What caused Palpatine's change of appearance?

Actually, isn't the mere fact that Palpatine tells the senate his appearence is the result of the assassination attempt reason enough to suspect that in truth it is not?

 

I have a question, if it wasn't the lightning then why was his face doing all that weird stuff when it was being deflected at him? In one of the Star Wars magazines I recently read it said it would be somewhat stupid for it not to be an effect of lightning because of the fact that he uses the Palpatine face when he's Sidious throughout the other movies. The lightning may not be the exact thing that caused the changes but it had some effect and by no means could it possibly be his true 'self' because that's a hefty transformation to go through.

 

If "releasing all his hate and Dark Side power" is what does it, why do you think he hated Mace Windu more than Yoda? Do you think he was "toying" with Yoda and didn't really want to kill him? Because ALL the dialog says otherwise, and Yoda wasn't deformed.

Then, again, he did look strangely more LIKE Yoda after the deformation....

But seriously, the "lightning only" stance agrees with only SOME of the evidence in hand. The rules of canon state that anything official is official unless it conflicts with a higher level of canon (like, with the movies themselves being the highest form). If you believe it was a combination of the lightning and his true form bubbling up, the official sources don't conflict with one another. If you believe that it was the lightning alone, not only does the OS conflict with other sources, it also conflicts with the films in that lightning alone doesn't deform anyone else.

Justin, I agree that what the OS says CAN be interpreted as "lightning only" but it can also be interpreted from other viewpoints. Since the "lightning only" interpretation conflicts with all the other facts in evidence, it really should be thrown out. I am not saying that he wasn't injured by the lightning, because we see smoke rising from his body like we do in every other case of Sith Lightning; but in every other case of Sith Lightning, noone is killed or maimed by the lightning alone--something else comes into play.

If you are suggesting that "deflected" lightning is somehow different than a direct hit by lightning...That's an interesting idea, but it's unsupported. And if lightning somehow got stronger by being deflected, why wouldn't any semi-intelligent Sith go for the "bank shot" whenever possible?

 

It's funny, but to me I thought it wasn't even left to interpretation regarding a few things. I thought Sidious allowed Mace to "trap" him in order to draw out Anakin's sympathy and the lightning was meant to cause Anakin to believe Sidious was being hurt when,in fact, it served a double purpose of also letting himself finally let his true form show and that form had nothing to do with lightning.

 

I am in full agreement with the Sape.


-JR

 

And this is what was said in Insider #82 with an interview with Ian McDiarmid.

Question: Was there always the intention to show Sidious as he appears at the end of the film?

McDiarmid: I don't think George had made up his mind when we started shooting whether to continually show Lord Sidious as he really is after his initial transformation or if Sidious would go back and forth with his appearance. I (believe) when George finally saw Dave's wonderful makeup he decided that constantly changing Palpatine's appearance would be a step backward. So the moment in the film where I make the transformation is the way I appear until the end. It's an interesting sort of study in schizophrenia really -- the nice guy that you saw was revealed later int he monstrous mask as the self, the Sith self.



"The Emperor that you see in the last film looks like he does because he's very old and very evil -- It is what he always looked liked."
--Ian McDiarmid



And based on what Pablo says in Insider #83, he wasn't 100% positive on what he was saying, which he is telling us that this is what he thinks it is. He doesn't say Lucas said this, or that, he says there are hints. The point is based on what I have seen/read, I am now at it is at both. Until more in revealed, I will stick to this point of view. If it becomes clear one way or the other, I will go there because I do believe in the facts, but the facts are too vague at this moment.

 

You know I agree with you on the "trap" business, but I'm not totally convinced that Sidious expected Mace to be able to reflect the lightning. It is possible that he expected this effect, knowing Mace's knowledge of Vaapad and what it allowed him to do, but it's a bit inconclusive. However, that detail isn't as important as the fact that Sidious intentionally continues the lightning attack after it's clear that Mace is reflecting it, so any effects of the attack can only be said to be intentional on his part.

