What touches in ROTJ are the Results of Richard Marquand's Work?

No Respect For Marquand at all... I just read the 20th Aniversery Edition of ROTJ Insider and the only mention of Marquand in the entire issue is that he was the Pilot in the AT-ST thrown out of the Driver's Seat By Chewbacca.

Kind of an Appropriate Image to how he must have felt "directing" that movie... Lynch saw what was going to happen... Didn't want to be placed in that position. Lucas is trying to erase him from history...

 

RICHARD MARQUAND

* 17.04.1938 Cardiff, WALES
+ 04.09.1987 Los Angeles, USA (heart attack)

http://us.imdb.com/Name?Marquand,+Richard

If I recall correctly I read in some SW magazine that Peter Mayhew complained
that Marquand didn´t deal with the actors in suits (Baker, Daniels, Prowse) as respectful as Kershner did,
and that´s why he preferred Irvin over Richard as a director.

 

Did Lucas take control away from Marquand because he didn't like what Kershner did when he had freer reign? Was Kershner able to hold more control over Empire because he was a stronger personallity than Marquand... or did Lucas trust Kershner more? Was Kershner even concidered to Direct Jedi?

 

Did Lucas take control away from Marquand because he didn't like what Kershner did when he had freer reign? Was Kershner able to hold more control over Empire because he was a stronger personallity than Marquand... or did Lucas trust Kershner more? Was Kershner even concidered to Direct Jedi?

Why do you keep saying Lucas took the control of ROTJ away from Marquand? The way you say it makes it sound like you're referring to Lucas a filmaking tyrant.

 

How did Marquand die anyways?

Of a heart attack. He was 49.

Kind of an Appropriate Image to how he must have felt "directing" that movie... Lynch saw what was going to happen... Didn't want to be placed in that position.

Want to provide some evidence to back that up?

Did Lucas take control away from Marquand because he didn't like what Kershner did when he had freer reign?

Nowhere is there any indication that Lucas "took control away from Marquand." There were two scenes that Lucas directed himself -- one was Vader's unmasking and the other, I think, was Luke and Vader's conversation on the bridge after Luke surrenders -- but that was because those scenes were very personal to him.

Was Kershner able to hold more control over Empire because he was a stronger personallity than Marquand... or did Lucas trust Kershner more?

According to Kershner, Lucas asked him how he wanted to direct it. He said, "By myself." Lucas complied, and he told Kershner: "You're a better director than I am."

Was Kershner even concidered to Direct Jedi?

Yes. In a SW Insider interview (20th Anniversary ESB, UK version), Kershner said that he was asked back to direct ROTJ, and he said no, but now he wishes he'd said yes, because he feels he could've done something wonderful with it.

I don't know how many times I'll have to repeat that before it sinks in. Lucas did not fire Kershner. Lucas did not hate Kershner or what he did with ESB. Lucas did consider him for ROTJ, even asked him, and Kershner said no.

Lucas is trying to erase him from history...

Oh for crying out loud...

I hate how people try and make Lucas out to be a tyrant who is out to "minimalize" everyone who worked on the movies. Marquand probably isn't that big a presence in the ROTJ Anniversary issue because he, you know, kinda died in 1987, and is thus not available to comment. It's really too bad, just like it's too bad he died before the Annotated Screenplays came out; I'd love to have seen his comments. (Kershner, by the way, is a very big presence in the ESB section -- so much for Lucas trying to minimalize everyone.)

Also, I very much doubt Lucas personally said, "Minimalize Marquand in that issue." Lucas is busy working on Episode III; I doubt he has time to bother with SW Insider.

 

The only evidence I have to back up the Lynch Coment is from Lynch himself in the Book "Lynch on Lynch".

The Evidence I have to back up Lucas's Influence on Jedi is in every documentary ever produced for Star Wars (Especially Star Wars to Jedi) Marquand is nowhere to be found... yet George is everywhere making ALL the calls. Producers influence yes, but Lucas Dictates... and if he doesn't like it he'll change it in post.

Also a Quote from Ian McDiarmid {Paraphrased} "I'm Glad Lucas is Directing... On Jedi it was like recieving direction through a filter".

And a Quote from Ron Howard on the Willow DVD: "It is not like I'm actually directing this movie... It is More like I'm Vice President of Cinematic Affairs"

Marquand had little to no free will on Jedi.. He was A Technician to Lucas.


Would you like me to Sight more Sources... Or do you have any Specific Points that Look Like Marquands Direct Influence??

