Was Mace Windu's mistake leaving Anakin behind?

Agreed.Mace should have ordered the immediate recall of all the senior Knigths and Masters currently offworld, locked down the Temple and taken at least 20 to 30 Jedi to go get Sidious and yes, so long as Obi-wan is also present, I would definetly take Anakin.

 

Ouch! I agree he was way overconfident and severely underestimated Palpatine. I think he went wrong when trying destroy Palpatine/Sidious instead of bringing him in to stand trial. However, I'd have to jump off the train at the 'he got what he had coming' stop.

 

I think Mace kind of made a mistake in leaving Anakin behind because it only further alienated him. The way the Jedi treated Anakin in Episode 3 should be questioned.

 

Why would the Jedi want to bring a Jedi whom they felt was deeply conflicted to confront a Sith Lord whose specialty was deception and manipulation?

 

It wouldn't matter. Palpatine would kill as many, including Obi-wan who is no match for him as Yoda said. And sooner or later, Anakin would join Palpatine because of the overwhelming numbers. He would panic at the thought of Palpatine dying and thus start killing Jedi as well, until they were the only ones standing. Yoda and Mace would be killed as well. The power of the two strongest Sith would be too much for them.

 

I agree. I think Mace kind of under estimated Palpatine. But in doing so he thought he had enough help. Obviously he didn't.

 

Mace did fine. His crew sucked big ones..

 

And no droid could possibly kill a Jedi, but if you have 100 of them they stand a fair chance (you remember Geonosis?)
That is jumping to the wrong conclusions Sinister
Palpatine would not be able to take out 30 Jedi Knights - he would have to leave his guard open at one time, and that would be enough - fighting two on your front, two on your back, two on your right, and two on your left would be impossible even for him - especially with the likes of Mace present!

Also, if OBW could single handedly take out Anakin, Mace best Sideous and Yoda draw with Sideous you have nothing to base your theory on.

Mace should have consulted with other Jedi - he was in no immediate rush!

 

Mace should have consulted with other Jedi - he was in no immediate rush!


One might as well say the same about Yoda's attempt to kill Palpatine.

Mind you, there were no Jedi left to consult, but his decision to go after the Emperor was rash. And like Mace, he paid the price for it. Not in death, but in the humiliating realization that he had made a big mistake.

 

I see your point, but you have to agree that their scenarios were quite different? Yoda only had OBW to consult with, and he sent him to take care of Anakin. They actually debated what they should do. Mace should have consulted with Yoda via a hologram - that's his only mistake as far as I'm concerned - that and bringing more with him. What harm could that do?

 

Mace was killed just like the rest of them. The only reason he lasted longer was because Palpatine drug out the fight until Anakin could arrive. I'm not sure how it would have played out if Anakin would have went with the posse.

 

Yep, Mace went into the fight emotional, arrogant, and with no plan at all. Quite different from what we were led the Jedi ideals to be, and the results followed.

 

I'm still wondering why Mace is supposed to want to bring a Jedi that's incredibly conflicted to confront a Sith who specializes in deceit and manipulation.

 

If Obi-wan is there, along with Anakin, then Sidious is DEFINETLY going down. Remember, Anakin displayed an incredibly deep sense of loyalty towards, Obi-wan. He wouldn't abandon him when his fighter was falling apart during the Battle of Coruscant and insisted on taking Obi-wan with him when escaping from the Invisible Hand. Even after he turned, Anakin was willing to let Obi-wan walk away on Mustafar. If Sidious so much as harms a hair on Obi-wan's head, Sidious dies. Its that simple.

 

You're forgetting, Yoda knew it was wise to go after the Sith when they were apart then together. That's why he sent Obi-wan to find Anakin while he dealt with Sidious. And Anakin's betrayal would be such a surprise, that more Jedi would die. There's also something else. Against blaster bolts it's more difficult than against Lightsabers.

Actually, he did in the novelization. He contacted Yoda and was given the go ahead.

One thing. Remember what Palpatine said to Anakin and what Lucas told Hayden.

PALPATINE: "Only through me can you achieve a power greater than any Jedi. Learn to know the dark side of the Force, Anakin, and you will be able to save your wife from certain death."

PALPATINE: "You do know, don't you, if the Jedi destroy me, any chance of saving her will be lost."


"Try and increase how uncomfortable you feel as the shot goes on. Try to think back on the Darth Plagueis story-run that through your head. Take it one step further: you realize that by telling the Jedi about Palpatine being a Sith that Padme is going to die. Basically, you just killed her."

--George Lucas To Hayden Christensen, The Making Of ROTS.

If the Jedi destroy Palpatine, Padme dies. He will choose her over his friendship to Obi-wan. He cannot risk her dying by staying loyal to the Jedi. Palpatine will do what he did against Mace and thus ensure that Anakin will join him in battle.

PALPATINE: "I am your pathway to power. I have the power to save the one you love. You must choose. You must stop him."

As to what he said to Obi-wan on Mustafar, he wasn't that sincere. He knew that Obi-wan would not leave there. Nor did he really want him to. He wanted to destroy him for holding him back.

 

Wasn't Yoda planning on taking them by surpise rather than a team-up situation? They had to get to Sideous before he got untouchable!

If blaster bolts are more efficient than lightsabers against another lightsaber then why didn't Qui-Gon and OBW just let the guards on Naboo have their way with Maul? There is nothing to support what you're saying here.

And Anakin's betrayal would be such a surprise, that more Jedi would die. - what exactly do you mean by this?

But he didn't in the film did he...

 

QFT...

Bingo. Master Windu died for a noble cause, and went out with guns blazing. The thing that sucks is there was more to their duel that was cut, Mace got slammed by the force and recovered... I would have loved to have seen that.

