Who was stronger in RotJ, Vader or Luke?

Who was stronger during the duel between Vader and Luke?

I voted for Vader because Vader's training was far superior to Luke's. Vader represented 80% of Palpatine's power during the events of RotJ and there is just no way Luke could be that strong. Luke did perform better during their duel, but Vader gained strength from his hate and anger. How could he call upon those emotions against Luke? The answer was he couldn't, leading to be overwhelmed when Luke used the dark side. But I still stand by my opinon that Vader was stronger during RotJ. But that's just my take, what's yours?

 

Vader was a circus of emotions and was hesitant about harming his son again, which hampered his fighting abilities. Either that, or Luke just trained very hard in the time between TESB and ROTJ. Either way, Luke ran circles around Vader in ROTJ, that much is certain.

 

I'm not sure so I clicked 'Not sure'.

 

Vader has a great moment(Lightsaber throw) and great lines(If you will not turn, perhaps she will...) but basically Luke kicked his ass. Luke = underrated.

 

Luke Skywalker, his raw potential was impressive

 

Luke.

He beat Vader. That settles it for me.

But besides that, why shouldn't we think that Luke was equal to or even surpassing Vader in terms of raw power by RotJ? He is Anakin's son, and force potential doesn't diminish over the generations. He would have inherited his father's ability. Granted he may have had less training, but training isn't everything, and Luke was obviously some sort of Jedi savant. His mastery of the force in RotJ is astounding considering he's only had a few short years to train and was forced to learn much on his own.

 

Luke Skywalker.

 

Its a proven fact that Luke only beat Vader because Vader's emotions had him torn. Vader was fighting more with himself then he was with Luke. The Vader/Luke duel has so many outside factors two it that you really can't use this duel as a basis for who is stronger.

The truth is, Luke has no where near the experience nor the training and mastery over force that Vader does. Before RotJ, Luke had only fought one other person lightsaber to lightsaber and that was Vader!(Who played with Luke like a toy in ESB)Who even then wasn't trying to kill him.

Don't get me wrong, Luke's force capabilities are very impressive. I just think at the time of RotJ, Luke is not on Vader's level in a TRUE battle to the death.

 

I'd say they were about equal, but when it comes to mental strength/willpower, my vote goes to Luke.

 

Luke kicked Vader's butt when he gave into his anger, but showed more heroic strength than Anankin ever did by choosing not to kill him or the Emperor. This goodness melted Vader's heart till it grew three sized to big so he threw Empy down the hole and saved Christmas. And the Vader carved the roast ewok.

(sorry, Firday does this to me sometimes)

 

it's alright Jamie... in my eyes a Wookie can do no wrong.

 

Not to derail the topic, but...a proven fact? According to whom? What is on screen is really quite straightforward. Luke kicked Vader down the stairs then managed to evade him, and, when the chips were down, drove Vader back with numerous attacks and didn't give Vader a chance to breathe, let alone to fight back. For example, when Vader is backing onto the catwalk in front of the turbolift Vader attempts to feint and move around Luke, but Luke cuts him off. Twice. Then knocks him down and delimbs him. Luke's dominance of the combat is apparent from their first saberlock in RotJ and is indicative of how much he as grown as a man and as a Jedi. It is all Campbellian, to be sure, but that does not diminish the fact that Luke led that fight from beginning to end.

Anakin/Vader was powerful, but never reached his full potential. By RotJ we see Luke exhibit strengths and abilities unseen since the Old Republic. He was well on his way to fulfilling his potential...

 

Vader never wanted to kill Luke (except over the Death Star, but he didn't know it was his offspring). Man, what a child abuser in Ep4 he was!

 

Vader may not have wanted to kill Luke in RotJ, but he wasn't playing paddy cake with him either. Remember the only film where Vader did want to kill Luke was ANH. In ESB he wants to make him his apprentice, just like in RotJ. That doesn't stop him from hacking off one of Luke's limbs, nor do I think it would have stopped him from hacking off another limb to make his point in RotJ. Vader's "turn" back to the light does not come until after Luke spares his life. During the duel Vader was playing for keeps and he lost.

 

QFT

If it's a proven fact show the proof.

Luke beat Vader fairly, the RotJ novel supports that.

