PT Who really won the Palpatine Mace duel?

And right here you admit there is no Jedi plot.
Mace was going with arrest, which Anakin saw and was fine with. But Palaptine kept trying to kill him and so he changed his mind and went, "Screw it, I am through with giving him chances to surrender."
So no Jedi Plot to kill Palpatine, no "Jedi are taking over". Mace was in arrest mode even after Palpatine had resisted arrest and killed three Jedi and tried to kill Mace. But when Palpatine AGAIN tried to kill him, Mace lost patience, got angry and went with kill.

And THAT was what Palpatine needed to get Anakin off the fence. Anakin could have it both ways as long as Palpatine was alive. But if Palpatine dies then Padme dies and THIS is why Anakin acts.
He says as much "I need him"

Bye.
Blackboard Monitor

 

Yes there is still a Jedi Plot.

When Anakin walked in…it was Palpatine on the ground unarmed with a fully drawn lightsaber Mace.

Mace then said:
You are under arrest my lord.

So Palpatine countered with:
“Anakin I told you it would come to this!! I was right!! The Jedi are taking over!!”

Mace then said:
“The oppression of the Sith will never return! You have lost!”

So Palpatine did his lightning saying no no you will die…followed by he’s a traitor…to I have the power to save the one you love you must choose…to finally begging.

That lightning was to piss Mace off to go for the kill while showing Anakin that the Jedi will do what the Sith will do at the end. They are the same as the Jedi.

So Anakin’s constraints to NOT BE the Bad Guy is gone because he was defending an unarmed man while the Jedi is about to do an un-Jedi action.

That doesn’t negate the Jedi Plot at all.

Palpatine told Anakin that good is a point of view. Mace got his lightsaber on his face..Palpatine has the right to do his lightning to kill someone who is a threat to him. He never said the Sith are righteous. He said the Jedi are like the Sith which Anakin did not believe before.

It’s what happened after that lightning that mattered.

Again the whole point of this Set Up was to be the Victim in the first place. How can that be if Mace was still going for arrest??

If he didn’t do the lightning then Mace and Anakin will simply arrest him. There goes his plans for framing the Jedi and making Anakin finally choose.

 

Yup!! So it’s basically GL’s fault again for messing up the choreography.

At least Nick Gillard acknowledged that the whole choreography is a mess.

At least the GL change of Anakin not being there is a better one making Anakin NOT deciding beforehand that he will join Palpatine BUT instead was forced into a situation that he had to choose.

And if Palpatine wasn’t setting this up to frame the whole Jedi and holding back then he would have obliterated Mace either in a lightsaber battle or Force battle.

Nick Gillard even said Palpatine is the master of all 7 Forms and ambidextrous and can fight LESS THAN YOU to draw his enemies in.

 

Nick Gillard the stunt coordinator and co-creator of the lightsaber forms finally said it!!!

“Palpatine would’ve creamed Mace!”
~Nick Gillard


“It took a really long time for Nick to figure out Sidious’ fighting style, and he has a style that’s constantly changing. His style is one in which you’ll NEVER GET THE BETTER OF HIM. It is ambiguous - he’ll fight LESS THAN YOU and draw you in; your a SUCKER IF you THINK you’re going to better him.”

~ George Lucas himself


“Sidious abilities are BEYOND anything we’ve experienced.”

~ Nick Gillard


“Sidious is a master of every weapon and EVERY style.”

~ Nick Gillard


“Sidious is BETTER than Yoda in a way because he has the extra power of the dark side. His character is so shrouded that his fighting style should be shrouded as well. The Emperor is DEADLY DANGEROUS.”

~ Nick Gillard

 

Indeed, and the fact it’s one man against the entire Jedi order means he has to be incredibly strong to be considered a very grave threat to their very existence.

 

Exactly!

But people either love SLJ so much who is great in Pulp Fiction and Unbreakable that they don’t want to see the obvious set up or they just see Sidious on his Palpatine political disguise instead of the actual sole Sith Master himself where all his “power house” apprentices fear.

Judging the power of Sidious on his Palpatine mild mannered disguise is like judging the power of Superman on his Clark Kent persona.

Both are just a disguise to hide their true power.

Thankfully I finally found those quotes from Lucas and Gillard on how they feel about Sidious.

 

that quote was never said by Lucas it was said by Nick Gillard, the same as all the other quotes.

Who appears to be another one who believes in Sidious's omnipotent power...

 

Not saying your wrong but why would Nick say his own name on that quote??

Those quotes were all laid out in the old StarWars.com before ROTS came out and just found them again on Killermovies.com and stated it was GL who said it.

So I dunno but if you have a better source that states that it was indeed Gillard then please share.

 

The source is this VERY own website.

and the quotes were not from the official site, but were compiled by Commander Thigh a user that used to post here in the 3SA days.
the quotes are from various sources, from SW insider to Hyperspace
I should know I was there in 3SA.

