ST What does the ST add to the Saga? What is its story purpose?

Harping on the evils of capitalism is also deeply ironic in a movie produced by Disney. All those wonderful reports of their stellar treatment of employees and all.

 

It's a never-ending circle:

 

Agreed... it wasn't even close to being intrinsic to the narrative of the ST.

 

It was brought up once in TFA ( by Lor San Tekka ), once in TROS ( by Anakin ), and more than once in TLJ ( by Luke ). It came up at least four times. Which is only one less than the number of times it came up in the PT.

 

She loves him so she heals him

he loves her so he comes to her at the most desperate hour so that she doesn't fall to the Dark Side like he did

that leads to her defeating the ultimate evil (sabers may be Luke and Leia's respectively but they were also used by the dyad so symbolically it's them together too)

His love brings her back (he gives her his life force)

and so the new Jedi rises


or if you want more lining up:


Skywalker (who returned) is many characters:








So love brought back the Jedi.

 

The idea that Rey and Kylo were in love is just a terrible one and so poorly developed across the ST that it's insulting especially to anyone that has ever been in an abusive relationship. The whole Rey Skywalker thing just awful IMO but if you liked it glad you did.

 

well, they were in love so that's that. And the question wasn't whether you like it but whether love saved the world in ST and it did. It's in the movie. Why everything has to turn into "I don't like it therefore it doesn't exist?"

 

I'm sorry, that is NOT ONSCREEN. Please don't post that ridiculous hand thing from TLJ and tell me that's a romance. It's not. Han and Leia is a romance, Padme and Anakin is a romance. And gee, guess what? Both of them ended in misery and death and their offspring all ended up in misery and death. Bravo, Lucasfilm!

The idea that Rey and Kylo have a grand romance is as ridiculous as Kylo being just a poor, misunderstood boy who never did anything wrong.

If they wanted to sell me this awful idea of a "romance," then they should have been like Avis Car Rental and tried harder.

 

Han and Leia and Anakin and Padme had romance as in they were couples for certain amount of time. Rey and Kylo had romantic love. They never had a chance to be a proper couple but they loved each other romantically nonetheless and that saved the galaxy, brought the balance, brought the Jedi back. It's all in the movie. Not liking it won't suddenly erase it from the trilogy.

 

Rey is apparently also in love with a giant worm since healing someone means love.

 

Nobody has to accept it but what's the point in seeing each film if you dont.

The strange part with Luke's character is hes the one thing we have info on and is remarkably close to what's in some of the art books and things that have been said about the character.

I get the disappointment or let down in not getting to see Lucas's story come to fruition.

Imo if you accept it for what it is you get more enjoyment and appreciation out of what they did try to do. Because theres some great production in play for sure and some real great moments.

I really think The Last Jedi is a condensed version of Lucas's story treatment, which explains Mark's initial confusion with the character.

Bottom line is there are people that so whole heartedly wanted the real tale, Lucas's story, and knowing that what came out was not it negates what did come out. And imo it sort of does.

With that said if I had hated Last Jedi some I would not see Rise of Skywalker. Turns out I was locked in on The Last Jedi and then imo I thought TROS was a HUGE step down in every conceivable way. Rushed and nonsensical, with all the potential thrown out the window. However even with a dumb story I can still get behind it if its put together with a fine level of craft like The Last Jedi and even to a lesser extent like TFA.

 

I don't see any love between Rey and Kylo by my definition of love. Whatever that was was shallow as hell and toxic. Combine toxicity with that kind of hollow "bond," all you have is self destructive lust.

 

I think that just underlines the vacuousness nature of the relationship, as seen on screen and how it's written. Two people who don't even spend any real time together, and nothing shared, other than an abusive kind of relationship. I'm not knocking you liking it, but it's really badly written (IMHO), and makes Anakin and Padme seem like Anthony and Cleopatra in comparison.

 

Now that you mentioned it, she didn't heal Finn in TFA and Poe's arm in TROS. I guess she doesn't like them much.