You note that Kershner is a big part of the ESB 20th... I Never said that Kershner was Minimilized... We have Plenty of Info about him... He's a Star Wars Icon. Surely their were old interviews with Marquand that could have been dug up, or quotes that could have been published for the first time. In Everything Ever Published about the Star Wars Saga... How Much Refference has EVER been Given to Marqaund? Surely not as Much as has been given to Dennis Muren, John Dykstra, John Knoll, or Rob Coleman. We hear more about the Woman with Monkey Eyes than we do about the "Director" of Jedi.

 

Marquand had little to no free will on Jedi.. He was A Technician to Lucas.

You make it sound like he was a slave to Lucas

And even if Lucas had a big role in the making of ROTJ, why is it such a huge deal? At the time ROTJ was made, it was quite possible that ROTJ would be the last SW movie.

SW is a story George Lucas created. He developed the special effects, the characters, the plot. Everything. When he made ANH, he had a very bad movie-making experience which is why he passed over the directing status to others.

Now, when it comes to ROTJ, it was the last SW movie in the trilogy, and the most importaint. I think Lucas having a large role in finishing his story for the OT is nothing terrible.

It's quite possible Marquand wasn't a very involved director. It's quite possible Marquand didn't care as much as George did. Who knows? Nobody.

 

The only evidence I have to back up the Lynch Coment is from Lynch himself in the Book "Lynch on Lynch".

Which is?

The Evidence I have to back up Lucas's Influence on Jedi is in every documentary ever produced for Star Wars (Especially Star Wars to Jedi) Marquand is nowhere to be found...

So? Lucas is the creator of SW. So of course they're going to highlight what he does. BTW, Marquand referred to ROTJ as "his movie." My proof: interview with Harrison Ford, "Seventeen" magazine, 1984.

yet George is everywhere making ALL the calls.

About what?

Producers influence yes, but Lucas Dictates...

About what?

and if he doesn't like it he'll change it in post.

Well, yeah, he's an editor too, that's what editors do.

Also a Quote from Ian McDiarmid {Paraphrased} "I'm Glad Lucas is Directing... On Jedi it was like recieving direction through a filter".

Could you give the direct quote instead of something paraphrased?

And a Quote from Ron Howard on the Willow DVD: "It is not like I'm actually directing this movie... It is More like I'm Vice President of Cinematic Affairs"

And...?

Marquand had little to no free will on Jedi.. He was A Technician to Lucas.

Got proof of that?

You note that Kershner is a big part of the ESB 20th... I Never said that Kershner was Minimilized... We have Plenty of Info about him... He's a Star Wars Icon.

Yeah, part of that is because he's still alive. Marquand died four years after ROTJ came out.

Surely their were old interviews with Marquand that could have been dug up, or quotes that could have been published for the first time. In Everything Ever Published about the Star Wars Saga... How Much Refference has EVER been Given to Marqaund?

I don't know, I haven't checked.

Surely not as Much as has been given to Dennis Muren, John Dykstra, John Knoll, or Rob Coleman. We hear more about the Woman with Monkey Eyes than we do about the "Director" of Jedi.

Oh really? Can you provide evidence of that, or is it just what you think because you want to portray Lucas as a tyrant?

It's quite possible Marquand wasn't a very involved director. It's quite possible Marquand didn't care as much as George did. Who knows? Nobody.

And it's also possible that Marquand wanted Lucas's input on everything. It all depends on how you choose to look at it. People with an anti-Lucas agenda will see it as him being a tyrant who made Marquand his puppet, just like they take him saying that SW isn't his life as, "Lucas doesn't care about his story! He's completely apathetic!" People without that agenda will see it as, "Lucas was involved with the movie and with Marquand's direction."

 

Wow LottDodd, you get your head bit off for an OPINION eh?? Why don't you guys lay off of him and stick to the original topic, which is whether or not Richard Marquand managed to leave any kind of impression of his own on the film. I personally have always had the image that he was never free to do everything he wanted to do with the film for whatever reasons. Sure, that may be an uninformed OPINION, but please feel free to inform people without attacking them!

By the way, Richard Marquand also directed the supernatural thriller THE LEGACY starring Katharine Ross and Sam Elliot from 1979. Reviewing that film for his directing style may lead to clues toward any personal touches he may have left on ROTJ!

 

It was LottDodd who went off the original topic and decided to make it "Lucas wants to erase Marquand from history" and to perpetuate the crap about Kershner "not being asked back" (he was asked back) "because he stood up to Lucas and Lucas wanted a puppet."

