What would Bane think of Sidious?

Sidious was the culmination of 1000 years of the Banite Sith...he was no doubt immensely powerful in the dark side, but what would Bane have thought of him? Sidious killed his master in his sleep, presumably because he thought Plagueis was too powerful for him in normal combat, which totally goes against what Bane believed, that only a more powerful apprentice should succeed his master.

This is proved when Sidious makes the disasterous error of choosing Anakin as his apprentice, which leads to the end of Bane's Sith after only 20 years of power. Would Bane have been appalled by Sidious, or would he feel that Sidious's downfall and the downfall of the Banite Sith was inevitable once the Chosen One came on the scene?

 

I think killing your master while you're asleep proves you're considerably more powerful than them, actually.

 

Agreed. If his master was so powerful he would have sensed the danger of Sidious about to kill him while he slept. Any Jedi or Sith who can be killed in their sleep doesn't sound all that tuned into the Force to me.

 

Bane would applaud Sidious. Yes he killed his master in his sleep but that could be seen as too trusting of his apprentice, which is a weakness a Sith master shouldn't have. But think about this. Bane was all about hiding and not revealing that the Sith even exist. Except Qui-Gon, the Jedi didn't know for sure that Maul was Sith until the day Sidious is elected Chancellor. Sidious is the master of hiding in plain sight.

Now about his downfall, i guess he'd be as disappointed as a spirit could be.


EDIT: Jeez Ulicus and MattDoc posted by the time i typed my post.

 

My joke has failed.

 

Are you sure? Jesse James is reputed to have known that Ford was behind him, ready to strike. What if Plagueis was prepared to
die, and knew that his murder by Sidious was the natural Sith order of things?

 

Don't worry. At least one person got it!

 

Oh, that was a joke? I thought it was a good point, actually.

 

I assume the joke is "killing your master while you're asleep." That's what I got at least.

 

Ah, play on words. I see what you did there. I get it. I get jokes.

 

I think Bane would be about as proud as a Sith Lord could be because Palpatine took over the galaxy, something that was his goal but knew that he wouldn't be able to in his lifetime. I'd think he'd start scorning Palps once he finds out just how many force sensitives Palpatine took under his wing and taught. There were something like 10 inquisators and then 20 hands that Palpatine had during his rule.

 

One thing I think Bane would truly admire about Sidious... the dude manipulated events so that he essentially wiped out the Jedi Order with their own troops. He barely even had to lift a finger.

 

Exactly! It was very Bane-esque. Reminiscent of what Bane did to Kaan's Order.

 

And the Secret Apprentice, Dark Acolytes, Shadow Guards, Sovereign Protectors, Eyes, Reaches, Voices, Prophets of the Dark Side, Dark Side Elite, Dark Jedi, an admiral and a Grand Admiral, and plenty of assorted other adepts. Not all at the same time, mind you, but surely enough to give Bane pause.

For some reason I think it's really cool that Palps basically had this huge Sith order in all but name.

 

Exactly! The entire Baneite order was about weeding out every single weakness in their Sith Masters until, at last, they get someone strong enough to off the Republic and put the Sith in charge. The thing with Plagueis is, well, we have the word of GL that Sidious is basically the Dark Side incarnate, we keep getting hammered over the head in the ROTS novelization that he IS what the Baneite order was working towards. Even better, since the Darth Bane novels show us that you're supposed to face your Master not at the time and place of THEIR choosing, but at YOURS, and that a Baneite Sith is supposed to be smart enough to not show weakness when he's with someone capable of killing him...

Given all the indications we get from the ROTS novel (which I'm just a few pages away from finishing again, BTW), Sidious it the kind of guy who would have been able to overpower his Master outright- but then again, why would he when his Master was stupid enough to basically roll over, show Sidious his belly, and say, "Kill me, I'm a kriffing moron who doesn't know not to sleep soundly when I know my apprentice is trying to kill me"?

See, the Baneite Sith are all about weeding out all the weaknesses in their Sith Masters, and this incident actually did so- in Dark Lord, we get that wonderful line where Palpy muses to himself that sleeping isn't a mistake he'll ever make.

Given all we know about Sidious, about how he's called in- and out-of-universe the greatest Sith Lord of all time (at least up until the OT era), saying he could take Plagueis straight-up is a no-brainer. The thing is, not only is killing Plagueis when the Muun made the mistake of thinking himself safe enough to sleep in Palpatine's presence perfectly in-character for Darth Sidious, it also makes sense as a Sith move- he eliminated his Master when he made such a catastrophic tactical blunder that he proved himself unfit to lead the Sith.

I'm not sure Bane would have been exactly pleased, but that opinion only comes because he wasn't pleased with Zannah, either, even though SHE WAS FOLLOWING HIS TEACHINGS TOO. Bane, to me, struck me as someone who, for all his capacity for scheming, always came back to raw power in the end.