@Darth PJ They spend time through their Force Bond which allows them much more intimate knowledge of each other than what regular people have. That's how she was able to see Ben.
As for abuse, that mantra has been chanted since the ship became popular (dec 2015) and it had zero impact on ST storytelling. They told the story they wanted to tell trusting that most people could separate between fantasy and real life and they did. So attempts to guilt trip by chanting various accusations proved a flop strategy. Something to take into consideration going forward. Learn from failure, change the approach.

 

I think TLJ is easily the best sequel... no arguments there... and no issue with Johnson's technical application. The issue for me is the story and characterisation in TLJ. However, I don't personally hold Johnson responsible for that, as it was Abrams who created the foundations of the characters and situations... Johnson just kind of ran with it and, IMHO, thought that the best way of progressing it was to deconstruct Luke and turn Kylo into something of a romantic lead. I really don't like Jonson's decisions (and I personally don't think they work), but I respect him for trying it... and he certainly makes a better fist of it than Abrams (IMHO).

 

I think people project their "love story" into the film. Relationship this relationship that; the reality is what's on screen and I thought the way the force was used as the intermediary between the light and dark lead to a very thoughtful dynamic on screen.

 

Great Post

 

Well they were in love and that's that is not a good defense of how something is portrayed that just ruins stories. The "love" between Kylo and Rey is so non existent it appears like a Deux Ex Machina and is there to appease fans. It's an example of some of the worst writing and one of the worst writing tropes as it really comes out of nowhere it's just there because the writers decided it was.

 

Expected, given that his grandfather and his father were romantic leads in previous trilogies, starting with the second movie. So that Anakin and Padme's grandson/Han and Leai's son was going to have his own love story was logical.

@Jedi_Fenrir767



you'll find fans who agree (especially around here) and you'll fans who don't (especially around reddit/SW/Leaks). So it's pointless to debate this from personal POV for we'll get circular discussion. What matters is that it's in the movies and it's canon and yes the target audience responded positively. Notce that I say target audience.

 

There was nothing logical to me about TFA being set up for a romance that involved Kylo, lol. That contradicted every romantic trope I'm aware of. And no, enemies to lovers stories don't normally, or ever besides reylo, begin with the equivalent of violent abduction, torture, intimate mind assault, or patricide.

What evidence do you even have about this? I'm hugely skeptical. Some of the target audience in my theater laughed audibly during the kiss. I've seen a lot of reference in mainstream articles to that kiss being out of left field and awkward. I don't know any casual fans that responded positively to it, or had much of any reaction at all frankly. It was just whatever.

 

Beauty and the Beast?
Beast imprisons Belle's father (actually wanted to kill him originally) for stealing a rose from his garden as a gift to Belle.
The Beast agrees to let Belle take her father's place a shis prisoner.
Hades and Persephone?
As the girl (Persephone) played with her companions, they caused the ground to split underneath her. Persephone slipped beneath the Earth and Hades stole her to the Underworld where he made her his wife.

 

The Beast is Prince Charming by comparison. If Beast had murdered Bell's father instead of freeing him and strapped Belle to a table and intimately and violently assaulted her instead of giving her a beautiful room and servants before freeing her, then I'd say it's a valid comparison. Meanwhile, Belle only likes Beast when he's nice. She doesn't bond with him because he assaults her and therefore feels connected.

I have no idea what Hades and Persephone is beyond, what, mythology? Mythology is full of horribly violent misogynistic stories. It's not a place I look to for modern romance tropes.

 

I don`t know that I would describe Kylo as "giant".

 

well, maybe not a giant but in Daisy's own words



@AhsokaSolo

Doesn't matter, it's the same trope. It isn't unheard of. Also, Rey and Kylo started as enemies on the different sides of the war. So theirs was to be a tad more extreme than beast holding a grudge against the garden vandalism.

 

It is unheard of. They're not the same at all. That's like saying if a teenager from Nightmare on Elm Street fell in love with Freddy Krueger, it would be the same as Beauty and the Beast.

Rey and Kylo didn't start as enemies on different sides of the war. They started with Kylo fighting for team genocide, and Rey an outsider that was forced against her will into the war, all because Kylo was obsessed with murdering his galactic hero uncle.