What was the original plot for Episodes 7-9?

...and up again. Great thread.

 

And UP a 3rd time!

 

I like the bookend idea too. Barring actually making another trilogy that would be nice. BTW, what is this talk about another trilogy spoiling things? Look at James Bond:Sure, there have been a few bad ones in the soon-to-be 20 film series, but there has been a couple of good ones as well. Plus, this is Star Wars we're talking about which has even greater potential for 9-12 films than Bond ever did. Heck, make a pre-prequel that goes way back to the beginnings of the Jedi, the Galactic Republic, and the Sith.
I know Lucas has said he doesn't want to turn it into Star Trek(he said this during a Fox News interview upon TPM's release) but how about a trilogy of trilogies as someone suggested? There's clearly room for a sequel trilogy and a possible other one.

 

I say "BRING THEM ON!!!!!"


I, for one, think there should be no doubt GL will give "VII-IX" a shot. Once the last of the PT is out and done, there will have to be something out there to keep Star Wars interesting to the masses. There are only so many "EU" books and comics that you can put out there and Games just make people hungry for more. Patience! He will always try to surprise us and his labor of love will always be the SW universe.

 

This is a GREAT topic! LOVE IT!

 

Adali,

Thanks, I had a great holiday (seeing friends I hadn?t seen for over 3 ½ years). I hope you?re still there to carry this on.

Those are certainly some interesting thoughts you have regarding the Thrawn trilogy, your ideas about the origins of Mara Jade, for example, seem very plausible. I?ve heard people say that they were the only EU books with input from Lucas but have never seen anything official confirming this.

To be honest, my major hang-up with Thrawn and most of the EU is that the Empire is still around; I think the ending of ROTJ heavily implies that the Empire is gone forever.

"The idea of a personal Palpatine castle on a mysterious planet is something that was often thrown around in story meetings for the original films, but eventually dropped completely from the saga."

This idea was going to be originally used for Vader?s ?castle? in TESB, then for Palpatine?s chambers on Coruscant (in a place so deep that lava is actually present) in ROTJ, I think we might well finally see this idea used in Episode III.

Here?s another piece of an interview with Lucas, what makes this special is that it?s the only time were I?ve actually seen with my own eyes Lucas talk about sequels (and so there?s no possibility that this is a misquote); it?s also from the best interview I?ve ever seen with the man, taken with Johnny Vaughn on The Big Breakfast in the UK:

JV: The way I imagine it is that George has this great big leather book, covered in dust, it?s the chronicles of space and you?ve written the whole thing already and it?s complete in your own mind. Is that right?

GL: No, that?s wrong.

JV: You don?t have the complete story, mapped out from the start, all those years ago?

GL: No.

JV: Okay, nice one, so you?re winging it.

GL: No, I have a little story treatment, a little outline that says this happened here, this happened here and in the first one I had all the scripts but I had to rewrite the scripts so they went along because since they became three movies they had to have different structures and things but the ones I?m working on now was the back-story which I?d written out which was this was where he comes from, this was where he comes from, this is what the clone wars were about, it?s just a little outline that goes right through the plot of the movie and where the characters came from and what they did ? it?s only about 7 or 8 pages.

JV: Oh that?s brilliant, all those people that think you?ve schemed the whole thing up, but in fact ? George Lucas, he makes it up as he goes along.

GL: (laughs)

(N.B. As we?ve all seen, the reason why people think he had it all planned is because of the voluminous notes and histories he talked of in the past.)

- Later on in the interview ?

JV: Why did you go back to the start of the saga and didn?t finish the story of Luke, Han and Leia, etc. Will you ever finish that story?

GL: No, I won?t because ultimately this is all that I?ve had written, this is the back-story to the original Star Wars and I haven?t wriiten any sequels and I?m too lazy to go out and do it.

 

So, because GL is lazy, we´ll never see any Episode VII-IX? Nice try, George

I must say I like this thread. It´s one of the best I´ve read in a looong time, because here I get loads of ideas for my future rewrites of Episodes VI-IX and I-III.

Thanks, ReaperFett

 

Wedge; That was cool!

