WATCHING SW IN SEQUENCE

I really think the OT should be watched first, then the PT. What makes the PT so cool is to know how everything goes downhill, and to see what greatness is lost. You get a glimpse of the heyday of the republic, the jedi, and Anakin, knowing the darkness that is to follow. It's pathos that you feel that way. When Anakin is slaughtering the tuskens it makes it that much worse to know that this little episode is not an isolated incident, but a major stepping stone into becoming Darth Vader - again, this heightens the audience's emotions towards the scene.

If it's not broken don't fix it. If it works 4-6 then 1-3, then don't watch it 1-6. Because the worst reaction you might then get out of the audience is "who cares?! Why am I watching this?". YIKES!

For example, lets looks at the other tragedies in the past, like from Shakespeare. The whole good thing about them is to know that the character you are reading about in the first couple acts will get totally screwed up, and then die because of some personal flaw. You know that because you know the pattern of tragedies. In Star Wars, you don't realize it's a tragedy until the very end. But then again, did the original audience of Hamlet in Elizabethan times know Hamlet was a tragedy?

I'm getting confused.

 

I think it could be interesting either way. Watching Luke succeed first and looking back on why Anakin failed is interesting. And the argument that watching TPM first hurts the saga is kind of repetitive because it doesn't have the feel of a SW movie.

I will watch them in order though. In addition, we don't truly know the impact of Episode III yet on the saga. Seeing the fall of the Republic is a pivotal point, but only if you watch it in sequence, if not, it's more like a side note.

 

This is my third attempt at posting this -- it's been locked twice, so maybe third time is a charm --

The surprise at the end of "The Empire Strikes Back" is one of the greatest surprises in movie history. But if you watch the Star Wars films in the intended order, this surprise will be ruined.

So here is a way to watch the Star Wars films that actually improves the whole thing:

Episode 4
Episode 5
Episode 1
Episode 2
Episode 3
Episode 6

Episode 4 - We are introduced to the Star Wars world. We learn what the Force is from Ben Kenobi. We learn about Vader killing Luke's father. We are introduced to Darth Vader and all our favorite heros.

Episode 5 - Luke receives his training, he meets Yoda, who he expects to be a great warrior, but is instead a short green alien. Later, he confronts Darth Vader, and learns Vader is indeed his father, Anakin. "Ben, why didn't you tell me?" he asks.

From here, we now flash back:

Episode 1 - We meet Anakin at a young age, see the Republic before it was the Empire. We still haven't met the Emperor yet, so the shock of Palpatine's identity in Episode III is maintained.

Episode 2 - We see the young adult Anakin and his relationship with Obi-Wan Kenobi. We see the Republic slowly becoming the Empire. We see the beginning of how Anakin began to fall to the Dark Side.

Episode 3 - Palpatine is revealed as the Evil Darth Sidious, and we see him sieze power. We see Anakin fall to the Dark Side. We see the birth of the twins, one of which we know as Luke. We see the battle between Obi-Wan and Anakin, how Anakin came to become more machine than man. We see the birth of the rebellion.

Then, we flash-forward

Episode 6 - Return of the Jedi, indeed. After watching the series in this way, we've retained the shock of Vader's revelation, we maintain the surprise of Palpatine's revelation, but now we learn who the "other" was that Yoda spoke of -- the other twin whose identity we did not learn in Episode III. It's Leia! We also know what a good man Anakin used to be, and we know how and why he fell. Therefore, when the final climax occurs, both the Prequel Trilogy plotlines and the Original Triology plotlines are all tied up in one film. We will be very excited to see Luke fighting Vader because we know how Vader fell, and we see the Emperor trying to push Luke into the same trap. The benefit of watching the series this way is that the greatest twist ending in the history of the movies (Vader telling Luke he is Luke's father) isn't ruined.

It really works!

This is the order that the Star Wars films should be viewed in for the greatest possible enjoyment and suspense:

4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 6!

What do you think?