I don't know where Marquand's "personal touches" are in ROTJ, although I do know that it was he who suggested Ian McDiarmid for Palpatine. If Marquand were still alive, he might tell us where his personal touches were. I fail to see how any movie couldn't have at least some personal touches from its director, for better or for worse.

I don't get the impression Marquand was a puppet who wasn't free to do what he wanted, either. Maybe he was, but I wasn't on the set, so I don't know.

 

Well Shelley, I have always very much respected your arguments on these forums when I have come across them, especially in defense of Episode 1, I just happened to disagree this time! Actually, I have absolutely no idea where the idea about Richard Marquand being a puppet director ever came from, but I have always had it linger in the back of my mind nearly ever since the film was released. Perhaps it is an opinion derived from the small things that Lottdodd has pointed out. I have never been of the opinion that Lucas is an evil tyrant dictating control over his directors, but for SOME reason this idea concerning ROTJ slipped into the back of my mind long ago. In LottDodd's defense, that was the only point I was trying to make!

Oh, and thanks for the information about Director Marquand being responsible for selecting Ian McDiarmid to play the Emperor! I didn't have a clue as to that one. Richard's master casting stroke is one of the best things that could have happened to both Episode 6 and the prequels!

Here is a complete list of Richard Marquand's works from the Internet Movie Database:

Director - Filmography
(1980s) (1970s)

Hearts of Fire (1987)
Jagged Edge (1985)
Until September (1984)
Star Wars: Episode VI - Return of the Jedi (1983)
Eye of the Needle (1981)
Birth of the Beatles (1979)
Legacy, The (1978)
... aka Legacy of Maggie Walsh, The (1978)
Big Henry and the Polka Dot Kid (1976) (TV)
Luke Was There (1976) (TV)
Edward II (1970) (TV)

--------------------------------------------

Writer - Filmography

Nowhere to Run (1993) (story)
Luke Was There (1976) (TV)

 

It was Marquand's work on Eye of the Needle that actually got him spotted by Lucas, after Kirshner and Lynch decided against it.

I don't think we'll ever know for certain how much was straight from Marquand and instances where Lucas decided to step in.

As for Marquand not getting recognition...sadly, the less-positive reaction from fans to ROTJ (compared to ANH and ESB) at the time meant that he wasn't approched for major interviews at the time, and he died before this oversight could be corrected.

 

I love how Shelley ads quotes ("") when she says I have posted things to convince you I said it: ("because he stood up to Lucas and Lucas wanted a puppet.") It makes attacking me so much easier when you make up what you think I'm saying rather than Paying attention and reading my posts.

I asked wheter Kershner was asked back or not because I Didn't know.

The Ian Mcdiarmid Quote comes from the Supreme Chancelor Palpatine Issue of Insider that came out before Clones... The Interview is available somewhere in theforce.net's archives if you don't have the issue. The Ron Howard quote comes Directly from the Willow DVD... I thought it showed a precedence to how other director's felt under Lucas, and since I don't see any Marquand Interviews I have to Draw from available source Materials. Any Decent Biography on David Lynch (and their are quite a Few) will mention Return of the Jedi... His Warriness about the Project is Well Documented, and the Result's are probably best for both the fans of Star Wars and Fans of David Lynch.

I LOVE LUCAS... I am GLAD HE IS DIRECTING THE PREQUELS. I do not mean to bash him or his Film's in any way (except a little bit of innocent teasing now and then).

Marquand has always been a Man of Mystery to me. Mostly because of his untimely death, but also because I don't see his personal Fingerprints on Jedi as clearly as I see Lucas's or Kershner. The PT and ROTJ feel like they are woven by the same hand, they have the same flavor, pacing, and sense of Humor. ESB is the only movie in the Saga that sticks out as something different... And other than Robocop 2... I haven't seen any of Kershner's work either, so I don't have much source Material to gather his Visual Flare or Directing Style from... But Undoubtably Kershner was able to do some aspects of the film different from the Lucas Mold. At the time of ESB Lucas wasn't quite LUCAS yet. It is his First time as Executive Produccer, His First Time Letting someone else Write the Script, and his First Time Letting someone else Direct. I think he gave the people he delegated responsibillity to more Freedom on this Project... Just as he would have liked to have had a Producer asked him to be on another's project. I feel he wasn't comfertable with this Loss of Controll (maybe he had too much free time on Empire) and he wanted it Back for Jedi. By the Time Jedi hit, Lucas was LUCAS and Star Wars was STAR WARS. He was one of the Most Powerful Men in Show Buisness, and he wanted to make the movie He wanted to make.

