What caused Palpatine's change of appearance?

Well its not that simple.
One thing that everybody seems to be forgetting is that there is no such thing as Sith magic,Alchemy,ect.It has never been spoken of in any movie and if its in a book,well then I dont think it really matters ,sice its never mentioned in the movies.It was the lightning we have proof.George Lucas even said so in the Making book.SO .

 

So you mean to tell me that all the backstories on characters, put forth in the EU, are just...nonsense? They mean nothing in the "realm of the movies"? I'll admit I don't really care for the post-Return of the Jedi EU, but the novels and such during the Clone Wars tie in very well with the movies, and some aspects were even used in the movies, and would go without notice, had one not read the certain EU material.

That being said, in Episode I, we are told that the Sith have been extinct (or something of the like) for a millenia. There is some record of the Sith prior to those that went extinct. Infact, the very roots of the Sith go back to Sith magicians, and their "magic". The magic later known as the Force.

Also, is the Star Wars Insider magazine, the offical Star Wars magazing, not a valid source? What do you need, hm? Furthermore, the sourcebooks that speak of Sith Magic, and the like, are indeed canon. Meaning, they're fact.

To disregard such a concrete source is pure ignorance.

~Vassago

 

uhhh yeah.
DOnt even try to give me that ignorance crap.
I have that issue and i have read it several times.
McDiarmid also likes to things open to the readers own thoughts.
And whats a better source of info McD. or GL?
Sounds like your the ignorant one to me.
I mean come on magic later known as the FREAKING FORCE.
people who are ignorant to the knowledge of the force, consider it to be Magic.Though we clearly know that its not magic.
hmmmm let me see when did you ever read of Sith Magic in a clone war novel?Never right.
Not everything in the books are according to the movies as you should well know.They have to spice things up dont they?!
Magic is not real in the Star Wars movies.So it has nothing to do with Sidious.Did you even see the Movie?!
clearly His face transforms every Single Time his Lightning hits his face.

 

Yeah, pretty much. Unless you think the indestructable glove of Darth Vader was sucked through a wormhole when the DSII blew up and was found by Palpatine's illigetimate son who has an eye in the back of his head.

 

Well said my friend Vassago... also remember what happens after the whole situation.

Sidious does not stumble around from the lightning or his encounter with Mace. Sidious gets up non-challantly as if nothing has happened. At that moment you can see that the lightning had no physical effects on him (more specifically injuring him). You have to realize that Sidious was channeling a vast amount of dark energy, and flowing with it! And that only served to strengthen him even more.

In RotJ Luke writhes on the floor like a little girl, and stumbles over to Anakin. Even Yoda feels the effects of it... the lightning obviously snapping him unconcious for a brief second, and then stumbles to get up. Granted he gets up and unleashes some of his own power, it takes a moment for Yoda to shrug of the attack and regain focus. Sidious, just rolls and gets up. All after being expose to the most lightning we have ever seen anyone expose to... even more than Luke.

[/Sidious old man laugh]

 

I'm sorry, Justin, but didn't I mention that the Clone Wars EU is what I was reffering to, and things prior to the Original Trilogy in the timeline? I don't exactly care for the things mentioned by yourself, nor do I care for the "New Jedi Order", or anything of the like. If you take notice, as I said, many things in the EU that took place in the prequel era timeline tie in painfully well with the films themselves.

Darklord07 posted on 8/30/05 4:35pm

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[b][color=darkblue]uhhh yeah.
DOnt even try to give me that ignorance crap.
I have that issue and i have read it several times.
McDiarmid also likes to things open to the readers own thoughts.
And whats a better source of info McD. or GL?
Sounds like your the ignorant one to me.
I mean come on magic later known as the FREAKING FORCE.
people who are ignorant to the knowledge of the force, consider it to be Magic.Though we clearly know that its not magic.
hmmmm let me see when did you ever read of Sith Magic in a clone war novel?Never right.
Not everything in the books are according to the movies as you should well know.They have to spice things up dont they?!
Magic is not real in the Star Wars movies.So it has nothing to do with Sidious.Did you even see the Movie?!
clearly His face transforms every Single Time his Lightning hits his face.[/color][/b] [hr][/blockquote]

I think you need to calm down. :) No one is yelling at you, so you need to refrain from yelling at me, no? Yes. :)

First, I'll pull the ignorance "crap" on you because you don't know the difference between "your" and "you're".

Second, Ian may have played Palpatine/Sidious but did he think of the character? Or did he write the backstory? No, he did not.

Third, George Lucas did think of the entire saga, character, and backstory to each person, and what he says is gold, right? No. It isn't. That's the easy way out. If what he said was gold, then there would be no argument when I tell people "Vader is weak, and a sad devotion to nothing but himself." Why would there be no argument? Because George Lucas said it. But do people accept this? Nope.