 

If I could watch the films for the first time, I'd watch them in the intended order;
1,
2,
3,
4,
5,
6

Maybe it won't be a surprise that Vader is Luke's father, but that hasn't been much of a shocker to me since 1980. However, it's still a "surprise" in terms of the films, because it's still a revelation to Luke. The audience will still realise that Luke's world has just been blown apart, which is what the surprise is really all about.

Once 1-3 have been completed, and we have seen Anakin reject everything in his life and become Darth Vader, even himself considering Anakin as "dead", then there will be a new surprise when he acknowledges his life before becoming Vader and tells Luke that he is his father.

 

I_Love_George_W_Bush, I think you are on to something here. I like your rationale.

 

If you want shockers from watching Star Wars, watch it chronologically, because when you get to EpIII - BANG!! The whole galaxy turns upside down!

Gasp when Chancellor Palpatine turns the oblivious Republic into an evil Empire! Watch as he reveals his true identity as the cruel despot that he is and declares himself Galactic Emperor.
Experience the unexpected turn of the good-natured hero Anakin Skywalker. Observe with horror as he gets impossibly disfigured and becomes a Sith Lord, who then sets out on a crusade to exterminate the Jedi!!!
Weep as Padmé Amidala is lowered into the earth, after separating her baby twins to save them from the evil hands of their own father. A whole galaxy mourns her tragic death and prays that someday, her children will carry on the legacy of justice.

BING-BADABOOM!!!!

"I am your father" was a great piece of shock back in 1980, but compared to this, it´s nothing, trust me.
Please don´t deny your first-time viewers the opportunity to experience the really shocking tragedy that EpIII can provide.

 

Look on in bafflement as Obi-Wan lies to Luke.
Look on in bafflement as Yoda acts like Grover in a charade to test Luke's patience.
Yawn as Yoda proclaims, "There is another." because you already know Luke has a sibling.
Y[/b]awn as Vader reveals his true identity.

There is no shock at seeing the Republic become the Empire if we don't even know what the Empire is. They don't even explain the Force in Episode I. They don't explain the Jedi mind trick. Don't explain what a Jawa is, what a sandperson is, so their cameos have no impact. Who is Jabba? Don't know. They have yet to even explain the "light" and "dark" sides of the Force -- they've spent more time on midichlorians than they have on the Force itself.

My order is the best of both worlds -- you get to experience Star Wars and Empire with all the INTENDED surprises intact, then flash back to see how Anakin became Vader, then return to the classic trilogy for the final resolution.

It's like watching Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom before watching Raiders -- the in-jokes don't make sense, don't have impact...and yet in Lucas' timeline, Temple of Doom takes place before Raiders. Despite Lucas' chosen timeline, in order to get the maximum enjoyment out of the Indy films, you have to watch them in the order they were made.

With Star Wars, in order to preserve the intended impact of Empire Strikes Back, from the surprise of Yoda's identity, to the surprise of Vader's true identity, and the mysteries in Empire (why did Ben lie? Who is "the other"?), you can't watch the prequel-sequels first. I know they have a numbered order on them, that's to let you know where they fall in the timeline. That doesn't mean you have to watch them in that order.

4,5,1,2,3,6

Learn it. Live it. Love it.

 

I_Love_George_W_Bush, 4,5,1,2,3,6 is the way to go, you are absolutely right.

There is no denying that if you have not seen 4 (and probably 5), 1,2,3 will be very inaccessable to you. No one in 1 explains to the audience what the Force is, who the Jedi are, etc. The way the movie is written is to assume the audiene is already familar with these concepts. Similarly, there is no denying that 6 is the grand finale-- it must be watched last. Further, 6 is the only time in the OT when Vader shows any conflict between "Darth" and "Anakin" -- that is to say, 4,5 (up to the reveal) don't even suggest that there's more to Vader than just Vader. His characterization is almost nonexsistant. Watching the trilogy 1-6 is rendered less effective because it introduces Anakin as the protagonist of the story, then promptly forgets all about him for 2 episodes. Watching OT, PT is okay and certainly the way it is "intended" to be watched, but 4,5,1,2,3,6 enchances the overall storytelling experience through better placement of the character beats. Good work, I_Love_George_W_Bush.