 

Im with you on that Sapes for sure. It gave him the perfected excuse for his inevitable change.

 

And once again Lowe, here is what Pablo Hidalgo had to say in response to that in Star Wars Insider #83:

"As described in the novel and the screenplay, it's the intensity of reflected lightning and the channeling of such Dark Side power that are the catalysts for Palpatine's transformation...."

Nothing uncertain there. He says it as a statement of fact. And he goes on to adress what Ian said:

"Now, it should be noted that George Lucas and Ian McDiarmid, and other crewmembers decribed the makeup...as Palpatine's "true face" and the Chancellor's features as the mask. I'd caution against taking that too literally. I can probably point to interviews in the same vein with Christain Bale describing Bruce Wayne as the mask and Batman as the true face, but no one would take that literally"

Again, he states it as fact, and I also doubt he'd update the OS with this:

"With Anakin Skywalker's help, Sidious was able to defeat Mace, though he was severely scarred by the reflected power of his dark side lightning. To conceal his disfigured visage, Sidious returned to his simple Sith robes.

"Skywalker witnessed a stunning sight: the Chancellor, cornered, with Windu looming over him with his lightsaber blade extended. Palpatine unleashed a torrent of Sith lightning at the Jedi Master, but Windu was able to deflect it back at the Chancellor. The evil energies twisted Palpatine's face as they flowed through him, scarring and disfiguring his once handsome features. His eyes burned yellow, his voice grew ragged and deep, and he became a well of dark side energies."

Without counsulting Lucas.

 

You also agreed with Darth_Vortex and Emos Edud that Palpatine was a clone, so I'm not suprised to see you champoning the "mask" theory in the face of the facts from the OS.

I'll take what the OS says over any mod or even D_Lowe any day. It's pretty pointless and arrogant to argue with the Official Site.

 

DarthSapient
It's funny, but to me I thought it wasn't even left to interpretation regarding a few things. I thought Sidious allowed Mace to "trap" him in order to draw out Anakin's sympathy

i agree with that 1st part. i just think when sidious says, "nooo, nooo, . . ." thats when he starts to change, starting with his voice. hes bringing out all his hate and darkside energy and its deforming him from the inside out. i think hes calling on more than lightning, its all his sith power that hes been containing and hiding away (almost masking, maybe).

 

The disfigurement was from the deflected lightning

 

Lightning Voters (!):

Can you explain the growl from Palpatine before the mace fight then? And explain why his eyes go sith at the same point at the lighning attack? Why he shows no sign of pain? Why his lightning doesnt deform other characters? Why we dont see his X-Ray?

 

I see it more as "his true form bubbling to the surface" but who knows really. Either way it was wicked cool.

 

It was always my belief that the transformation came about as a result of the exhertion of his power during that scene. Given that the Dark Side corrupts one's being, it also physically corrupts as well. The sheer amount of dark power he was calling forth, as well the effort to sustain it, is what probably brought such a change about him

 

Maybe if you would read what I just posted you wouldn't have to ask....

 

Thanks for the usual polite response Peeler. but I dont believe my questions have been aswered.

What has the OS Data Bank got to do with anything?

Did GL write it? No.

Besides, the truths we cling to depend greatly upon our own point of view.

 

Why we don't see an x-ray? Um, are we supposed to see his skeleton if he's being electrocuted?

 

That's right, there's nothing uncertain about it anymore. It's a combination and this quote proves it. Do you know what a catalyst is? A catalyst does not CAUSE a reaction, but rather it modifies and increases the rate of a reaction.

Look up the word "catalyst" and then close the case.

 

Yep, the catalyst of Palpatine's transformation. The cause of his transformation. What makes him change apperance.

There is nothing in there about Force Masks or his true apperance, is there?

And again, Master_Shaitan, Pablo does talk to Lucas. He does work for the man. I doubt he'd write this stuff up as fact without Lucas' approval, if for no other reason than he'd have to correct himself at a later date.

