Who was more dangerous and evil: the ancient Sith like Exar Kun, or Palpatine?

And Exar Kun didn't??? Hmm...kills defenseless Republic Supreme Chancellor in cold blood...I think that qualifies as killing an innocent being. Knowingly sends Crado to his death...that qualifies as killing your own men.

I find it hard to judge that Exar Kun is any less evil or dangerous than Palpatine in that sense...

Hmm, BTW...have to modify some of Exar's quotes:

1. Yes...you are old. Old and dead.

2. The Republic is not even part of the plan.

Other gems from Exar:

1. The Sith Empire will rise again, and we are the spark.

2. A pity...looks like I'll be chopping wood today! (in his brief battle with Neti Jedi Ood Bnar).

3. My spirit will live forever!

 

GAJ:"Yes, it was a taunt. Surely you understood the point of that scene?"

Actually, I took it for its literal meaning. Notice how angry Palps gets after Luke doesn't die then?

"You're wrong, period."



Quentin: "Notice how Dooku, a less powerful Sith, made Anakin unconscious with only one zap of force lightning."

Isn't he simply thrown into a rock wall?

 

Palpatine. He would mop the floor with any of these lesser Sith Lords.

As Josh Griffen once said: "You have no idea."

All the more reason to dislike the Dark Empire series.

I just like to think it never happened.

 

The Emperor is even more badass when he returns, so I don't see the problem. Anakin DID kill him on the Death Star, fufilling the prophecy, Palpatine just has an annoying happen of not STAYING dead.

Example, an unknown person killed Marka Ragnos, then Jaden Kore "kills" his spectral form in Jedi academy. Who killed Ragnos then? They both did.

 

"Then why, praytell, do we not see Luke's bones as we see Vader's?"

*shrug* Why don't we see Anakin's in AOTC? Why do we even see Vader's bones at all in ROTJ?

And more so, why are you getting so worked up about something so trivial?

 

Example, an unknown person killed Marka Ragnos, then Jaden Kore "kills" his spectral form in Jedi academy. Who killed Ragnos then? They both did.

But is Ragnos really dead dead, like Kun and Nadd? I thought he said he'd be back.

 

Jaden kills Tavion, not Ragnos. Ragnos just happens to have taken over.

 

Isn't he simply thrown into a rock wall?

He's out of it for some time - nearly all of Obi-Wan's duel with Dooku.

 

Yeah, so wasn't he propelled into the wall by the lightning, causing a sharp blow to the back of his head, causing him to lose conciousness?

 

"Then why, praytell, do we not see Luke's bones as we see Vader's?"

If you call these bones you should not become a doctor.



Bah the image doesn't show anything. Just follow this link.

 

Palpatine is definitely more powerful. Look at everything he accomplished with one apprentice that other Sith Lords working in larger groups could not. Plus, he is the only Sith Lord to successfully return from the dead. Others have tried (Ragnos, Kun, Sadow, and Nadd)and while they have returned in spirit form and in some cases, taken over the bodies of succeptible Jedi, they never had complete control as Palpatine did (although you could argue that if they had had access to cloning technology, they would have).

 

Ok.....why do we even see Vader's "bones" anyway?

 

Ok.....why do we even see Vader's "bones" anyway?

Because metal conducts electricity much better than human dust n' bones?

 

Better conductivity of metal (even if Vader's armor has those properties) doesn't make it and human skin transparent, though.

 

There is an old parable about this.

"The Bandit seeking to slay you with his sword is less dangerous then the Beuracrat seeking to slay you with a thousand paper cuts" or something like that.

When you look at

1) What they actually accomplished conquest wise and how widespread it was
2)How effective they were at eliminating the Jedi and damaging the Republic;
3)THeir Mastery of the Dark Side of the Force

Based on the above 3 points, then we come up with

The Emperor/Darth Vader. Certainly the most accomplished as far as #1 and #2 went. However, unless compared to the others on the list, I would not say thier abillities in #3 was all that accomplished.

