When Anakin killed Count Dooku did that reaffirm that he was the Chosen One?

The dark side still exists, it's just not thrown out of balance because of the Sith. The Force is divided into good and evil, black and white, positive and negative forces, light and dark. The Sith throw the Force out of balance by bluring the lines between good and evil. By ruling the galaxy. Destroying the Sith puts everything back on a level playing feild. There will always be good and evil, the Sith just don't need to be there making matters worse.

 

I think there's a Mace quote in the RotS novel that explains it fairly well

"Jedi create light, but the Sith do not create darkness. They merely use the darkness that is always there. That has always been there. Greed and jealousy, aggression and lust and fear - these are all natural to sentient beings. The legacy of the jungle. Our inheritance from the dark."

 

And there's this.

"I wanted to have this mythological footing because I was basing the films on the idea that the Force has two sides, the good side, the evil side, and they both need to be there. Most religions are built on that, whether it's called yin and yang, God and the devil?everything is built on the push-pull tension created by two sides of the equation. Right from the very beginning, that was the key issue in Star Wars."

--George Lucas, ?The Mythology of Star Wars,? Joseph Campbell and the Power of Myth DVD, 2001


"The overriding philosophy in Episode I?and in all the Star Wars movies, for that matter?is the balance between good and evil."

--George Lucas, quoted in L. Bouzereau, Star Wars: The Making of Episode I, 1999

"The film is ultimately about the dark side and the light side, and those sides are designed around compassion and greed. The issue of greed, of getting things and owning things and having things and not being able to let go of things, is the opposite of compassion?of not thinking of yourself all the time. These are the two sides?the good force and the bad force. They're the simplest parts of a complex cosmic construction."

--George Lucas, AOTC Commentary.

"If good and evil are mixed things become blurred - there is nothing between good and evil, everything is gray. In each of us we to have balance these emotions, and in the Star Wars saga the most important point is balance, balance between everything. It is dangerous to lose this. In The Phantom Menace one of the Jedi Council already knows the balance of The Force is starting to slip, and will slip further. It is obvious to this person that The Sith are going to destroy this balance. On the other hand a prediction which is referred to states someone will replace the balance in the future. At the right time a balance may again be created, but presently it is being eroded by dark forces. All of this shall be explained in Episode 2, so I can't say any more!"

--George Lucas, Time Magazine article, 2002

"The dark side is always there. It is experienced daily by people. It is like a huge cancer, alive, festering?both a reminder of a moral state and, at the same time, symptom and symbol of a very sick society."

--George Lucas, ?The Mythology of Star Wars,? Joseph Campbell and the Power of Myth DVD, 2001

"I think it is obvious that [Qui-Gon] was wrong in Episode I and made a dangerous decision, but ultimately this decision may be correct. The ?phantom menace? refers to the force of the dark side of the universe. Anakin will be taken over by dark forces which in turn destroy the balance of the Galaxy, but the individual who kills the Emperor is Darth Vader?also Anakin. The tale meanders and both the prediction and Qui-Gon are correct?Anakin is the chosen one, and he did bring peace at last with his own sacrifice. Luke couldn't kill the Emperor himself, but he could make Anakin reflect on his life and kill the Emperor."

--George Lucas, Cut Magazine interview, 1999

"As evil begins to take over, it pushes the Force out of balance."

--George Lucas, AOTC DVD Commentary.

"It's not that they can't see the Dark Side coming, it's just that the Dark Side begins to envelop everything. It's like walking into a fog. The Jedi's ability to see lessens as the Dark Side grows."

--George Lucas, AOTC Commentary.

 

Oh well...

 

I thought Anakin got the scar in Jedi Trial.

 

He got that in "Obsession".

 

I thought he got it shaving?

 

This question is interessting. As well as the different point of view. But I think you ignore a very important fact. What is "balance" exactly?
While watching the PT, I had often the impression that the jedi think that balance means the total destruction of the sith and that there will be only
representatives of the light side. Yoda said that the prediction could be easily missunderstood. So what is "balance"? Balance means that both the dark and light side exists as well with equal strength.
During the time of the republic there where a stronger presence of the light side an during the "Dark Times" of the empiere the dark side was stronger. In RotJ Anakin kills the emporer and dies. Therefore Luke isn't
a Jedi Masterm (IMO) because he didn't finish Yoda's exercises and will never be able to be one as well as Leia.

So my conclusion is that it is the will of the force that neither Siths nor Jedi should exist anymore. Ignoring the EU, Luke and Leia wont be able to get a new generation of Jedi because of a lack of knowledge.

 

I came with the same idea in the Classic Trilogy forum once. Someone asked what would happen if Luke died in ROTJ and I assumed that it would bring the true balance to the Force. No Jedi and no Sith, just the Force.

However, as Andurias stated, usually 'balance' is understood as equal to Light Side.

