What is the difference between a Dark Jedi and a Sith?

Just a question:
If Lucasarts, an extenision of George Lucas himself after a fashion, approves everything having to do with his universe, based on the idea that everything is in continuity (outside some comics that is), then why would he have two video games in which Jedi Knights use "dark" powers when he knew such an act would cause such "controversy", and then allow such things to enter the books?
The only answer is that Lucasarts approves of the idea of there being a grey area, where Jedi can use both "light" and "dark" powers.
And at no point whatsoever did Jacen use the Force to kill anyone.

 

I agree with some of what has been said, I posted something like this in the ATOC forum boy those guys don't like EU.

My point was about Dooku who went from
Master Jedi to Dark or Fallen Jedi to Sith Lord but he might be playing like a double agent pretending to be a sith to destroy a sith. He doesn't care who dies in the process of his Ultimate Goal which is to kill Sidious.

If a Master Jedi one day went besserk and chopped the heads off of 12 people would he be instantly a Sith, NO.

Rather as has been brought out he could now be called 3 different things that all make sense.

1) Dark Warrior
2) Fallen Jedi
3) Dark Jedi

They all equal the same a bad force user.

Sith has there codes and Jedi have there codes.

Of course a Jedi could convert to a Sith sort of like someone changing there religion.
But they need something to teach the them Sith ways. They just couldn't wake up one morning and say i think i'll be a Sith now.

 

"Dark Jedi: Evil Jedi Knights operating during the clone wars called Dark Jedi, and a group of them threatened the Bpfasshi System. The reborn clone Emperor Palpatine later evisioned a new breed of Jedi Knights, trained under the tenets of the Dark Side of the force and loyal to him for the thousand years he expected to rule. Ninteen years laterafter the Battle of Endor, the second imperium attempted to train a new legion of Dark Jedi at the shadow academy, in an effort to retrake the galaxy and reestablish the empire."-guide to star wars universe.

Officially, EU is canon, and in-universe, the term Dark Jedi exists. In some cases it is a term for jedi who have fallen. In other cases it's a term for actual orders like the jedi knights, that were trained in the dark side, and with their own codes of conduct, and there own definitions of justice and order, while being trained in the darkside.

For that matter, according to Dark Empire sourcebook, Emperor Palpatine was a Jedi Master himself.

"Jedi" is actually a neutral term, that neither means good nor evil, though most that use the term, the main order to do so, is good.

As for kyle katarn, in the case of jedi outcast, the story writer, in an interview once, stated that kyle is on a grey fringe struggling with using the light, but uses dark powers as well, that could make him cross over to the dark. He stated that kyle was travelling a precarious path that could lead to him falling in time if he continued to use those powers.

 

Kyle Katarn is Lost Jedi, Count Dooku is best descripted by the term Dark Jedi, and Darth Sidious is undoubtly a Sith.

To be a Sith you need to know Sith Lore, history, and alchemy.

To be a Dark Jedi all you need is Black Clothing.

 

I have a question. How do the sith lords get their names? Like anakin changing his name to vader and the emperor and also cout dooku changing his name at the end of Ep 2. Can anyone help me out?
I don't think dark jedi change their names just the sith when they take up the title Darth.

 

Kyle Katarn has never actually, ever reached the point of being a Lost Jedi as he never permanently stayed out of the jedi, and only took a few sabbaticals from the jedi order, kind of like thracia cho-leem. Kyle has never fallen either, even though he has come close a few times.

"To be a Sith you need to know Sith Lore, history, and alchemy."

Well, note that quite that there are Dark Jedi that know, "Sith Lore, History, and Alchemy", and even used them. But were not part of the "sith order", and were more like "Sith Cultists".

Of course the jedi order knew alot about "Sith Lore, History, and Alchemy" as they keep alot of that knowledge in holocrons for safe keeping to know their enemy. They on the other hand didn't use that knowledge, and if they did they tended to go dark.