Darth Revan/Darth Malak. Revan and Malak had a force unlike anything seen for it's time. They were able to corrupt a powerfull and effective Republic Military that had sacrificed so much to save the REpublic from the Mandalore Warriors. They certainly had a high #1. And perhaps they exceeded in #2, as they were able to corrupt "thousands of Jedi Knights" to swear allegiance to the Dark Side of the Force. While I have not finished Knights of the Old Republic 2 yet and I am sure there are more answers to be answered in that, I would say they obviously high marks on #1 and #2. However, it is clear that their control and mastery of the Force was not as accomplished aside from what they needed to run their military conquests and to fight. It seems to me, that they took the banner of the Sith more as something to rally their army around and behind. IT is clear the effort they ordered unleashed on Korriban was designed to teach them these ancient Sith Secrets.

Exar Kun/Ulic Qel Drohma. IT does not seem like their war was as widespread as either of the above's were, in that only a few area's of space were selected. So I would not give them high marks on #1. While they did eliminate a lot of powerfull Jedi Masters, they never had thousands upon thousands of Jedi fall in battle or change sides or be eliminated like the above forces have. However, they clearly along with Aleema possessed power and mastery of the Dark Side of the Force unlike either of the above had.

 

Where is this idea that Kun was THE most powerful Sith that ever lived? He was nothing more than a corrupted Jedi (whom Chosen One not withstanding are historically incompetant as darkside users) with a few powerful Sith trinkets. Sure, he blows a huge lizard apart with his nifty amulet. Wow, amazing. And he corrupts a bunch of Jedi... by breaking a Sith Holocron and infecting their spirits. Gee, THAT took a lot of work.

As for what else Palps can do, well, I won't go there.

Palpatine was both able to corrupt and rule a galaxy with no darkside "super weapons" save his ability to switch bodies.

Oh yeah, he also sort of blew up a fleet with Force Storms.

 

Simply with the evidence at hand Exar Kun fought against amuch more powerful Jedi order. One that was free of the restrictions that the code put upon them with nomi sunrider's restrictions i.e such as emotional ties so they are much more akin to Jacen in the NJO then the PT era Jedi thus making the Jedi order a stronger one. You just have to look at TOTJ to see that they were in better shape back then and they seemed to have much more varied as well as more powerful abilities. (Although admittedly this is before EP.III so i admit that its fluid as its a fictional environment so we dont have all evidence)

Plus i would imagine that Baas would have easily given Yoda a run for his money if not beat him if they fought. As i only ever remember it being stated that yoda was the most powerful jedi of his time rather then the most powerful ever.

 

Exar Kun is my favorite SW character so i will say


Exar Kun

 

IT did seem that Exar Kun, Ulic Qel Drohma, Aleema and their forces did indeed possess tremendous mastery of the Force, when you look at what by "using the force" alone were able to accmplish as far as how they "used the force". But, their overall military forces were never enough. THey never "really" threatened the Republic. Sure they made a name for themselves, but they hardly rained in the destruction like Emperor/Vader or Revan/Malak put upon the galaxy.

I think on a individual level, Exar-Kun and Qel Drohma probably exceeded Emperor/Vader on Mastery of the Force and their skill with the Lightsaber. Revan and Malak may have rivaled them, but I don't think Revan and Malak had ever really tapped the Dark Side of the Force like the other two did. They certainly had the capacity to do so, and probably saw that if they enslaved the Galaxy to their will, it would increase their power many fold. But their forte was military prowess and the power of the StarForge.

NOw, if Revan and Malak had been able to make some sort of contact with the Cloning technology, they would have been invinceable. Sure, others may be able to beat them with a lightsabre, but how are you going to get past them or even threaten them in that StarForge's system?

 

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Simply with the evidence at hand Exar Kun fought against amuch more powerful Jedi order. One that was free of the restrictions that the code put upon them with nomi sunrider's restrictions i.e such as emotional ties so they are much more akin to Jacen in the NJO then the PT era Jedi thus making the Jedi order a stronger one. You just have to look at TOTJ to see that they were in better shape back then and they seemed to have much more varied as well as more powerful abilities. (Although admittedly this is before EP.III so i admit that its fluid as its a fictional environment so we dont have all evidence)[hr][/blockquote][/b]
Oh, there's ample evidence to support that conclusion.