 

In TPM, it's all explained, just differently than it is in ANH. I like it better that way.


ANH tells us. TPM shows us.

 

Call me Dubya. It's easier.

 

I think, for introduction purposes, "saying" it is better than just "showing" it.

In ANH the audience gets into the world of SW through the eyes of Luke. We get a definition of what the Force is. We get a definition of what a mind trick is, ect.

In TPM we are thrown into a world were we see Jedi Knights (Jedi who? Who cares?) running, jumping, climbing trees...ect.

In my view, the PT is just that, a prequel. It is written so that people who already saw the OT get a better backstory to the characters and the plot, ect.

And I absolutely refuse to let new generations be robbed of one of the best moments in moviemaking:

"No, I am your father!"[/i[

 

i think were all imagining some bright future where a race of human beings might exist that dont know already that Darth is Lukes father. I dont think that will ever happen though, unless there is a collective "shush!" and none of the next generation of kids gets told, I imagine that all the kids will know about Darth before having watched any of the episodes. its just too ingrained into pop culture. its a massive twist in massivly popular movies, how can you keep that quiet??

Heres why the revelation scene in empire works, even after youve seen 1 2 and 3:

the audience is shocked because they wont expect Vader to tell Luke. So caught up in the tension of the battle and Lukes predicament, Vader coming out with "the big one" will knock them flat. My prediction.

The only thing which Lucas doesnt explain adaquetly in Phantom is the mind trick thing. Think of Star Wars like a novel. some stuff gets explained right away, some stuff sits for later. Or think of it this way, imagine youre watching the movies for the first time. Would you want a long explanation of the mind trick in episode one, then the same thing again three movies later??

The Jedi, Amidala, the gungans, the invasion etc. were all suitably explained in Phantom.

 

Spike_Spiegel is right. "...the PT is just that, a prequel. It is written so that people who already saw the OT get a better backstory to the characters and the plot, ect."

That's it exactly. I can find no logic to suggest that the PT is intended to be watched first. The concepts of Star Wars-- the whole saga-- are introduced in ANH and ESB. They are taken for granted in the PT. Anyone who has ever studied screenwriting will tell you that the PT is obviously not structured like the first half of a story. It's structured just like a sequel. The fact that it happens to take place before the OT is incidental.

I still stand by Dubya's system. Not only is 4,5,1,2,3,6 good for all the reasons I've already said, but, as I realized, sometime after ESB but before ROTJ, Luke makes the same realizations (more or less) about his father that the audience makes. It's almost as if the PT is a flashback that Luke has to his father's previous life. When the flashback is over, Luke is a Jedi with a desire to bring Anakin back. Makes sense to me.

 

<<the audience is shocked because they wont expect Vader to tell Luke. So caught up in the tension of the battle and Lukes predicament, Vader coming out with "the big one" will knock them flat. My prediction.>>

No, the audience will be WAITING for Anakin to drop the hammer. They won't be SURPRISED that he did so.

The audience WILL, however, be confused as all hell as to why Obi-Wan lied to Luke.

 

<<It's almost as if the PT is a flashback that Luke has to his father's previous life. When the flashback is over, Luke is a Jedi with a desire to bring Anakin back. Makes sense to me.>>

Exactly!

4,5,1
2,3,6

Say it loud, say it proud! Defend the surprises of the OT, defend the impact of the PT, watch them in the order that amplifies both!

4,5,1,2,3,6!

Learn it, live it, love it...

 

Dubya,

The only "downside" to 451236 is Leia = Luke's sister. I think it's safe to say that the ROTJ "suprise" will be "ruined", but the ESB "No, there is another" mystery will still be intact. Either way, better than 456123 or 123456.

 

The movies are meant to be seen from 1-6. Lucas put episode numbers in the SW films for a reason.

 

Dubya:

Allow me to repost something I wrote on page 2 of this thread:

The Force in TPM

- But Master Yoda said I should be mindful of the future!
- But not at the expense of the moment. Be mindful of the Living Force, young padawan.