You underestimate the resolve of the reigning Dark Lord of the Sith? If 'Three of the Finest' were dispatched in less than 12 seconds what makes you so certain that Sidious would not cut through 30 Knights as if they were warm butter? The Jedi Masters were unprepared for him in close quarters, if those 30 you speak of were to come and him in waves of two from all sides, then they would die in groups of four from two strikes of his saber.

If a Jedi can make seven cuts by allowing the Force to flow, then I find it reasonable to believe a Sith could easily make 15 cuts when summoning the Force and tapping into their emotions.(I had to throw that in there) The Jedi would get mowed down in moments. Also they would be reluctant to use the Force for fear of striking another Jedi, Sidious would have no such limitations.

Personally, I think it would have been much darker if Anakin struck them down from behind when they went to arrest him. That would have been twisted... and made the youngling thing more believable as well.

Now voo, it was a long flight over... I mean the sun went down... they had time to draw up a good one like... "lets walk in and whip out our light-sabers, its 4 to one, he'll come quietly."

As evidenced by his demeanor during their duel, he stalked Kenobi. (and yes, Kenobi was smart enough to keep drawing him out.) But I hardly believe that Obi Wan could have pressed the offensive like Vader did and for as long... on the platform he looked spent, and Vader wasn't even breathing hard.


"This is the end for you my Master..."
-- I'd say he was bent on destroying Obi-Wan, that he relished the thought even.

 

Not really surprise. He was just making it clear that they had to do this now and not wait for them to get back together.

Because they needed Maul alive to question.

They wouldn't expect Anakin to turn on them in the middle of battle, just as Mace didn't count on Anakin turning.

You don't know that he didn't in the film. There's a lot of time between when they left and when the fight began.

 

But if Anakin came with the Mace Windu posse and sees that Palpatine was never in any danger when he slaughters all 4 of them, Anakin will realize that Palps tricked him into turning against the Jedi and that he sees Anakin as nothing more than an expendable asset. PalpSidious knows that Anakin will never join him if he killed off Mace before Anakin could arrive to save him which is why Palps had to make himself look weak and defenseless so that Anakin will question Mace's judgement thus leading to his betrayal.

That original scene with Anakin already in Palps's office before Mace showed up to arrest PalpSidious would lead the audience into thinking that Anakin is already a Sith Lord from the moment he killed Dooku. That would make both Obi-wan and the Jedi completely stupid because Anakin has been around them the entire time and they couldn't sense the Dark Side within him before he turned traitor? People would be cheering for PalpSidious to initiate Order 66 to kill the entire Jedi Order and Lucas didn't want that to happen which is why he changed the scene.

 

I don't think it would have mattered. By the time Mace left to confront the Palpatine, Anakin's loyalty to the Jedi is already broken. Had Anakin accompanied Mace, I think the outcome would have been much the same.

 

Yes, but remember that Palpatine would cause the same situation to happen. He would kill the other Jedi Masters and then fight Mace. And as in the original version of the scene, Mace would overwhelm Palpatine and then we'd have the Sith Lightining. It'd be the exact same thing. Palpatine would make himself look incapable of defending himself and he would get Mace to change his mind about arresting him. This would result in Anakin betraying Mace.

The Jedi couldn't even sense the dark side in Palpatine. Lucas changed the scene not because Anakin was already evil, but because he was told that Anakin needed to struggle with turning. That he should open up this part of the film and put more work in it. He took his friends advice and redid it. Hell, as it is, people already were cheering for the Stormtroopers to kill the Jedi, because of how they were portrayed in the PT.

 

"Master Yoda! You're still alive"
"Surprised?"

Remember that?
There was nothing in the movies that suggested that they couldn't move on them as they were together - I believe, and it is just an opinion, that Yoda thought it would be impossible to reach Sideous after!

Fair enough

I know what happened in the films - I don't know what happened in between the films. What the film shows is that Mace spoke to Anakin, then right after engaged Sideous - it didn't hint at him talking to anyone!

 

There is nothing suggested, but it is also common sense. Two Sith together are more dangerous than one. Thus divide and conquer. Take note that once Yoda leaves the fight, Palpatine senses that Lord Vader is danger and needs his help. He orders Mas Amedda to have Captain Kagi prepare his shuttle for immediate departure, once he arrives. One Sith Lord was too much for Yoda. Two would be even worse and Obi-wan cannot defeat Palpatine, by Yoda's own admission. Note that Maul, in order to win, had to separate the two Jedi he fought.

That and Maul has a double-bladed saber. Twice the blocking power.

Yet nothing disproves it either.

 

The reason that Mace and the other Jedi were going to the Chancellor?s office in the first place was because Grievous had been killed and they were to remove him from power even before Mace found out that Palps was the Sith Lord. They wanted to ensure he stepped down as he had agreed to before he exercised more of his emergency powers. Remember that the Jedi had grown to mistrust Palps. The addition of the Sith into the mix created even more urgency so I don?t think there was an option of waiting for other Jedi, Obi-Wan and Yoda in particular to return.

Anakin had made the decision to tell Mace about Palpatine, knowing at that time that Padme?s fate was sealed in doing so. It wasn?t until he had time to mull it over in the Council Chambers that he decided to in effect, rush to Papatine?s aid. It is possible that if Anakin had gone along with the other Jedi, that his resolve to see the Sith removed would have remained, if he?d not had the time to reflect again on Padme?s fate. Even if Sidious had brought up the issue, Anakin might have held onto his anger, the sense of betrayal he felt at finding out Palp?s deception, regardless of Palpatine?s promise.