"I have a question. How do the sith lords get their names? Like anakin changing his name to vader and the emperor and also cout dooku changing his name at the end of Ep 2. Can anyone help me out?
I don't think dark jedi change their names just the sith when they take up the title Darth."

It's not known actually, not all sith use the name Darth or change their names, yet we know of a few that did.

Also there is a few instances in the EU of Dark Jedi changing there names as well, IIRC.

So changing names is neither a sith only attribute nor a dark jedi attribute, as far as I know.

 

"To be a Dark Jedi all you need is Black Clothing"
Now THAT is how it should be.

 

Well, going by that logic, luke would have been a Dark Jedi in ROTJ, because all he needed to have to be a dark jedi was to wear black clothing, .

 

Well, Luke did give in to his anger, and he wasn't properly trained in the non-aggressive aspects of the Jedi Code...

 

Hey, Genghis what happened to your Sith/DarkJedi dialouge?

~PAd

 

Man you guys make me laugh.

To say Jedi is a neutral term, where was this ever written? PPOR

Dark Jedi as a separate entity from Jedi and Sith could never possible work, because you can only have allegiance to one side or the other of the Force.

So Dark Jedi in a sense are Sith
There is no difference. But Dark Jedi as its own term, a separate entity, is an oxymoron and makes a mockery of both sides of the key to the Star Wars galaxy.

But I'll stick to the ideals that George Lucas' films portray, and the prequel books which thanfully dont mention such blasphemous terms.

 

It originates in the Essential Chronology, and the secrets of the sith books, among other places.

The earliest jedi were merely philosophers that studied all aspects of the force, light, dark, living and unifying. Each with there own opinions what the force was, and how it worked.

"In time the jedi formed an order of Jedi Knights"-secrets of the sith,

who believed that the power should never be used for personal gain or wealth. These later generations of jedi also began to believe that they should have an active role in the government, helping to defend the republic, and spreading justice.

Some of the jedi who disagreed with these new tenants began a war called the great schism, which ended with what the new order "The jedi knights", called, "dark jedi", being exiled to the unknown regions.

So yes the term jedi, according to those sources originated from a neutral philosophers that studied and used all aspects of the force. Where as the Jedi Knights evolved from the early jedi, and "dark jedi"(a term created by the jedi knights to denote the dark nature of those jedi that chose to practice dark side arts) were a break off at that time as well.

 

PaD...
You must mean this one It'll also help Terrious with pointing out the differences. (I do note that it was made prior to the revelation regarding the Fallen 20 being Masters)...

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The following is from the TPM novellization.[ul]"The Sith had come into being almost two thousand years ago. They were a cult given over to the dark side of the Force, embracing fully the concept that power denied was power wasted...He was alone at first, but others from the Jedi order who believed as he did and who had followed him in his study of the dark side soon came over. Others were recruited, and soon the ranks of the Sith swelled to more than fifty in number." (The Phantom Menace, Terry Brooks, p. 135)[/ul]1. The Sith are a cult given over to the dark side of the Force who fully embrace the concept that power denied was power wasted.

What does one call someone given over to the dark side of the Force who has not fully embraced the concept that power denied was power wasted? That person is NOT a Sith. That person is also NOT a Jedi, Jedi have no connection to any belief - either partial or full - that holds power denied is power wasted.

2. What does one make of someone who believes - either fully or partially - that power denied was power wasted, yet is not a part of the Sith cult. They are NOT Sith, because Sith as of 2,000 prior to ANH were a specific cult.

3. What does one make of someone who has given themselves to the Dark Side that is not part of the Sith cult. They are NOT Sith, because Sith as of 2,000 years prior to ANH were a specific cult.

4. What does one make of someone who has given themselves to the Dark Side, yet has no belief regarding the concept of power and/or the denial of power. They are NOT Sith, because Sith have given themselves to the Dark Side and believe fully that power denied was power wasted.