There's never much info from the man himself on this. But I found a Film Review interview with Ewan McGregor from March 1998 where he's asked a lot about SW, and one of the questions is "What is the new movie called?", to which Ewan replies - "It's called 'The Beginning', funnily enough, as it's the very beginning of the 9 films". ?

I agree with you about how the EU keeps the Empire hanging around, it's not too good. And this would also be the major problem for Lucas if he did 7-9; how to make cool bad guys? It's easy enough to bring back the heroes that lived, but they must be up against something - and I don't think it's possible to top the Empire and Vader/Palpatine. Actually, I think one of the major reasons why Lucas shouldn't do it is this very thing. Since he decided to bring in Palpatine in RotJ, the suspense of 7-9 was killed. Anything he could come up with now would be re-threads of what we've already seen. So the PT films are much more interesting, imo!

The name of Vader's stronghold that was originally planned for TESb was Bast Castle, I think. Or is that the former Vader castle we visit in the Darl Empire series? Anyway, it would be cool to see some form of this in one of the new movies!

Btw; I actually like the Thrawn Trilogy. It's fresh and true to the characters, while not simply resurrecting old plots. Thrawn is cool, a different Imperial bad guy to the ones we have in the movies. And I like Talon Karrde, Mara Jade and Joruus C'Baoth. My beef is with Dark Empire - dreadful! That's a cheap collection of resurrected plots and characters...

Boba Fett returns, without his memory - oh, contrived plotting...
And the superweapon is still there - World Devastators, The Galaxy Gun...jeez...
But worst of all - Palpatine is not dead! This is exactly what you talk about Wedge - an EU story that completely ruins the impact of the movies. I mean, what the heck is the point of Anakin Skywalker's rise, fall and redemption? He rids the galaxy of the Sith evil! But in DE - no, he didn't. Palpy just cloned himself back. Well, that is simply crushing the whole point of the Anakin character, who happens to be the central character of the entire Star Wars Saga. Not good.

The Thrawn Trilogy is nowhere near these depths of storytelling, it's got genuinly original and exciting ideas! And the showdown between Luke, Mara and C'Baoth might have been what was intended for the Episode 9 showdown between Luke, his sister and Palpatine. It's curiously close to the ideas people like Kurtz refer to.

Does anyone agree..?

 

Adali,

I thought the evil in the ST could be something intangible, maybe like The Great Nothing from "The Neverending Story" (I always felt that film had something great about it, moreso than virtually any other fantasy) or whatever it was in "The Fifth Element" and Luke and his apprentice have to go on a Holy Grail like quest to do whatever, not actually a villain as such, then. Also, Luke's character could be explored more deeply through this idea.

That McGregor comment is exactly the sort of quote that gets thrown up every now and again, so annoying because it indicates the great man is still thinking about it....AAARRRRGGH!!! He obviously did tell McGregor this.

I must confess I've never read Thrawn, just got the audio tapes, seemed okay. I've been told about DE and agree with your thoughts completely about it. The only EU I've actually read was the Jedi Academy series (as I thought they might be somewhat like the ST), but they were horriffically bad IMO.

Cheers, Adali, hope to hear from you soon.

 

I once heard the ST was about the adventures of a surviving character from EPIII. Possibly, a new Sith (I won't say anything because I am a spoiler junkie) could survive the PT and live to train Sith through the OT. Then, just as the Republic and the Jedi Order is returning, an entire order of Sith reveal themselves to continue the apparent Jedi/Sith war that happened 1000+ years before TPM. Luke could have maybe a son (from a dead wife or no wife[I don't want any EU characters such as Mara Jade in the ST])who could be trained as a Jedi to stop a new Sith master and his apprentice (the new Skywalker boy's twin brother maybe?) and their threat to the galaxy.

 

Lucas isn't dead yet. Maybe twenty five years from now he'll get bored with his retirement again and make a third trilogy. It can start with, "A Not so New Hope, Given the Original Trio is in their Forties and the Only One who has Aged Well is Harrison Ford." Then again, Carrie Fisher may have to be replaced anyway. I think we all saw "The Burbs".

 

Lucas isn't planning to retire but to make other movies, and I'm really anxious to see him direct something else.