Fourth, people being ignorant to the power of the Force isn't unheard of, espeically on an outter rim planet, such as Korriban. Before races were educated in what the Force is, they thought of it as magic. Also, since you're so hellbent on using the movie as your handbook, we can clearly hear Admiral Motti say, in [i]A New Hope[/i], "Don't try to frighten us with your [b][i]sorcerer's[/b][/i] ways, Lord Vader." Also, people have reffered to Old Ben as a "wizard", a "sorcerer" and things of the like. After the fall of the Republic, the Force and the Jedi were something of a myth. This illustrates the fact that magic [i]does[/i] exist in the Star Wars universe, in the form of the Force, to those whom may not know what it is. :)

Fifth, his face clearly transforms? Yes, I saw that. But it was simply his former face, his "mask", melting away due to the lightning being forced back into his face.

Not at all unbelieveable. :)

 

Deflected lightning.

 

You see, you just contradicted yourself.

1)yes he said sorcerors way because agian there are no Jedi and no real knowledge of the force so hes ignorant to it true name.

So you see my point about those ignorant to the Force? How they call it "magic", and sorcery. Thus, we have...ancient Sith Magic.

Don't bother posting more later. You proved my point for me.

~Vassago

 

Although I must admit I don't know exactly what you're referring to, I don't think that it is EU because it occurs during the timeline of the films and I don't remember any of that happening in any of the Lucas-Approved works like Shadows of the Empire. I believe what you are referring to is not EU--which remains in official continuity, but Star Wars Infinities which is not in continuity.

The quote cited however is from the official Star Wars Insider magazine which is just as official as the OS. That is, unless it's in direct conflict with the films--which it very clearly is not--it is official.

It is sad that some people have boxed themselves into such a narrow point of view that they somehow think that it's either the lightning (as implied by Pablo) or that it's Sidious' true face (as stated by Ian), rather than understand that it's both as made very clear in SW Insider! Is it that difficult a concept?? Did somebody miss the episode of Sesame Street where they talked about the concept of "AND"...or maybe Schoolhouse Rock's "Conjunction Junction"--because this is the function. Lightning AND true face. ...Not so tough, is it?

 

While I'm here, I wanted to point something out. Note that I do not have the latest copy of SW Insider, and had not read the article or heard the quotes when I posted the following:

Compare that with:

I don't like to brag, but that looks like pwn4g3 if I ever saw it.

 

Sounds good to me... But a lot of people on these boards have trouble with more than one thing being true. They want it either one way or the other (see the duel threads!)

All the lightning did was release what was already in Palpatine's soul. He might have a 'changed' appearance, but it is his 'true' appearance, a reflection of his Dark Side corruption. Kindly old Chancellor was the mask, the ruse, and the deception. As I recall Luke took some heavy lightning for a few minutes and came out without so much as a burnmark. What happened to Palpatine was special - the lightning acted as a catalyst. Yeah, the lightning burned his Chancellor-face away. And yeah, his true appearance came to the surface.

 

Magic: The art that purports to control or forecast natural events, effects, or forces by invoking the supernatural

So, when Jedi or Sith are controlling or forecasting natural events, effects, or *ahem* forces...are they purporting to invoke natural or supernatural?

su·per·nat·u·ral Audio pronunciation of "supernatural" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (spr-nchr-l)
adj.

1. Of or relating to existence outside the natural world.
2. Attributed to a power that seems to violate or go beyond natural forces.
3. Of or relating to a deity.
4. Of or relating to the immediate exercise of divine power; miraculous.
5. Of or relating to the miraculous.

Considering that The Force allows the Jedi and Sith do seem to control the forces of nature (like gravity, for example), AND the fact that the Jedi and Sith have been referred to as "religious" on multiple occassions, it looks very fair to call The Force of or relating to the Supernatural.

Simply because the Jedi and Sith think of their abilities as "natural" does not dismiss this descriptor. An Exorcist will tell you that he invokes a very natural power (the same power that surrounds, binds, and penetrates all living things) to accomplish his work, yet we generally think of Exorcists to be very much in the realm of the supernatural, don't we? Although it would probably be odd for a Jedi or Sith to refer to their own abilities as "magic", but the term is quite appropriate for use by anyone who does not have any of these "natural" abilities.

 

Correction, the phrase "Sidious' true face bubbling to the surface" comes directly from the OS with this poll question. If the OS databank was only ever intended to be interpreted one way, why do they ask this question on the OS in the first place?!?

You don't suppose it could be related to your point of view, could it?? After all, it's a poll question, not a trivia question.

 

That lightning did the trick. I mean, it can't be GOOD for your skin, can it?

 

It was a nice exfolliant for Anakin. I hear midichlorian-derm abrasion is all the rage these days. It gave a yoda a nice smooth, almost rubber-like complexion.

 

Well let me put it this way.
I simply Refuse to belive that Sidious used Magic,Alchemy.
Has anyone ever see the force change a persons face.No.
But It was not Magic that Made his face warp it was the LIGHTNING.