5. There were more than [b]FIFTY[/b] Sith. That number was an unknown quantity of former Jedi. It could be all 19 outside of Dooku who left the order and became Sith, or it could have been 10 or five. We know it was [i]at least[/i] 3 of the "Fallen 20" - if such a group actually exists. The initial Jedi who left to start the Sith cult and the other[b]s[/b] (plural, at least two more) who quickly joined him.

Therefore, aside from the original Sith cultist, what does one call his two to 19 Jedi cohorts prior to their initiation into the Sith cult. Remember...
1. They ARE/WERE Jedi.
2. They HAVE given themselves over to the Dark Side.

6. Now, speaking of the non-Jedi who joined up with these three, what does one call them prior to their initiation into the Sith cult. These are people who...
A. Are NOT former Jedi.
B. HAVE given themselves over to the Dark Side.

But, we don't even need to bring the EU into it at all to know what the only answers are...

1. The Jedi who turned were "dark" Jedi, or "evil Jedi," or "bad Jedi." As in...[ul][color=red]Dark Jedi: Hey, you original Sith cultist, I want to join.
Darth Original: Why do you think I should let you join?
Dark Jedi: Because I'm an evil freakin' Jedi, that's why.
Darth Original: Have you embraced the Dark Side?
Dark Jedi: Yes.
Darth Original: Do you fully embrace the idea that power denied is power wasted?
Dark Jedi: Yes.
Darth Original: You are now a Sith. You shall be known from this day forward as Darth One.[/ul]
2. The non-Jedi who came to join them were "darksiders" or "followers of the Dark Side" or "users of the Dark Side." As in...[ul]Darksider: Hey, you evil Jedi...
Darth Original, Darth One and Darth Two in unison: Call us Sith.
Darksider: Hey, you Sith, I want to join your cult.
Darth Original: Have you embraced the Dark Side.
Darksider: Yes.
Darth Original: Have you fully embraced the idea that power denied is power wasted?
Darksider: Yes.
Darth Original: You are now a Sith. You shall be known from this day forward as Darth Three.[/ul]And both opposed to...[ul]Darth Original: Who are you.
Jedi Master: I am Jedi. I wish to joi

 

Of course Lucas put another Dark Side force user in his movies, in Ewoks: The Battle for Endor. She obviously wasn't a sith, and existed when vader, and palpatine were holding the positions of sith at that point in time.

 

The thing is that there (post Bane) can be only two Sith at one time. Furthermore, only 20 Jedi had left during AOTC, one became a Sith, which leaves you with 19 that could be properly termed "Dark Jedi" if the term is to be taken literally - as being a former member of the JEdi Order, or if "Jedi" is just a name applied to a Force user in general by, say, the general public (who don't know a lot about the Jedi and probably even less about the Sith)

Before AOTC it was said 20 had "left the order" though Dooku is the only one we know who actually became a Sith. However, there is nothing said of why the 20 who left the Order did so, or that all of them turned to the Dark Side after leaving.

In TPM I think it was more the case of the Council thinking the Sith were extinct and simply not wanting to accept it, rather than thinking Qui-Gon saw a "Dark Jedi" per se. Qui didn't know what to make of it at first...he was no doubt surprised and had just been fighting for his life "whatever it was, it was well trained in the Jedi Arts" and then later told the Council he believed it was a Sith (after he had time to think about it)

-Tim

 

Again 2nd Quest,

Its a matter of opinion. Besides I'll stick to my belief.


One thing i think you said that a Jedi can turn to the Darkside and not subscribe to the belief the Sith have that power is wasted if it is not use or whatever.
Well when you turn to the Darkside thats the philosophy of the DARKSIDE not the Sith.

Besides I mean we're both using the films here to suit our opinions/beliefs.

I just happen to believe that Dark Jedi could not exist as a separate entity. Dark Jedi are the opposite of Jedi which means they are the Sith

Thats my opinion. I respectfully disagree with yours.