Wedge; The problem I have with bringing in a new evil is that it will inevitably diminish the evil of the Sith that rages in the 6 currently done/planned films. And if the Sith carried on, it would inevitably diminish the impact and importance of Anakin's life and death. The way I see it it's impossible to make movies beyond RotJ without messing up the films in a major way, like making Anakin's sacrifice in RotJ pointless or useless...

Btw; Read the Thrawn Trilogy, or the comic adaptions. I think you'd like it, and I'd be pleased to get your point of view on them! Don't bother with DE, though. Stinks. Imo, anyway. Cheers!

 

I gotta read the Thrawn trilogy, especially after reading these posts!
Perhaps Thrawn was originally a new Sith apprentice?

 

This is an excellent thread, even though it makes me feel like the entire series has been one big missed opportunity.

"While I think a third trilogy might spoil things, I think an Episode VII (incorporating his ideas from his "tiny notebook", if such a thing exists) might be nice"

This is what I was thinking as well. Everyone assumes that it has to be a trilogy or nothing, but I see no reason why Lucas couldn't make one final episode, possibly supplementary to the main 6 episodes, to tie up any loose ends and put a cap on the whole thing.

I like Return Of The Jedi, but it doesn't do a particularly wonderful job of truly ending the series, even though all of the main story arcs are concluded in it. A final episode could give the series a proper send off, while also tying up the plot strands that were mostly left out of Jedi (the re-establishment of the Rebublic/Jedi etc).

Lucas could even stick to his old idea of carrying over a character from ep 3. Hell, if Mace Windu doesn't bite it in the next two episodes, who else could better represent the return of the Jedi?

Do it Lucas! you know you want to.

 

I agree with Nrf-Hrdr. [face_shocked]

But I also think that the new trilogy and especially Episode III will give RotJ some considerable help in ending the saga properly, 'cause we'll have a better impression of how it truly starts and ends with the Jedi vs the Sith and with the character of Anakin Skywalker. So I think I'll wait till 2005 before I make up my mind about further adventures.

Lars_Muul; Do read it! It's the only piece of EU I really recommend. Although I haven't nearly read all of it. But C'Baoth can't have been anyone's apprentice, because RotJ ends with the Sith Master finally dying without anyone to follow him. Hmmm, that's actually a pretty amazing ending to the saga, it makes a lot of sense. Can't see how anything else could be better.

 

If it'll make you feel more comfortable, i'll start disagreeing with you again now.

Before the prequels I thought Jedi was a perfectly fine way of finishing the series because issues like the re-establishment of the Republic and the Jedi weren't really relevant to the story being told, so it was perfectly understandable that they weren't given any screentime in the film.

With the prequels, we've now got these and a bunch of other themes and plotlines thrown into the mix, and ROJ isn?t just marking the end of the OT stories, but the PT stories as well. Obviously we?ll all have to wait until episode 3 before we really know how well it?ll all fit together, but it strikes me that Jedi won?t be able to provide a satisfying finale to the saga as a whole because it doesn?t even mention most of the stuff we were following over the first half of the series. Some kind of epilogue episode would have a better shot at doing this, because it would be able to specifically reference the prequels in ways that Jedi is unable to.

 

Good Points Nrf-Hrdr. It would seem there's enough material for a sequel trilogy at least when dealing with the heroes. the question I have is:Who would the villain be? Personally, I would like something new beyond Sith, but what I have no idea.

 

Nrf-Hrdr,

Naturally I agree, although IF we take it that Lucas is telling the truth now that he never had an ST story to tell, in spite of what he's said in the past, I think my idea of an Epilogue (with the old cast returning in seconds long cameos) would be the best - a montage after the celebration at the end of Jedi, I think it would work well.

Adali-kiri,

As you know I agree with you, my opinion was based on the idea that Lucas may once have had ideas for sensibly carrying on Star Wars into an ST (even though he denies it now and I believe him, he used to say very different things), I have no idea what those ideas were (if they did ever exist), I cannot see how to carry on the saga without ruining Anakin's redemption, but I'm not Lucas. Maybe he did once have an idea, only Lucas knows for sure. Hope that made sense.

 

It did.