I'm only here to bring you the facts of the matter, to educate you on what LFL has officially said about this matter. You are not arguing with me, you are arguning with the Official Site and the Insider.

What do you think your chances are?

 

Justin, if something is a catalyst it is not the root cause of the reaction. From dictionary.com:

cat·a·lyst
1. Chemistry. A substance, usually used in small amounts relative to the reactants, that modifies and increases the rate of a reaction without being consumed in the process.
# One that precipitates a process or event, especially without being involved in or changed by the consequences: ?A free press... has remained... a vital catalyst to an informed and responsible electorate? (Robert O'Neal).

Note that in the chemistry sense, the catalyst is NOT a reactant, it is an accelerator. In certain cases, a catalyst is required to initiate the reaction even though it is not part of the reaction itself. In the generic (aka non-chemistry) sense, a catalyst is referred to as something that causes something ELSE to happen. The lightning was the trigger (so to speak), not the bullet itself. Think of it like a starter engine in a car. Does the starter make the car go? No. But without the catalyst, the reaction wouldn't start. The lightning itself did not cause Palpatine's face to deform, but it ignited the process that had been building up from years of Darkside use.

 

Pablo said it was the lightning. Case closed. You may move on.

 

I know what cataylst means, and you are trying to take that way to literally as well.

There si nothing in Pablo's response that supports the idea of a Force Mask. And your theory that Palpatine should have looked that way isn't supported either, because we know Lucas changed his mind on his apperance.

Originally he was going to decay gradually over three films, but then Lucas went for a sudden change in ROTS. How could he have always looked that way if he was going to change over three films? How does that fit with your theory?

It doesn't.

There was no mask. Using the Dark Side in the way Palpatine did caused the transformation, just as Pablo said.

 

It fits perfectly with my theory and disproves yours. If he was going to change over three films, how did the lightning do it?

As it was changed by Lucas, instead of seeing the change happen gradually, Sidious manages to hold back the physical effects of the darkside. Once he hits himself with lightning, however, he's no longer able to hold it back and the years of deterioration finally take their toll.

How is using the term from the quote you provided taking it too literally? Why are we supposed to use only the narrow interpretation that you've concocted and not take the quote at face value? Pablo said the lightning was the catalyst, not the cause. Note also in Pablo's quote that he mentions that this is spelled out in the novel, and the novel very clearly tells us how the lightning caused him to show the effects of years of darkside abuse.

Stop clinging so desperately to your personal interpretation of one man's point of view, especially when that one person isn't the character himself or the writer of said character. Pablo has a point of view, that point of view agrees with every other interpretation if you open your eyes to other points of view. If you continue to keep blinders on this one point, you miss SO much else.

 

The novel says nothing of years of Dark Side abuse. Please state the part of the novel that says so, because you know there isn't once.

Look at the second definition of "catalyst": One that precipitates a process or event.

The event in this case is the transformation. Lightning and use of the Dark Side precipitated the event of Palpatine's transformation.

There is nothing there about him masking his apperance.

And if Lucas hand't changed his mind on having Palpatine change gradyally, then your theory would have a leg to hop around on. But he did.

Finally, my "point of view" isn't based off on one sentance from Pablo, which you keep trying to twist to mean the exact opposite of what it says, BTW. It's based off of what the OS says and Pablo's entire answer.

From the OS yet again:

"With Anakin Skywalker's help, Sidious was able to defeat Mace, though he was severely scarred by the reflected power of his dark side lightning. To conceal his disfigured visage, Sidious returned to his simple Sith robes.

"Skywalker witnessed a stunning sight: the Chancellor, cornered, with Windu looming over him with his lightsaber blade extended. Palpatine unleashed a torrent of Sith lightning at the Jedi Master, but Windu was able to deflect it back at the Chancellor. The evil energies twisted Palpatine's face as they flowed through him, scarring and disfiguring his once handsome features. His eyes burned yellow, his voice grew ragged and deep, and he became a well of dark side energies."

If only I could use a larger font.

Again, you can't win here. Stop trying.