What threat could the Vagaarians really pose?

I mentioned this elsewhere, but I want to make a discussion based on just this question. Having nearly finished Survivor's Quest, and wondering again why I'm buying these bland books, I found myself asking an interesting question.

Do Vagaarians really pose a menace?

Maybe in the Unknown systems, perhaps, but against the greater galaxy? Their suspended animation tech is no big deal; and they were fighting mostly with the weaponry available in the Dreadnoughts. I understand the reasoning for that: that any sensor scans could pick them up in their deceptive ship, so they used someone else's. But their style of combat, pretty inelegant command authority . . .

And what's the deal with wolvkils? Just generic predators that don't feel pain.

Or perhaps it was the way Zahn powered down everyone in action. They blundered around in general, not really fighting to their fullest creative combat skills, 501st and Jedi. I bloody well saw nothing elite or special in the 501st. They just shot with their blasters most of the time.

And how does laser bolts deflect off their standard stormtrooper armour, when scores of books have them drop like flies? Took a while to damage them. Yes, some blaster shots at them were pwered down, but really . . . it was incredulous to believe.

I had the distinct impression the Jedi weren't fighting to their fullest creative ability, and the Vagaarians certainly didn't pose that much threat all up. So, why do people hope or suggest they'll turn up in the future? I don't undertand.

 

I didn't think they were that great an enemy either. As for the 501st, it could be that their armor is stronger then normal stormtroopers because they were called Vader's Fist, so they could have been like his version of the Imperial Royal Guards.

 

Was it ever said that the 501st used the same armor as those used by the other Stormies? The EoTH may have made improvments on the armor.

 

And how does laser bolts deflect off their standard stormtrooper armour, when scores of books have them drop like flies?

According to sourcebooks, the armor can deflect"glancing " blows. Just not dead on blows from blasters.

 

Give me a source, where the Jedi fought with "full power" or "most creativity", that isn´t Jedi-****ing at its worst.

And Stormtrooper-armour is designed to resist most blaster-weapons.

 

It's not "Vagaarians," just "Vagaari."

 

I don't hope that they will turn up in the future, but I believe that they probably will, because that's what Del Rey was implying towards the end of Survivor's Quest. And besides, the fact that the Vagaari remain relatively undefeated leaves the door open for a possible return.

I really hope that they don't return, though, it would make the post-NJO books even more unoriginal.

 

Remember that the the Vaagari were mostly using blasters they appropriated from the Outbound Flight Dreadnaughts, blasters whose tibanna gas over the decades had dissipated and as a result resulted in weaker blaster power; IIRC Chak Fel mentions how ineffective the old basters are. Good book, I just finished it a few weeks ago, I really wish Zahn wouldn't have referred to the Stormtroopers' blaster rifles as Blastechs the entire time. (Yes I know Blastech make the E-11s, but it just sounded goofy; so when stormtroopers are using SoroSuub Stormtrooper Ones they are firing SoroSuubs?)

 

I think the stormtroopers just named themselves that. I doubt Vader had anything to do with it.

 

They were called Vader's Fist, as in the whole 501st. Yes they more than likely gave themselves their own nicknames.

 

But they weren't the real Vader's Fist; 501st Legion. They were formed as a copy of them, as the book said.

Yeah, I know their weaponry were powered down, as I acknowledged in the opening post. But it felt like they were armed teddy bears. There was nothing really menacing about them. Actually, they read like the Zhirrzh!

Aww, shut up, Darth Guy. I knew you'd say that.

 

Am I that predictable?

 

The 501st were "revived" because they're Earth's own Imperial garrison, and Zahn is cute like that...

Bear in mind that some of the troops are probably clones, concievably of troopers from the old 501st...

As to the Vagaari, there are two options:

(1.) they posed a serious threat to the stability of their home space - an area of small, low-tech (by SW standards) and often marginal/nomadic civilizations, and they were being used as proxies by the YV or another biotech-using alien threat - so and Formbi decided they needed a smackdown...

(2.) the Chiss Ascendancy (= Sith Empire) were duping them into an attack in order to conquer their territory, and also testing out the mettle of the élite forces of the two galactic superpowers in preparation for future plans of conquest...

- The Imperial Ewok

 

And based on that, McEwok, I think it made them even less credible as a menacing threat. You didn't really find out much of the Vagaarians at all. You only saw their level of deception and woefully inadequate combat prowess.

Nope, Darth, just a simple Guy. Although I do wish I could something these days without an annoying typo I missed after double checking. Pitty I can't redit after expiration; oddly enough, I can outside Lit in certain places.