 

Yoda thinks that they got the prophecy wrong, because of Anakin's behavior. Yoda and Mace begin to think that the Chosen One might not be Anakin. Which is why they focus on Luke once he comes to Obi-wan. They believe that he is the only one who can bring balance. But in the end, it's Anakin as he does what no former Jedi turned Sith has ever done. Turn back from the dark side and destroyed the Sith. Note the passage from Lucas where he says that Anakin is the Chosen One and he does bring balance, by destroying Palpatine. The Force has two sides. Good and evil. They must always be in balance to each other. They exist in all things. But when there is too much of one over the other, when there is too much moral ambiguity, then things go to hell. Anakin puts that back to it's proper setting, by killing Palpatine and dying in the process.

 

Bringing balance to the force is a sticky topic, as GL has given so many interviews and yet it like many other topics has not been clearly stated. GL explantion doesnt make sense to me.
It would be great if GL was sent the list of topics from both Classic and prequel trilogys and he spent a day or two answering them.

Question 1: Why does the existance of the Sith create such an imbalance in the force, while we have hundreds of Jedi running around. I dont understand how the force was out of balance when it had two Sith lords versus hundreds of Jedi. The force must have been really messed up thousands of years before, when there were a lot of Sith running around.

 

I for one can't understand how killing anyone can bring balance. But there are many strange things. Nor do I understand the question asked here. How does killing Count Dooku affirm that Anakin was the chosen one any more than OBW killing Maul?

 

The death of a Tyrant is liberating, no? So in the SWU, when the Sith rise, they are black holes of power and greed. The develop so much power that they pull things out of whack. If the legend of Darth Plagueis the Wise is true, he was able to use his dark powers to warp the force sufficiently and actually create life by simply willing it to be. For all other living things it takes a personal contribution on a totally different level.

The Jedi initially refused to believe that the Sith were back. At the same point, they were reluctant to believe that Anakin was a virgance in the force. Yet when it was clear that the Sith were back, Anakin took the first step of 'the chosen one' and defeated Dooku, a Sith apprentice. True, Obi-Wan also killed a Sith, but he was not a virgant being. So with Dooku gone, only the master remained.

Anakin could have fulfilled his destiny in Palpatine's office when Palpatine first revealed to Anakin that he was a Sith Lord. Anakin had a second chance when Mace had Palaptine cornered and asked Anakin to help him. This last opportunity is immediately after Sidious throws Windu out the window -- any true Jedi would have confronted this monster of evil even if death was a very real outcome of the confrontation.

Instead, it took over two decades in the suit and, more importantly, the discover that his son was alive, for Anakin to start reawakening. Bespin started Anakin on the road back. Luke's perfectly Jedi-like actions in the DSII throne room jerked Anakin back to reality, where he finally seized his 'last chance' and fulfilled his long-overdue destiny.

Lastly, it's been brought up by many on these boards previously that perhaps 'bringing balance' meant a purge of the Jedi order as well. The Jedi had failed. They let the Sith rise up and gain control of the galaxy. So I find it curious and a more than a bit ironic that at the beginning of ANH there are (so far as we know) only two surviving Jedi . . . . and two Sith. Coincidence?

 

Yes. The Jedi Order would have done their job and stopped the Sith had the Chosen One not betrayed them. The rebirth the Order goes through post-Purge definitely helps the Order, but it wasn't necessary.

 

I think Anakin killing Count Dooku would have made a very strong case that he was indeed the chosen one. I would consider Count Dooku to be a more formidable opponent that Darth Maul. why might you ask?

Well Dooku was far more experienced, he was a Jedi master before joining the Sith. And was a formidable swordsman. Darth Maul was around the same power level as Dooku according to GL, but like Anakin probably lacked experience.

So after Anakin killed Count Dooku on his own, the council would certainly have been secretly impressed ( perhaps impressed is the wrong word ). But they still didnt trust him fully. Basically because of his close relationship with Palpatine, a relationship the Jedi wanted him to use to gain knowledge of the emperors dealings. But Palpatine already knew they would use Anakin to get info on him. "They need you, more than you know".

 

It doesn't matter how experienced one is, the point remains that two Sith Apprentices were killed by two separate Jedi Knights. That's not enough to convince the Jedi that Anakin was the Chosen One or not. Just that he, like Obi-wan, managed to take out one of two. Now, as to balance, there's nothing that is wrong with Lucas explaination. I'll put it in simpler terms.

[image=http://www.smart-kit.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/balance-scale-redone.jpg]

This is a balance scale used to weigh two separate times to create a balance. It was mainly used years ago as a method of determining the weight of an item, so that the exchange of money could be done properly. For instanced, one would have an equal amount of food or gold coins in one, while adding another equal weight of the same item or something very similar, in order to balance the scale out. Okay, so this represents the Force in balance. Good on one side and evil on the other.

[image=http://discover.edventures.com/images/termlib/b/balance_scale/support.gif]

Here is the same type of scale only it is now out of balance. This represents too much of one and not enough of the other. In relation to Star Wars, it means that there is too much evil on one side of the Force and not enough good on the other. This happens because the Sith rule the galaxy, whereas the Jedi did not in their entire existence. Evil always existed before the Sith came about, but when they began their rise to power and the Jedi became blind and arrogant, the scales tipped in favor of the Sith.