 

no matter what you wish to call it, magic, magick or the force, it's all the same thing basically. But since it's in SW, they call it the force. So in this case it not magic. Palp was changed because of his force and the lightsaber, not magic.

 

I so agree.


sorry for the double post

 

So that whole "lightning out of his fingers" thing was a normal act of nature? Apparently noone would call that magic. Funny, I believe that in ANH it gets called Sorcery and Wizardry. But they're just stupid non-jedi that use such silly words... Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I believe that Ian McDirmid is not a Jedi either...maybe that's why he calls it "magic". Darth Sidious didn't call it "magic", Ian did. Darth Sidious didn't call it lightning either, do you refuse to believe that Sidious used lightning as well?

Have we seen the Force change a person's face? Um..Yes we have! We have several examples, in fact. Didn't you notice what it did to Darth Maul's eyes and teeth? Or to Anakin's eyes?

Look at the on-screen evidence:
Darth Maul, not struck by lightning but uses the darkside: Face changed.
Anakin, not struck by lightning but uses the darkside: Face changed.
Anakin, struck by lightning, not using the darkside: No face change
Yoda, struck by lightning, not using the darkside: No face change
Luke, struck by lightning, not using the darkside: No face change
Darth Sidious, struck by lightning AND uses the darkside: Face changed.

What more G-canon proof do you need that lightning alone isn't enough to change Sidious face???

 

I take that back. A simpler better supported answer would be that the reason Palpatine's face changes is simply because of greater intensity. When zapping Luke Palpatine did it in short burts, trying to make Luke suffer, in ROTS when he zaps Yoda I think it was more of a demonstration since he gives him a quick zap and then starts to cackle arrogantly. While trying to zap Mace, Mace caught it with his saber and started to shove it toward Palpatine's face. Yeah Palpatine was zapping himself in the face, but at the same time the lightning was the only defence he had, he had to intensify the lightning in order to try and push Mace back. In doing so he summoned such a high level of dark side energies into his body that voice, eyes, and even personality changed. While his disfigured features are simply the cause of such a high intensity.

 

Uhh yeah eye color and the color of teeth.
I really wouldnt call that a Major apperance change.Surly Sidious didnt use the force to make a "mask".In a way then yeah I quess he was wearing a "Mask".But not really in masking his face.If that makes sice.lol

 

this is gettin good, lol. heatin' up a bit.

 

I find it difficult to believe or prove that the intensity of lightning that was sent at Luke was in any way less than Mace. In both situations, he says "You will die!" and appears to intensify the lightning. It would be easier to prove that the lightning that was reflected back at Sidious was less intense than what Luke was getting because some of the energy WAS getting absorbed by Mace, and there's a natural tendency for self-preservation so one would tend to presume that Sidious wasn't giving himself a lethal dose of lightning if he could avoid it. The lightning striking Luke was a direct hit, completely unblocked or absorbed by other objects (until Vader stepped in, of course), and was very clearly intended to kill.

As far as the difference between what happens to Sidious and what happens to Maul and Vader, there are again 2 key differences: 1. Neither Maul or Vader have lightning acting as a catalyst for the transformation. 2. Neither Maul nor Vader have been concealing their identities for the past few decades, nor were they the embodiment of pure evil that was Darth Sidious. (Well, Maul was keeping a low profile, but he did have yellow eyes AND teeth for it)

I'm pretty sure I've read or heard Lucas' quotes where he talks about how Maul's yellow eyes are meant as a foreshadowing and to show us how the Darkside destroys you physically as well as spiritually. It's a hint/explanation of what happens to Palpatine, and it's a "type" of what happens to Anakin.

 

and there's a natural tendency for self-preservation so one would tend to presume that Sidious wasn't giving himself a lethal dose of lightning if he could avoid it. The lightning striking Luke was a direct hit, completely unblocked or absorbed by other objects (until Vader stepped in, of course), and was very clearly intended to kill.

As far as the difference between what happens to Sidious and what happens to Maul and Vader, there are again 2 key differences: 1. Neither Maul or Vader have lightning acting as a catalyst for the transformation. 2. Neither Maul nor Vader have been concealing their identities for the past few decades, nor were they the embodiment of pure evil that was Darth Sidious. (Well, Maul was keeping a low profile, but he did have yellow eyes AND teeth for it)

I'm pretty sure I've read or heard Lucas' quotes where he talks about how Maul's yellow eyes are meant as a foreshadowing and to show us how the Darkside destroys you physically as well as spiritually. It's a hint/explanation of what happens to Palpatine, and it's a "type" of what happens to Anakin.



From Palp's perspective without a strong blast of lightning Mace's saber would have been pushed into his face. Also I keep hearing that the original intent was to have Sidious slowly became more and more grotesque as time went on but that ended up changing in preproduction of ROTS. Maul WOULD have hinted at this transformation but the mode of transformation ended up changing.