 

Excellence...
"Having nearly finished Survivor's Quest, and wondering again why I'm buying these bland books... Or perhaps it was the way Zahn powered down everyone in action. They blundered around in general, not really fighting to their fullest creative combat skills... I had the distinct impression the Jedi weren't fighting to their fullest creative ability"

It's Zahn, why did anyone expect any more than this? You seem to be like Charlie Brown to Zahn's Lucy. Why do you buy the books. The only thing it does is help convince Lucas Licensing to dump more of his bland books onto us.

Characters who are "powered down?" This is the hallmark of a Zahn Star Wars novel. Characters blundering around in general? That's the epitomy of a Zahn Star Wars novel.

Powered down Jedi, this is the chosen one of his own prophecy to depower the Jedi. He's the man that stated outright just prior to the release of TPM that Jedi don't have superpowers like superspeed, and that Episode I will prove his opinion correct.

The sad thing for all of us, is that it proved his ideas of the limits of Jedi powers 100% completely wrong.

So, we got stuck with yet another "Zahny" novel.

 

Last night I read a bit more, and just saw that droideka scene at the end, and I have no choice but to agree with you there, Genghis.

Aside from the fact I knew there was going to be a droideka---what you often see at the beginning of something is repeated full circle at the end (especially Onslaught and Ruin)----I was simply astounded at what I was reading.

It was as if Skywalker and Jade had absolutely no chance against a droideka. It's hilarious, like what Matt Stover kept saying in Shatterpoint---how Windu nearly died in Emissaries to Malastare's Circus Horrificous arena. A free-thinking person would ask back: what would stopped Windu from just jumping out of the arena?

But I do seriously question why I'm reading these wizards who don't display their powers skillfully---and the hand that types them.

 

Ex: the Vagaari aren't a threat like the YV... they're just... Vagaari... as to why Formbi wanted the Jedi Skywalkers and a squad from the 501st along for the ride, I think that has as much to do with the Jedi and the 501st than the Vagaari...

And, um, Ghengis, Ex, there seems to be a flaw in your logic regarding Prequel Jedi and droidekas.In TPM, Qwi-Gon and Obi-Wan run away from the droidekas using the silly "super-speed". Zahn, given his known opinions on such issues, is quite clearly passing comment on that scene with the Destroyer Droid in SQ...

The "threat" it poses is programmed into continuity by George's dreck, and Zahn, while wryly accepting the ugly mess that's been hammered onto the front of ANH since TPM, has Luke and Mara deal with it in the way he - like most pre-1999 fanboys - thinks Jedi should...

Personally, I like that - just like I Jedi whose abilities reflect character and instinct, rather than being bleached, characterless übermensch...

EDIT: consdiering the TPM references in this novel - compare and contrast the Vagaari with the Neimodians?

- The Imperial Ewok

 

I think the true significance of the Vagaari lay not in their martial might (if they consider one Dreadnaught significant, an EotH Star Destroyer taskforce should be overkill for them) but in the political benefits of defeating them (making the EotH look good among the locals in that region) and whatever they could learn about potential Vagaari contacts with other threats.

 

If we're questioning this kind of thing, what threat did the Yevetha really pose? Or the Sacorran Triad? Every little two-bit "evil empire" is talked up to a galaxy wide threat in the EU. But in the case of the Vagaari, I think the threat they were most worried about was not the Vagaari themselves, but their mysterious allies who gave them all thier new organic technology. (maybe the Vong, maybe not)..

 

The Vagaari biotech (and possible extragalactic contacts) was probably what got the EotH so interested in them. The Yevetha, on the other hand, were threatening in that they had a fleet of Imperial Star Destroyers and the capability to produce more, while the Sacorrian Triad could potentially take control of Centerpoint Station.

 

It's a proxy war - why can't you people grasp that? The 501st and the Jedi are doing dirty-work for Formbi and whatever interests he represents, while the Vagaari are the proxies of some biotech-using aggressor in the Unknown Regions, likely either Sekot or the Yuuzhan Vong...

And even on their own terms, while the Vagaari might only be a threat to ordinary innocent people in some obscure and un-newsworthy corner of the Unknown Regions, rather than the oh-so-much-more important political agenda of the New Republic's hegemonic élite ( ) that in itself doesn't mean it's not urgently necessary to take them down, for the sake of the otherwise helpless innocents they're threatening...

- The Imperial Ewok

 

TMcE:
I want you to contact Del Rey and get them to approve a series of books called "The Thrawn McEwok Star Wars Companion", wherein you get paid to dissect, analyze, and reconstruct the SW Universe.

I'd buy 'em.

 

I've got a feeling that defeating the Vagaari wasn't necessarily important in a strategic way of things, but it was all about image. The Chiss and EOTH swoop on the Vagaari fleet and wipe it out.

Message sent to the rest of the Unknown Regions threats: "Do not **** with us!"