Nrf-Herdr;
That's better, let's disagree. I think you have a point in your last post, but on the other hand very few films actually go into details with re-establishing order at the end. We know that the Sith are dead. We know that the Empire is gone. Now, do we really need to see the Alliance rebuild a government and resurrect the Jedi Knights? Imo, no we don't. That would be the stuff of sequels IF there was an enemy/ a menace rising to challenge the New Republic. If not, there wouldn't be a conflict and we'd have a very dull time at the movies.

Braveheart ends with the Scots running into battle and a voiceover saying they win the battle and their freedom. We don't get to see them actually leading the Brits back home and setting up a new independent government in Edinburgh, and establishing the order that's been missing all the time. 'Cause we don't need to. Then you may argue that Lucas will actually show us the order that existed before the storm, and thus we need to really SEE it restored. But I just don't see why that is necessary, 'cause there is no drama there, it's just politics and stuff like that.

So imo, RotJ ends it perfectly - it brings a conclusion; the Rebels defeat the Empire - no doubts there, all is crushed. And the Sith are wiped out - the only 2 remaining Lords die, as simple as that. At the very end one of them is even restored to his former Jedi self and shows himself to Luke (the only surviving Jedi) along with Kenobi and Yoda - which to me is a perfect ending, saying "we won, evil is gone, it will be fine in the end". And that's where the story ends, it's all I need to see. If it was to go on, the emotional impact would be diminished. It's wisely left to the EU.

 

Up. This is a very good thread, imo.

 

Wedge;

I think the importance of Anakin's redemption has been heightened considerably with the production of the PT of films, and I don't think Lucas really saw that as a main point to the story back in say 1980. Now though, it definitely is, and in being so important I think it effectively puts possible sequels in an impossible situation.

Actually, the more I think about it the more I feel that it should end with RotJ. Even the title is perfect for a final chapter! But I do like your idea for bookending the saga on that final DVD release. That would be really neat.

 

Adali,

Good point, in 1980, Lucas probably thought the prequels would focus mainly on Kenobi, and not Luke's father - makes more sense imo that they do focus on Anakin.

However, Lucas was still banging on about sequels well after this time.

In regard to your last point, I agree, sequels seem out of place, BUT if Lucas had said in '95 that after finishing Ep III he'd be moving onto the ST I doubt if anybody here would be complaining!

 

Yeah, I sure wouldn't have. But back then I hadn't seen the prequels and didn't understand how RotJ seems to tie everything together as the concluding chapter to the saga. And more than that I feel that yet 3 more films will devaluate the whole SW name a bit - it will be too much. Even 6 movies might actually be stretching the legendary status SW enjoys - 9 could be killing it.

 

Basically, all the character, story and thematic arcs are tied up in Jedi. Unless Lucas shrewdly sets up the potential for new ones in the next two episodes, a sequel trilogy would need to start again from scratch, which would offset the balance of the whole series. I don't think anyone really wants that, just for the sake of a few more space battles and lightsaber fights.

 

I just wanted to comment on an quote from earlier in the thread, about McCullum knowing the plots for a ST.

I don't know what kind of impression many of you have of McCullum(sp?), but I myself do not like the man. I get the feeling(correct me if I'm wrong)that he's a pure "Hollywood type" assigned to Lucas by Fox to keep tabs on their huge money cow, Star Wars. I could be wrong, but after watching the "Making of Episode I" documentary on the Ep. I DVD, I just don't like the man. I have a bad feeling about him, pun intended.

So here's my fear: Lucas is resolute, he doesn't want to do more Star Wars. But Fox decides it wants more movies(read:more money)and decides that they're going to do it, with or without Lucas. So ol' Pat knows a very "skeletal" outline of a ST from many talks with Lucas. He is made head of the new Star Wars sequels after Lucas is long gone(I doubt it would be very long)and then begins to make the sequels.

Unfortunately, they are poorly written by some hack screenwriter they hired to "embellish" Lucas' ideas, and are peopled by UPN and WB twenty-somethings who couldn't act their way out of a fish tank.

The result: The greatest movie epic ever created is destroyed, sullied by ill-conceived and needless sequels.

Have I watched too much X-Files or let my cynicism over being a former Star Trek fan poison my outlook? Or am I on the money that we should, at the very least, fear McCullum?

Your thoughts, please.