The quote was just written very weirdly admittedly (a lot like Lucas and his editing sometimes)
But it was definitely Gillard that said it

https://www.theforce.net/episode3/jtf/palpatine.asp
https://starwars.fandom.com/wiki/Hyperspace:_The_Official_Star_Wars_Fan_Club

 

Ok cool

Nevertheless, Gillard is not one of your typical fanboys. He actually worked with GL about the fighting abilities of the characters so if he believes that about Palpatine then there’s a significant reason on why he believe it so.

 

Another factor to my idea that Palpatine is mostly faking, is that Anakin isn't exactly known to hide his feelings. Palpatine might have an inkling of what the Jedi will do, but Anakin? Hoo boy, he reads him like a kindle book with audio. He views his every intent like a giant 3D IMAX theater screen. And he had spent a better part of the last hour implanting seeds of doubt in Anakin that the Jedi were any good. So when Anakin finally walks in, believe me he knows what he's about to do.

He's not omnipotent, he's just good at reading people and calculating what they'll do next. And if they basically give him a How To Manipulate Me, 101: Authored by Myself. guidebook like Mr. Skywalker basically did, all the better.

 

If Palpatine was omnipotent this wouldn’t have happened:



He’s a Sith Lord, not an immortal god of the Sith.

 

Neither me nor Gillard or anyone that supported Sidious was faking ever said Palpatine is a god.

It’s the Mace fans that says that…..Oh if Palpatine is more powerful than the mighty Mace the bestest Jedi Eva!! then he must be a god!!! Oh if he can trick Mace the smartest Jedi ever ….then Palpatine must be a god!! Lol cmon now.

You don’t have to be a god in the first place to Set This Up. He has been manipulating more complicated schemes than this. Coming back from the dead can be more God Like compared to setting up the Mighty Mace LOL. But of course, if someone can get the better of Mighty Mace…then that means he has to be a god.

Yes even Gillard said Sidious and Yoda are more powerful than Mace….Even the movie states it. That doesn’t mean they are gods. More powerful yes but not Gods.

OP Tier:
The Skywalker Line when they reach their potential

Top Tier:
Sidious, Rey Palpatine at the end of TROS and Yoda

2nd Tier:
Vader ROTS, Obi-Wan end of ROTS, Dooku, Kylo Ren, Luke ST

3rd Tier:
Obi-Wan beginning of ROTS, Mace, Maul, Rey beginning of TROS, Vader CT and Luke ROTJ

 

With all his schemes and planning and conniving, Palpatine still ends up destroyed, either ROTJ ending or TROS. So what is the point? Weave a labyrinth of lies and intrigues and still ends up as dead as his death stars.

 

It proves that even Palpatine can't see everything or take absolutely everything into account...or he would have sensed Luke's presence on the Endor mission.

 

Yes that is true. But that applies to everyone also.

Why do anyone do what they do in life when everyone ends up destroyed like all dying stars??

Why did Anakin try to save Padme when eventually she will die at the end…either from his hands or old age??

Why the Jedi bother saving everyone when everyone dies anyways??

Everyone does what they do in life for many reasons even though in a Macro sense none of it matters but they still do it.

Palpatine wants to be Emperor in his lifetime and he accomplished it…that was his point. He even came back for a second lifetime just to prove his point again.

 

Those are comparable, I was focusing on Palpatine’s schemes, The Jedi try to help others, their impetus is not riddled with intrigues and lies woven like webs; they may believe some lies like “once you start down the dark path forever will or dominate your destiny,” but they don’t invent lies.

 

That’s not a lie. Even someone who was redeemed from the dark side still had their destiny dominated by it

 

Its a bad dogma, and dominated means:

have a commanding influence on; exercise control over.

Vader doesn’t continue to be dominated, he becomes a Force Ghost.

 

After he’s already dead. His destiny was to be a Sith Lord for 25 years.

 

Revan didn’t, he got married and had a child. He also exposed the Shadow Emperor. He saved the galaxy twice after being a Sith Lord.

 

Being omnipotent does not mean that he cannot be destroyed. That's why Anakin was born and why the spirits of the deceased Jedi help Rey. Her actions were an extension of this...



Only this time, Rey had an advantage.

The point is...

 

Well I never said Palpatine was omnipotent, but it means “all powerful,” and Palpatine never claims he is all powerful, he even says, “Darth Vader will become more powerful than either of us!” To Yoda in the Office.

As for bigger fish, Rey wasn’t a bigger fish, Palyps just forgot to turn lightning fingers; proving he really isn’t omniscient either.

 

Bragging rights isn't even an issue. Palpatine doesn't have to say that he is all powerful. What he does say is the dark side is stronger than the light and he has to sell it to Dooku, Rey, Ben and the Skywalkers. He has to twist their minds.

Rey was stronger than he realized and she had help this time, where Mace didn't.