[image=http://www.smart-kit.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/balance-scale-redone.jpg]

Here again there is balance when there is equal amounts of good and evil. This occurs when Anakin chucks Palpatine down the reactor shaft, before taking the big dirt nap himself. Good and evil will continue to exist, but the Sith won't be there influencing and controling things as before.

 

Obi-Chron: Can we even be sure that Anakin was the virgence in the force? If you are referring to what OBW sensed in TPM, I always interpreted it that he felt the return of the Sith. When the Sith began revealing themselves, he was able to sense it. It makes more sense than they should suddenly sense Anakin - why not sense him four, five, or six years ago?

 

QUI-GON : With your permission, my Master. I have encountered a vergence in
the Force.
YODA : A vergence, you say?
MACE WINDU : Located around a person?
QUI-GON : A boy... his cells have the highest concentration of
midi-chlorians I have seen in a life form. It is possible he was conceived
by the midi-chlorians.
MACE WINDU : You're referring to the prophesy of the one who will bring
balance to the Force...you believe it's this boy??
QUI-GON : I don't pressume...
YODA : But you do! Rrevealed your opinion is.

 

Ah yes, I stand corrected! But OBW also felt a vergence though, which I believe to have been the Sith. But I suppose that's really not the discussion here. You're right and I'm wrong

 

Technically, Anakin defeating Dooku did not confirm his as one of the most strongest Jedi in the galaxy. Sidious actually informed Dooku not to kill Anakin, so he wasn't able to fight to the best of his ability. If Dooku was given permission to destroy Anakin, then the outcome might have been different. Dooku really is one of the most underrated swordsman in the entire saga. He displays such skill and finesse.

 

He felt a disturbance, not a vergence. Many assume that they were sensing Anakin at this point. I disagree because it seems that QGJ doesn't begin to suspect anything special about Anakin until he hears about the Podracing and has the subsequent conversation.

 

Right -- and that 'disturbance' was at the beginning of TPM. Obi-Wan sensed something wrong, but Qui-Gon rightly reminded his apprentice tof focus on the here and now, the diplomatic negotiations at hand. In essence, Jinn was telling Kenobi not to put the cart before the horse as far as their immediate situation was concerned.

I do not think Obi-Wan ever connected his 'disturbance' with the Sith, at least until the end of TPM when Maul makes his appearance on Tatooine.

It is ironic that Obi-Wan is the one who scans the star charts and identifies Tatooine as a suitable location to make an emergency landing. In a sense, the force worked through Obi-Wan to bring Jinn and Anakin together. From the TPM script . . .

QUI-GON : We'll have to land somewhere to refuel and repair the ship.

QUI-GON studies a star chart on a monitor.

OBI-WAN : Here, Master. Tatooine... It's small, out of the way, poor... The
Trade Federation has no presence there.
CAPT. PANAKA : How can you be sure?
QUI-GON : It's controlled by the Hutts...
CAPT. PANAKA : The Hutts??
OBI-WAN : It's risky...but there's no alternative.
CAPT. PANAKA : You can't take Her Royal Highness there! The Hutts are
gangsters... If they discovered her...
QUI-GON : ...It would be no different than if we landed on a system
controlled by the Federation...except the Hutts aren't looking for her,
which gives us an advantage.

Imagine if Kenobi had pointed out another planet?

 

A couple thoughts in response to things I have seen thus far:

1) It is fairly odd that Anakin does not get more respect from the Jedi for killing Count Dooku. After all, Anakin had succeeded where Yoda, Mace Windu and a whole host of Jedi had failed. Perhaps killing Dooku, rather than capturing him, was seen as less of an accomplishment?

2) Dooku is far more powerful than Maul. Dooku was an equal of the greatest Jedi. Maul was killed by a mere padawan and never demonstrated true mastery of the dark side.

3) Anakin's victory over Dooku was meant to demonstrate Anakin's potential power as the chosen one. Dooku was made to be a contemporary of Windu, Yoda and Sidious to ultimately show Anakin's power.

 

If at possible, he should be brought in alive so that he can stand trial and also be questioned about Sidious.

He had true mastery, he just gotten arrogant and full of himself. All Sith do. Compassion is the weakness of the Jedi, arrogance is the weakness of the Sith.

Not quite. He's not in their league. He's in Obi-wan's league, only he has more experience than him.

Actually, he did fight to the fullest. He couldn't hesitate otherwise Anakin and Obi-wan would see through it. What Dooku learns is that Anakin's indeed stronger and more skilled than he was three years ago.

 

I must disagree with your point that Dooku is not an equal with Yoda and Mace.

Did not Dooku fight Yoda to a draw in AOTC? Did not Dooku once more fight Yoda to a draw in Dark Rendezvous, indeed, even wounding him? Did not Dooku defeat Windu at Boz Pithy?

Seems like he is able to hang with them quite well...