ST What do you think of TLJ 7 years later?

And in George’s Lucas’s opinion, kids are totally ready for people being set on fire, children being murderer/maimed, and for complex faux-Caesarian politics… but want their fluffy teddy bears too.

Which isn’t necessarily wrong, but does depend on more nuanced execution than Lucas was inclined to.

 

Well, there is such a thing as writing for demographics, including age groups, and that's what I was referring to. Lucas made Star Wars as an all ages film, that then became a popular toy franchise, and the narrative around the films started to change to them being "Kids movies". This also started to happen around the time that George became a dad, and started being less tonally consistent with the films. He made the classic mistake of pandering with sillier, less mature tone shifts that weren't present in the first 2 films. This was one of the biggest issues people had with the PT, personified in the Jar Jar character backlash.

There is, I just object to calling such movies "Kids movies". It implies that kids are the intended audience, and that's why there is a distinction between "All Ages" and "Kids movies/shows".

 

I get your point, but I would also classify those examples as all ages, because of the more mature aspects of some of the story. The Disney channel is a good example of a lot of "made for kids" programming. It's not trying to appeal to anything outside of a certain age demographic. Something like The Secret Of Nym was designed with the idea that it was a theatrical release that needed to appeal to the parents as well as the kids. Hence the creation of the "All Ages" label for films. Early Disney films also understood this. Walt deliberately designed his films to appeal to everybody, which is why they were so successful. George started this way as well, but started to lose his way starting with certain things in ROTJ, and got worse with the PT. He forgot how to balance the tone, and not dumb down for/pander to kids.

 

Yeah, it's just corny humor, and definitely went on too long. I also hated the "Reach out" joke, for the same reason, though mileage may vary on all of this depending on someone's humor preferences.

 

TLJ had a couple of funny parts. “I’m from Jakku.” “Ok that’s pretty much nowhere” comes to mind.

The Poe/Hux yo-mama gag was ridiculous though, and I say that as someone who likes fart jokes so I’m good with immature humor.

 

I think the thing that helped make ATLA qualify as an “all ages story with a kid focus” was its balance and nuance in integrating the more mature and more childish elements.

It takes serious skill and subtlety to be able to, say, have a beach episode focused on the deuteragonist and the quirky mini-boss squad that is overflowing with teen-and-up content…but knows when to throw in an insane beach volleyball game, and when to play the characters’ more amorous interaction like a Looney Tune, and how to maintain an attitude for the characters that doesn’t favor any one demographic over another.

Most creators end up either picking one demographic another… or yes, they start pandering.

The ST’s pandering is a bit schizophrenic and weird, particualrly in TLJ, where I’m 95% certain Johnson was trying to pander to the Twilight demographic with Kylo… and maybe proved that demographic has jussssst enough standards to not artificially inflate a worse love story.

 

This is how I am, but I didn't like Thor: Ragnarok. It was way too much for me. I thought the other Thor movies balanced the humor well. TR just dove head first into absurdity. But, like I said, mileage may vary.

 

I think it’s a thing of nuance and context - a “yo mama” joke or insult can work in almost any story, provided it fits the context within the story.

I think what throws the Hux joke off for some people is the context for both Hux and Poe - it’s a very serious situation they’re in, and neither one is a joker nor a hapless prank victim in the previous film, and arguably neither of them should be such in the situation.

I mean, *if* you paid attention in TFA, than you’d know both Poe and Hux are comparatively no-nonsense in action scenes, but even if you didn’t, the film *is* going to try and extract drama out of the scene only a few seconds later, so the way both of them waste time can undermine the moment. If, say, Poe tried to make the joke but Hux just calmly opened fire immediately, it wouldn’t be as big of an issue. Or, if they were going to be joking the entire time it wouldn’t stand out like a sore thumb and would be part of the entire experience (though even more incongruous with TFA.)

…I’ll confess I’m more than a little annoyed at the way TLJ opens with the First Order, since it almost immediately defangs them as a threat while showing it should be more effective. Captain Cannady is, for all intents and purposes, acting exactly like TFA!Hux would, but only so that Johnson can draw a contrast between the military competence of such a character and the buffoonery he’ll have the FO acting as for the rest of the film.

 

It’s why I can’t disparage the dialogue of TLJ even when others can.

…Now, contextually to the actions of the story, it’s still stupid, but if you role with what Johnson thinks, it can work.

 

Cheesy koans aren’t inherently bad, especially if delivered with conviction and in the appropriate context. In operatic melodramas, their frequently very useful… but their a bit delicate, as they need the film to prove them.

That particular line, for instance, would have fit wonderfully if said by Yoda in a story that actually heavily featured teaching, training, and a more substantial relationship between Rey and Luke.

Remove a koan from appropriate context, or worse, put it in contradicting context, and *then* it becomes poor dialogue.

Rose “saving what we love” line, for instance, would fit well if it were used to calm down a Jedi tempted to give into the darkside for revenge while his friends are still in danger… but when Rose’s actions are actually dooming pretty much everyone, while Finn’s actions seem to already personify the very moral she’s supposed to be teaching him by stopping him… then it becomes crappy.