- Don´t worry, the Force will guide us.
- Oh, maxi-big tha Force. Well, that smells stinka-whiff!

- Be wary. I sense a disturbance in the Force.
- I feel it also, Master.

- I don´t have anything else, but: Credits will do fine.
- No, they won´t
- Credits will do fine.
- No, they won´t! What, you think you´re some kind of Jedi, waving your hand around like that? Mind tricks dont-a work on me, only money!

- You must have Jedi reflexes if you race pods.

- He has special powers.
- Yes.
- He can see things before they happen. That´s why he appears to have such quick reflexes. It´s a Jedi trait.
- He deserves better than a slave´s life.
- Had he been born in the Republic, we would have identified him early. The Force is unusually strong with him, that much is clear. Who was his father?

- I need the midi-chlorian count.
- The readings are off the chart. Over twenty thousand! Even Master Yoda doesn´t have a midi-chlorian count that high.
- No Jedi has.

- Remember: Concentrate on the moment. Feel, don´t think. Use your instincts.
- I will.
- May the Force be with you.

- I do not believe the Sith could have returned without us knowing.
- Ah, hard to see, the dark side is.

- I have encountered a vergence in the Force.
- A vergence, you say?
- Located around a person?
- It´s a boy. He has the highest concentration of midi-chlorians I´ve ever encountered in a lifeform. It´s possible he was conceived by the midi-chlorians.
- You refer to the prophecy of the one who will bring balance to the Force. You believe it´s this boy?

- Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering.

- Midi-chlorians are a microscopic lifeform that resides within all living cells.
- They live inside me?
- Inside your cells, yes. And we are symbionts with them.
- Symbionts?
- Lifeforms living together for mutual advantage. Without the midi-chlorians, life could not exist and we would have no knowledge of the Force. They continually speak to us, telling us the will of the Force. When you learn to quiet your mind, you will hear them speaking to you.


If one pays attention to what´s being said, it should be pretty clear by the end of the film what the Force is and how it works.

As for Obi-Wan´s "lie", Vader´s revelation, "There is another" and Yoda´s goofyness:

* Obi´s certain point of view will certainly confuse some people, but Yoda actually explains why in ROTJ: "not ready for the burden were you".
* For one who hasn´t seen Yoda since EpIII, it might seem as if he has gone a little mad after living 20 years alone in a swamp. Or it will seem as if he is testing Luke. Either way, it´s still a fun part of TESB for me. Why shouldn´t it be for the "chrono-watchers"?
* The audience will know that there is another, yes, but it seems like Obi-Wan doesn´t know that. It will be something that the audience will have waited for to be brought up.
* As will Vader´s true identity. The scene has impact even though you already know, because Luke´s reaction is very important. I still think it´s a powerful scene and to me, Vader was always Luke´s father. I can´t remember being taken by surprise in that scene.

BTW: Why wouldn´t it be shocking to see the Republic become an evil Empire if you don´t know it beforehand? Doesn´t make sense to me.

 

>>>There is no shock at seeing the Republic become the Empire if we don't even know what the Empire is.

I imagine that Episode III will make it clear that, for all the faults of the Republic, turning it into an Empire is a bad[/i] thing...

>>>They don't explain the Jedi mind trick.

Do they explain that in the OT?
#watches entire trilogy very quickly#
Nope.

It's shown in TPM, AOTC and ROTJ, associated with the Jedi in TPM, and named in ROTJ.

>>>Don't explain what a Jawa is, what a sandperson is, so their cameos have no impact.

Did they explain what a Jawa or sandperson is in ANH? No- because they didn't need to.

They aren't "cameos" in TPM any more than they were in ANH.

>>>Who is Jabba? Don't know.

And in ANH- who is Jabba? Don't know...

>>>They have yet to even explain the "light" and "dark" sides of the Force -- they've spent more time on midichlorians than they have on the Force itself.

