morning? When Yoda says to Obi-Wan, "Twisted by the Dark Side young Skywalker has become. The boy you trained, gone he is, consumed by Darth Vader." You could perhaps consider this a kind of metaphor for what happens to people's minds in real life once they turn to evil. And this "twisting" and "consumption" is basically the human ego struggling to maintain a righteous front in the face of heinous or immoral acts.

 

Your not missing anything,it's something that people do not just with SW but with other stories also.It's to make SW and the person saying it appear deeper then it really is.

There's nothing really black and white about SW.Who's good and evil,what's right and wrong is pretty well established.Just about everything DV does is evil.

 

Anakin wasn't an evil person, as someone before me said. He was just very conflicted and he thought he was doing what he had to to save Padme. He was naive to think that, but not evil. (And I agree that killing the Sandpeople was wrong, and that was a severe error in judgement)

When he renounced his former self and became Darth Vader he did many evil things, so essentially yes Darth Vader was evil.

 

He was best in ANH when he was straight out the baddest ass in the galaxy.

 

He did many evil things, but he had some good in him and that prevailed over his evil side.

 

...who took orders from a crusty Muggle.

 

A minor indignity compared with what followed.

 

Most of the time the biggest badass takes orders from someone.Usually the thing that makes them great doesn't make them an effective leader.How many time have you seen a show or movie and the super smart or weasly bad guy has the cool badass number 2 henchman?

 

It's all perception. Anakin thought he was doing the right thing to secure Padme's safety. I don't believe he ever truly wanted to join Palpatine once he knew he was a Sith Lord, but he was so mind-numbingly, head-over-heels in love with his wife (which no one can fault him for loving his wife unconditionally) that he couldn't think clearly and rationally about the decisions he was making. In his mind, the end was all that mattered, and the means definitely justified the ends if it meant that Padme was going to be safe.

No one sets out to be a villian (for the most part).

I will say that he did some very evil things, such as killing the younglings. Slaughtering and butchering children? Those of us with children usually cringe during that scene. It is very disturbing.

Ultimately, even evil people can be redeemed and saved. It usually involves self-sacrifice, and for Anakin, that sacrifice was his own life, but he gave it to save his son.

 

Yeah, this is true. The badass in a movie often isn't the top of the chain of command because he's generally not interested in all the kissing and sucking that's required to work his way up the management structure. Look at Dirty Harry. He was always subordinate to some pencil neck in an office. He paid lip service to the chain of authority and then did it his own way. I reckon Vader should have been kept as that kind of character and the Emperor should have been kept as a stuffy bureaucrat somewhere unseen.