He was upset Zannah hadn't faced him in open combat yet, when the reason was she was following his dicate that she needed an apprentice waiting in the wings FIRST. He wondered why she wasn't jumping at the sight of his trembling hand, when she was too crafty to just assume Bane wouldn't try to trick her like that. He thought she lacked the proper drive, when in fact Zannah was so desparate to be the Sith Master that she settles on a shiftless Dark Jedi like Set Harth and tries to convince herself that he'll make a good apprentice in her haste to get it over with.

I mean, I spent the entirety of Dynasty of Evil sitting there shaking my head at how karking STUPID Bane was, how much of a freaking HYPOCRITE he had to be to be thinking Zannah was a failure BECAUSE SHE WAS FOLLOWING HIS TEACHINGS EXACTLY. It was just so kriffing RIDICULOUS that I'm fairly certain my opinion of Bane will NEVER recover.

In the end, it's a case of Bane's ideas being greater than he was, which is why Zannah surpassed him. It's also why Bane's opinion of Sidious doesn't necessarily have any real bearing on how well he was following the Baneite teachings- after all, if Bane couldn't see how well Zannah was following his teachings even KNOWING her, how can we expect him to be an accurate judge of Sidious?

NOTE: it's basically 11 at night, and I pulled an all-nighter last night, and the cursor won't stay at the bottom of the window I'm typing in (seriously, why does it do that here?), so if I made any mistakes or failed to finish any sentences, well, I have a few valid excuses.

 

Bane would admire sidious for his great power and deception, BUT he would spit on him as a rule of two sith, because Palpatine was not a true rule of two sith.

 

Sidious was, no is the greatest sith to ever exist. most powerful, most cunning, most intelligent of all the sith, he destroyed the jedi, left the order scattered and broken, with only two actually hoping to over through him and next to none actively opposing him.

 

Don't worry, I got a beautiful mental image of a sleepwalking Sidious wielding a lightsaber when I read your comment.


My hunch is that Bane's first reaction to hearing of a Sith like Sidious would have been negative--"Killed his sleeping master? Has tons of dark acolytes?!" But I think if he actually saw Sidious and all he'd accomplished and was capable of, he couldn't do anything but admit that Sidious was the true fruition of the Sith lineage.

 

Bane would say "Get out of my lawn!" while pointing at Sidious whatever blaster rifle the Sith used in the New Sith Wars.

 

Bane's teachings actually allow the use of force-sensitive underlings, who get the necessary knowledge to do their jobs - just the number of "Lords" is limited to two.

And I think he would be very disappointed in Sidious for turning his back to his "conflicted" apprentice, but that isn't as bad as it sounds with Palpatine having found a way to cheat death.

 

I think Bane would be relatively pleased with Sidious. He successfully manipulated the entire galaxy, leading it to a war in which he controlled both sides. He brought down the Jedi, and the Sith were in control of the galaxy.

However I think he may be a bit disappointed with how he handeled his apprentices. When you think about it, Darth Maul is the only one who didn't screw up in some way. Dooku had Ventress answering to him, Vader had Starkiller and there was also Lumiya.

Overall, I think he'd be pleased...but dissappointed in some regard.

 

There's no way of knowing how Palps and Plagueis would fare in a head-on lightsaber battle, but that's beside the point. This isn't DragonballZ so I don't think the Sith measure "power" in just those terms. They value stealth and cunning at least as much as lightsaber skills and midichlorians.

Putting aside the eventual downfall, Galactic domination was the ultimate goal of Bane's Sith. He just stayed hidden because he knew that was a cumulative effort over many generations. And Palpatine did take over the galaxy, he ruled it for over 20 years, just as long a period as Bane was a Sith at all. Then he got killed by his apprentice, which eventually needs to happen to every Sith Master *. But he had a good long run, kept the legacy going. It was Vader who's the failure for turning light at the end.



* But let's face it, sometime in those thousand years a master must have just totally randomly slipped on a mouse droid and broken his neck, leaving the apprentice to inherit his mantle; so the line of succession is almost certainly sullied.

 

Mixture of Pride and Jealousy.

All Sith ultimately resent each other...even their apprentices/masters.

So while Bane may be happy the long road he began finally perched a Sith on the throne of the galaxy...he still wishes it was him.

 

See, I personally think that this is some creative license that future Banite Sith took. It's technically allowed by the letter of the law, but I think goes against the spirit of it. Bane himself, I think, who have argued that the taking of multiple acolytes conflicted with the Rule of Two.

 

I think it's ironic that around the time of Plagueis and Sidious by which time the Sith were about to reveal themselves, the Chosen One comes on the scene. If I was Bane I would probably be disappointed in how the Sith handled this situation...they could have waited until the Chosen One was no longer alive before revealing themselves (which works as long as he doesn't fulfill the prophecy by uncovering the Sith and destroying them), they could've gone the Sidious route of trying to turn him to the dark side (which was always going to be high risk), or if Sidious knew Anakin was the Chosen One since he was a kid or a Padawan, he could've killed him before he grew in power.