Funny you should mention that, because the "dark side of the Force" isn't explained in ANY Star Wars film, and the "Light Side" isn't even mentioned (because it's a purely EU concept, invented by people who don't understand it... [/rant])

As for the "explanation" of things to happening in the prequels- they aren't supposed to for a good reason, and I think anyone who thinks a first-time viewer would be confused by the appearance of a sandperson or jawa is underestimating the natural intelligence of people.

The reason things aren't explained is because it's for you, the viewer, to figure out.

I was very intrigued by a lot of his movies because they were samurai movies, feudal Japan. The look of them was very exotic...and I found it very interesting that nothing was explained. You are thrown into this world, and obviously if you know about feudal Japan then it makes sense to you; but if you don't, it's like you're watching this very exotic, strange thing with strange customs and a strange look. And I think that influenced me a great deal in working in science fiction because I was able to get around the idea that you have to explain everything or understand what everything is... You just put yourself into this environment. It's like the world of an anthropologist. You walk into this strange society; you sit there and observe it.
-Lucas interview, Star Wars: The Magic of Myth (Mary Henderson) 27/09/96

There is also the fact that these films are very obviously made to be watched more than once...

>>>That's it exactly. I can find no logic to suggest that the PT is intended to be watched first.

How about the way Palpatine is portrayed a a nice man with good intentions, and Darth Sidious is portrayed as a completely seperate character? What would be the point of that if you were supposed to already know that he is evil and becomes Emperor?

 

I'll grant that things are not neccessarily explained in the OT. But they are introduced.

Take "Jedi mind trick" for example. Sure, it's just "used" without explanation in both TPM and ANH... but look at the character of the use from a storytelling point of view.

In ANH, when Ben uses the mind-trick on the stormtroppers, it's a fairly slow affair-- the audience is given time to absorb and understand what his going on. After seeing this, when someone uses the mind-trick, we know what it is, we know how it works, and when it doesn't work, we know what was supposed to happen.

Which brings me to TPM. Unless you count the Boss Nass sequence-- and you have to be eagle-eyed to catch it-- the first use of the mind trick is against Watto. The scene is clearly designed for an audience who, when seeing Qui-Gon wave his hand and make a statement, knows what's supposed to happen: that Watto will repeat what Qui-Gon said. Of course, that doesn't happen. The audience shares Qui-Gon's suprise at the unexpected outcome. The scene wouldn't work without that expectation. In other words, the scence was designed for an audience which has already seen ANH.

 

That's true... but by that point, the audience has already seen them using the Force to push battledroids away and demonstrating amazing physical skills.

I'm not sure if the Boss Nass bit would escape viewers attention- even if they missed Qui Gon's hand movement, the reaction from Obi Wan and Jar Jar brings it to the audience's attention that there's something unusual going on. And I wouldn't think that many people would fail to notice Boss Nass repeating Qui Gon's lines...

Anyway, I think the first-time audience would figure out that Neeson was expecting Watto to just accept what he was saying from the tone of his voice, and Watto talking about him "thinking he's some kind of Jedi waving his hand around" makes the connection between "waving hand" and "Jedi tricks"- then makes it clear that mind tricks don't work on him.

To be honest, I don't know how an audience could come away from that and not have figured out everything that you'd learn about mind tricks from watching the OT.

 

Scott3eyez, good response. I certainly don't mean to underestimate the audience's ability to understand what's going on in a film. Probably people who have seen the PT first will be able to figure out what's going on, etc.

But, to continue the debate, consider this alternate example: the lightsaber training sequence in AOTC is clearly meant to reference the jury-rigged training sequence that Luke undergoes in the Falcon. Now, if you're watching the saga in numerical sequence, you'll be able to figure out what's going on, no doubt. But you don't have to figure it out if you watch ANH first-- the pace of the scence and Obi-Wan's expositional dialogue explain everything or you. And, if you do watch AOTC first, you might be a little dismayed that the saga slows down so much in the middle to laboriously re-illustrate all that stuff you already figured out on your own.

I can think of alot of examples like this-- Tatooine springs to mind. In ANH, there's lots of expositional dialogue about Tatooine, its climate, life on it, etc, while all that information is taken for granted in the PTs.