I also Love to debate. But Debate Requires another side to the issue. You don't have to agree with me, but if your going to Refute my arguments "and... ?", "Oh Really?", and "I don't know. I havent checked." doesn't really cut it as proving yours. Instead it merely tries to erode my position with Sarcasm because you do not have the tools neccesary for bolstering yours.

 

I love how Shelley ads quotes ("") when she says I have posted things to convince you I said it: ("because he stood up to Lucas and Lucas wanted a puppet.") It makes attacking me so much easier when you make up what you think I'm saying rather than Paying attention and reading my posts.

I asked wheter Kershner was asked back or not because I Didn't know.

My apologies...I jumped down your throat and that was uncalled for.

I'm sorry.

The Ian Mcdiarmid Quote comes from the Supreme Chancelor Palpatine Issue of Insider that came out before Clones... The Interview is available somewhere in theforce.net's archives if you don't have the issue. The Ron Howard quote comes Directly from the Willow DVD... I thought it showed a precedence to how other director's felt under Lucas, and since I don't see any Marquand Interviews I have to Draw from available source Materials. Any Decent Biography on David Lynch (and their are quite a Few) will mention Return of the Jedi... His Warriness about the Project is Well Documented, and the Result's are probably best for both the fans of Star Wars and Fans of David Lynch.

I found this interview with Lynch online (it's translated, so they call ROTJ "Return of the Yedi":

The Return of the Yedi
TIP: George Lucas got in touch with you because of "The Return of the Yedi" at that time.

Lynch: Yes. George Lucas got in touch with me at the same time Dino [De Laurentiis] did, and I had to make an important decision. George was great. He´s a living legend, but although I was really fond of him, I realized that his projects are entirely his projects, and I prefer to do my own.

TIP: You wouldn`t have had the same creative freedom like when shooting "Dune"?

Lynch: Absolutely not. In Georges imagination the movie was already done. It wouldn`t have made a difference with me doing it. It would have looked exactly the same.

TIP: Did you ever regret not doing it?

Lynch: No, I really don`t know how it became public that I was Involved, because I never told anybody.

(Tip Film Jahrbuch 1985, my translation)

I LOVE LUCAS... I am GLAD HE IS DIRECTING THE PREQUELS. I do not mean to bash him or his Film's in any way (except a little bit of innocent teasing now and then).

Marquand has always been a Man of Mystery to me. Mostly because of his untimely death, but also because I don't see his personal Fingerprints on Jedi as clearly as I see Lucas's or Kershner.

Maybe not, but then I don't know what his personal fingerprints are. It's hard to get a grasp of him as a director.

The PT and ROTJ feel like they are woven by the same hand, they have the same flavor, pacing, and sense of Humor. ESB is the only movie in the Saga that sticks out as something different...

I don't think so. I think TPM and AOTC both have a different feel to them than the PT, and actually, TPM feels more like ESB than it does like AOTC.

But that's just my feeling.

 

Marquand knew what he was getting into. He was able to see how much independence a director would get on Star Wars under Lucas with Kershner in ESB. Therefore, I don't think it's too far-fetched to say that he was fine with the level of independence he was given. If he wasn't, I doubt he would have taken the job. Unfortunately, he's dead, but I do hope some archival interviews can be dug up for the OT DVD release. I'd like to hear what his favorite scene to shoot was and stuff along those lines.

And I don't think he's being wiped out of the SW picture for whatever reason. The credits still say and will also say that he was the director.

What interests me is this topic about ESB standing out from the rest of the trilogy/saga. I know this isn't the thread to discuss it, but I'm sure this has been discussed before. Can someone send or post some links to topics either in the CT or Saga forums concerning ESB and how it sticks out from the rest of the trilogy/saga?

 

You know I hadn't thought about that before but you're right - Marquand isn't seen much in the documentaries made at the time, and they made more for Jedi than the other 2.

I know that Marquand got to choose some of the cast including Mike Carter - Bib Fortuna and the cinematographer - Alan Hume. Personally I thought Hume's photography was a bit dull.

In interviews done on it's release Marquand was quite content, he took it seriously but was happy for Lucas to make the final decision on things.

It's open to interpretation but I agree - there isn't much in the way of a 'Marquand style' on the pic. He did treat the Luke-Vader scenes with particular respect, thankfully. I just think on a picture this big a lot of shots were farmed out to the second unit, a bit like the production style of a James Bond movie.