 

Darth_Tim: Actually of the mythical 'Lost 20' they are the only Jedi masters who have left the order. There are cases, such as that of Aurra Sing, where Padawan's or Jedi Knights did not reach full amturity and became 'dark'.

 

"What is canon?

Sue Rostoni (Gamer #6 - Oct/Nov. 2001):
Canon refers to an authoritative list of books that the Lucas Licensing editors consider an authentic part of the official Star Wars history. Our goal is to present a continuous and unified history of the Star Wars galaxy, insofar as that history does not conflict with, or undermine the meaning of Mr. Lucas's Star Wars saga of films and screenplays. Things that Lucas Licensing does not consider official parts of the continuous Star Wars history show an Infinities logo or are contained in Star Wars Tales. Everything else is considered canon.

Within the Literature forum, we treat the whole of the Expanded Universe as canon. This point is not up for debate."-forum rules/faq

If the EU stated it, it happened, according to this board, and LFL itself, and, "This point is not up for debate."

If you disagree take those thoughts to movie boards, but they can't be debated here.

Again I point out Lucas own canonical Ewok movies, that had a Darksider that was not a sith, named Charal, which totally tears up your oppinion anyways.

 

I kinda wish that the force lightning and choke had remained exclusive to the Sith - this would have made it obvious that the Sith are a cult of dark side users who have developed their own skills and powers through training.

A dark Jedi should actually only be able to do the things a Jedi can, but use those powers for evil... eg. levitate a person and drop him off a cliff for example. Or mind trick a farmer into handing over all his money, etc. etc.

By making force lightning and grip Dark side powers and not sith powers, it makes it harder to distinguish the differences between sith and Dark side users, and makes the sith also seem less dangerous than the run of the mill dark jedi.

I've always thought that while Dark Jedi are dangerous, Sith Lords are completely badass and should not be messed with... ever!

 

You are awhare that luke used force choke at the beginning of ROTJ right? He used it to knock out the gamorrean guards near the beginning of the film. The novelization points out this fact explicetly, while also forshadowing darkness that is in luke's character.

 

A Dark Jedi is not simply a former Jedi who has turned to the darkside, but one who completely opposes the Jedi philosophy. It is this belief that separates the Dark Jedi from an ordinary darkside user.

If Dooku turns out to NOT be a double agent, he would be a Dark Jedi and a Sith.

A normal darkside user might just be someone who cheats at gambling to get ahead in life, while not caring at all about the Jedi-Dark Jedi-Sith struggle.

From SWRPG chpt 9:
Jedi=believers of a code, protectors of good.

Dark Jedi= believes that the Jedi Order should be destroyed, using a corruption of the Jedi beliefs.

Sith=Wants to use the Sith arts to aspire to rule the entire galaxy. Would eliminate both Jedi and Dark Jedi to achieve goal.

Not all Sith control their emotions,and not all Dark Jedi loose control of theirs.

Shira Brie,an Emperor's hand(which is a specific dark side user) did not transform into Lumiya until she lost control of her emotions. "...her force abilities deepened, in direct proportion to her rage.."

 

Sith=Bad me
Jedi=Good me? (what does everyones else in the order think)
Dark Jedi=I don't agree with the jedi.(Moth eaten old gits or impressionable young idiots)
This is my take on things for better or for worse (probs' worse)

 

It's an over-simplification just to label the Sith as evil.
The Sith believe in the theory that the dark side of the force must be used to its fullest in order for the Sith to obtain ultimate power.

Consider Caeser Augustus to be a historical example of a Sith. He was given his title by the Senate, and promptly took control of Rome, turning it into an Empire about 27BCE. Under Augustus, and his eventual successor Trajan(the Sith Apprentice)Rome reached its greatest expansion. This was called the Pax Romana.
It was good if you supported the Roman Empire, but horrible if you did not.

Augustus, like Palpatine, was not completely evil, he just wanted to be the ultimate power of the ancient world. This is what the Sith want, and they will eliminate all who stand in their way.