The Star Wars saga was not written at once. Not only were the second 3 movies made first, but they were concieved and written first as well. The PT is made (obviously so, IMO) primarily for an audience already familar with Star Wars and the OT.

 

I think the biggest flaw in watching the films in order 1-6 is not questions about the force or sandpeople (sandpeople are not even named in TPM so when it's mentioned in AOTC that sandpeople have kidnapped Shmi I wonder whether some people will take that literally and think the guys are big blobs out of sand).

No, the biggest flaw is story structure. Every well-told story needs a goal, something that drives the story, identifies a conflict and a drama.
For example - LOTR introduces early on the concept that the world is in danger and our heroes must destroy the ring and Sauron to save everybody. Immediately you know what's at stake, the story has a goal it's driving towards. It's one of the most fundamental elements of storytelling. Other examples are The Matrix (chosen heroes must defeat evil machines or else), the OT (rebels must overcome evil Empire or else)and is found in everything from trivial entertainment to high art. No story amintains an interest just in itself, it always needs a goal. Love stories usually identify the goal of "Will the guy get the girl?" or alternatively "Will the lovers find happiness", it can be found in Schindler's List (will Schindler's Jews be saved?) or A Beautful Mind or anything else for that matter.

And this is where the PT has a problem if you watch it first. For everybody who has seen the OT already there is a goal - How did the Republic become the Empire? How did Anakin become Darth Vader? etc.) but for somebody who has never seen the OT there's no interest set up in the PT at all. We just spend an awful lot of time to meet characters but the story seems to be going nowhere. There are minor conflicts and dramatic devices but they are unlikely to hold a new viewer's interest (half of TPM is spent on the incredibly exciting and earth-shattering concept "Will our heroes find enough money to buy a spaceship part"? Those banal and trivial episodes hold OUR interest because WE know from watching the OT where the story is going but a new viewer doesn't know that

 

But, to continue the debate, consider this alternate example: the lightsaber training sequence in AOTC is clearly meant to reference the jury-rigged training sequence that Luke undergoes in the Falcon. Now, if you're watching the saga in numerical sequence, you'll be able to figure out what's going on, no doubt. But you don't have to figure it out if you watch ANH first-- the pace of the scence and Obi-Wan's expositional dialogue explain everything or you.

I disagree. Yoda is explaining to the kids that they must reach out with the Force in thier excercises, which would tell the viewer enough about what they're doing without having to see ANH.

I can think of alot of examples like this-- Tatooine springs to mind. In ANH, there's lots of expositional dialogue about Tatooine, its climate, life on it, etc, while all that information is taken for granted in the PTs.

You're wrong. There's a whole lot of expositional dialogue in TPM, more than ANH (Tatooine is not even mentioned by name in ANH)

Obi-Wan: Here, master. Tatooine. It's small, out of the way, poor. The Trade Federation has no power here.
Panaka: How can you be sure?
Qui-Gon: It's controlled by the Hutts.
Panaka: You can't take her Highness there! The Hutts are gangsters!

Jar Jar: The sun is doing murder to mesa skin!

Qui-Gon: This spaceport is not going to be pleasant.

Qui-Gon: Moisture farms, for the most part. Some indigenous tribes and scavengers. The few spaceports like this one are havens for those that don't wish to be found.

Anakin: Sandstorms are very, very dangerous.

Shmi: The Republic doesn't exist out here.

Padme: You come from a warm planet, Ani. A little too warm for my taste.

Also Tukafo, you're overgeneralizing about all stories containing goals. You mention A Beautiful Mind. What exactly is the goal in that story? What about Pulp Fiction, or the Godfather, or Taxi Driver,or Casablanca? Some stories just reveal a snapshot of a certain time period, or can be biographical, or can be a slice of life story.

 

All I can say is: If a first-time viewer has no interest in rewatching the films and learn more and more for each viewing, it´s his/her loss, not ours. It´s simply not his/her kind of film.
Why not just show them Star Wars I-VI and let them make up there own minds? I can promise you, if we fans had watched the PT first, we would be fanatically interested in watching Star Wars over and over, because it is our kind of film!