Apparently Lucas was limited in his choices for a director because he'd had trouble with the Director's Guild a couple of years previous, that's not a slight against Marquand, just thought I'd throw it in.

Jagged Edge was an excellent thriller and a lot of movies rip it off.

gez

 

because he'd had trouble with the Director's Guild a couple of years previous

Yes, that's true...I think it was for ESB. Wasn't it something to do with not showing any credits until the end, and he got a big fine? Since Kersh didn't get credit until the film was over, instead of before the picture starts as with every other film.

It was a pretty stupid, petty thing to do, in my opinion. Lucas paid the fine and viewed it as another example of Hollywood trying to dictate to him.

 

Yes -

the Director's Guild said Lucas had put his own name at the front of the Pic (Lucasfilm) but not Kershner's; the rule says that if the producer's name is on the front then so must the director's.
as Lucas pointed out - his name is not Lucasfilm; but they fined him anyway; he was bitter about this and I don't blame him.

Why they decided to do it is beyond me, if there's one guy who always gives credit it's Lucas, he gives bonuses when he's under no obligation to do so, now that is going against tradition! George - you're supposed to steal it not give it away! Billy Wilder once said "Hollywood producers have rubber pockets so that they can steal the soup."

something else I'd like to add to the ROTJ discussion - it does seem that the production was much more regimented, now understandably Lucas was worried cos it was his money, but quite often a shoot that has friction turns out a good movie. Or maybe I just remember the tales of those movies which had trouble.

The only real criticism I'd make of Lucas on Jedi is the special edition, he could consult with Kersh for ESB but Marquand was dead and tampering with another directors movie after he's dead is a bad precedent to set.

gez

 

"The only real criticism I'd make of Lucas on Jedi is the special edition, he could consult with Kersh for ESB but Marquand was dead and tampering with another directors movie after he's dead is a bad precedent to set"

He could, but did he? I seem to remember reading that Kirshner was not consulted on the SE changes at all and did not agree with several of them! Don't ask for sources because I haven't the foggiest idea! I could be wrong though!

 

I think that is also against Directors Guild Rules... I wonder if he faced any reprecutions for that? Maybe he cut a deal with the unions...

 

He could, but did he? I seem to remember reading that Kirshner was not consulted on the SE changes at all and did not agree with several of them! Don't ask for sources because I haven't the foggiest idea! I could be wrong though!

Kershner actually liked the SE changes. One of them was a background that he'd urged Lucas to use in the initial release, but Lucas rejected. Kershner was glad to see it be put back.

I read that in Salon.com. I have never read that Kershner didn't like the SE changes to ESB, anywhere. And Kershner has said he doesn't like the prequels that much, so if he didn't like ESB: SE, he'd say so.

I don't see a problem with changing ROTJ. nor do I think it's disrespectful to Marquand's work. The SE ending was something Lucas had wanted to do back when the movie was made (Annotated Screenplays), but the technology just wasn't ready. Maybe he'd even talked about it with Marquand, and explained that in the future, when he had the technology, he'd put in the ending he truly wanted to do. Who knows, if Marquand had lived, maybe Lucas would have brought him in to direct it.

 

Thanks for the info concerning Kershner and the SEs Shelley. More creative memory on my part eh? I agree that changing ROTJ for the SE was not disrespecting Marquand though because the changes didn't alter the overall movie in any way, but rather improved the effects and/or made possible what was originally not possible (yes, even in the case of the new musical number [face_shocked])!

 

But it does beg the question -

should studios (or whoever owns a film) be able to cut or change a film after the director has died, for instance there was the colorization of King King and other B+W pictures.

gez

 

And Just like the South Park Episode, Spielberg and Lucas are now making a special edition of Raiders of the Lost Arc...

 

Yeah I'm a bit worried about that, I hope they don't replace all the guns with Walkie-Talkies!

Raiders is extremely violent, I think people forget just how violent it was, I was amazed it got away with a PG rating. But I just hope they don't change it, just clean it up if you must guys, but don't change it.
Changing movies is always so dangerous , even if its done bythe people who made them, because even then they aren't the people who made them - Lucas and Spielberg aren't the same people they were 25 years ago.

But back to Marquand - the scene I really felt was his, which was really good - is the scene between Luke and Vader before they go up to the Death Star, the conversation where Luke is trying to reason with him, it's real drama, beautifully played, and directed with a gentle style that doesn't intrude or show off, it just lets the players do their thing, another great scene by Mark Hamill too.