At the time the Sith War erupted, the Jedi order had suffered scarcely a single debilitating, numbers-depleting event since the time of the Great Hyperspace War; the roughly thousand-some-odd years of relative peace and prosperity alluded to in the "opening scroll" of issue #1 of the original Tom Veitch mini-series. Apart from a few, unrelated events (the Hyabb-Twith Campaigns, the Coruscant droid revolt), the Jedi numbers had swollen precipitously. Swollen likely to the point where a fissioning, sundering rift was all but inevitable, with too many Jedi around, and no enemies to fight against.

And then -- according to the two [i]Knights of the Old Republic[/i] games -- several new "fillips" got added to the Jedi Code during the intervening years between the end of the Exar Kun war and the start of the Darth Malak conflict. No longer were Jedi marriages/procreation greatly tolerated, were a non-connubial member brought into the order; although there's direct evidence that the order still approved of "late age" inductees even past Nomi Sunrider's day (Bastila in the first game, Guun Han Saresh's story in the second).

We're now looking at the order having stood at the strength of tens of thousands as of the Deneba convocation at Mount Meru, down to scarcely one hundred as KOTOR II begins. Quite the sapping. Another point: for all of Bastila's vaunted Battle Meditional abilities, one almost has to believe that the *lack* of Jedi in the universe a few years later somehow made it *easier* for those knights to pick up on the skill...unlike the Sith, who prospered with an entire order numbering a mere two. Dunno.

But unlike the post-Ruusan Sith, the Jedi Order *decreased* in strength, concomitant to their numerical decline, supporting the thesis that Exar Kun confronted a cloister both commensurately far more *progressive* in attitude and social relevance, anchored in the mores of the common galactic populace. Further, one which was also the later order's clear superior in military affairs, once the four-and-a-half decades of attrition took its toll.

 

I agree alot with what you have to say, Leeto.

I would imagine the refinement of the Jedi between TALES OF THE JEDI's opening sequence, thru the KNIGHTS OF THE OLD REPUBLIC video games, and on to the movies may not have had as much to do with what the Jedi wanted but rather was what the REpublic forced them to take.

In a massive beureacracy like the Galactic Republic, there almost certainly would have been countless hearings, in the open, broadcast on the open news, about what happened, how could this have happened.

After the Exar Kun/Qel Drohma affair, these hearings would have required a lot be revealed. I imagine that entire galaxy would be alarmed to hear how there was no oversight on what a Jedi wanted to do. Sylvar almost certainly would have made sure the Senate knew how from the opening pages that Exar Kun arrived in the series, that he was already treading with the Dark Side, how Master Arca Jeth and others knew he was heading down a dark path and did nothing to stop him.

I imagine there woudl be some sort of "Jedi Oversight" act passed by the Republic that required the Jedi to take greater steps to protect the galaxy from their own.

Lets be fair: from the Tales of the Jedi to the end of KOTOR2, we are talking about nearly a half century of war, where billions were killed. While the only real massive attack Exar Kun and Qel Drohma staged where the destruction of Ossus, the fact is the Republic Senate would have been very embarrased by the incident during Qel-Drohma's trial, where Exar Kun and Mandalore strove right in, paralyzed the entire assembly, killed the Supreme Chancellor and a powerfull Jedi Master and probably did so right on C-Span.

Then the Mandalore War's. THe Republic Senate could not have been happy that so many died at the hands of the Mandalore Warriors and the Jedi wanted to do nothing.

And then in KOTOR, it is clear that Taris was not the only planet destroyed the way it was. Telos, Dantoonine, and other worlds all faced massive losses at the hands of Darth Revan and Darth Malak.

TO the poin, that after that, the REpublic would have probalby forced the draconian new rules upon the Jedi.