Edit: What I'm referring to is this

"He rushed to his father with a frenzy he'd never known.
Nor had Vader. The gladiators battled fiercely, sparks
flying from the clash of their radiant weapons, but it was
soon evident that the advantage was all Luke's. And he was
pressing it. They locked swords, body to body. When Luke
pushed Vader back to break the clinch, the Dark Lord hit his
head on an over-hanging beam in the cramped space. He
stumbled backward even farther, out of the low-hanging area.
Luke pursued him relentlessly.

Blow upon blow, Luke forced Vader to retreat - back, onto
the bridge that crossed the vast, seemingly bottomless shaft
to the power core. Each stroke of Luke's saber pummeled
Vader, like accusations, like screams, like shards of hate.

The Dark Lord was driven to his knees. He raised his blade
to block yet another onslaught - and Luke slashed Vader's
right hand off at the wrist."

 

Didn't Luke have the moral high ground?

 

Overall? Yes. In the moment when he used the Dark Side to attack Vader? Debatable.(That is if you consider it anger as I do then no, however if you view it as righteous indignation then yes.)

 

Luke absolutely destroyed Vader.

Vader only had the upper hand because Luke was hesitant, he didn't want to fight his father -- He knew the Emperor was manipulating Vader. Luke only began to believe he was fighting for something when Vader spoke of turning Leia to the Dark Side. Vader was slow, inactive and over-run. Eventually, his lack of mobility saw him fall before Luke.

No contest, Luke pwned Vader!

 

Ditto.

 

Who said anything about Vader beating Luke in that duel? Myself and everyone knows that Luke won the fight. The thread is about who was stonger at the time, not who won. We all know in Star Wars, the most powerful doesn't always win. There is no exception in RotJ.

Vader being more powerful than Luke in RotJ is a proven fact to anyone who has watched the saga. Luke has no where near the experience, training, or mastery over the force that Vader has in RotJ. Before RotJ, Luke had only fought one person lightsaber to lightsaber and that was Vader. Regardless of potential, Luke is not on Vader's level at this point.

Luke led the fight from beggining to end??? Is that why he ran and hid after Vader did the saber throw and knocked him off the platform?

The truth is neither Vader nor Luke wanted to fight each other. That is until Vader threatened to turn Leia. At this point all of Lukes love for his father was put on hold and he attacked to kill.

If two people are fighting and one doesn't wanna hurt the other and the other is out to kill his opponent, the one who wants to kill will win 99.9% of the time against the opponent who doesn't want to fight. And thats exactly what happen here.

 

I don't know if you were joking or did this on purpose but you just made me relize the symbology of the 'high ground' line in Revenge of the Sith.

 

I agree with DarthJuggalo. The proof of Vader's strength is in the Prequel Triliogy. Anakin Skywalker trained for 14 years in the Jedi arts and still had not reached his potential. May fans argue that Luke had this amazing training by Obiwan Kenobi and Yoda. Well guess what, Darth Vader was once trained by both Obiwan Kenobi and Yoda for far longer periods. He was apprenticed to Palpatine, the most powerful Force user in the saga for over twenty years. Luke has no way to compensate for that. I saw the duel as Darth Vader being the most powerful in RotJ, but Vader lost because he was fighting Anakin Skywalker and Luke Skywalker at the same time. Come on people, Darth Vader was powerful but you can't take down Anakin and Luke in a two on one fight!

 

You can't, but Vader was simply overwhelmed by Luke. The fact that Luke was trained for less time doesn't necessarily mean that he'll be weaker than Anakin because, Luke's a far quicker study, was mostly trained in the martial aspects of the Jedi, and was more of a prodigy than Anakin ever was, and has all of that combined with Anakin's potential.

Vader circa Jedi also wasn't the man he could have become due to his injuries. Luke on the other hand was (mostly) whole and had the afformentioned advantages.

 

Luke bested Vader. Nuf said.

 

Luke a far quicker study than Anakin was???? Thats arguable to say the least. Throughout the OT Luke was just as reckless and egotistical as Anakin was. They were so similar it was scary, hence the reason Yoda was hesitant to train Luke just like he was with Anakin. One of the major unknowns of the OT was whether or not Luke would turn like Anakin did. Luke made the right choices when it counted.


As far as Luke being mostly trained in the martial aspects of the Jedi; quite the opposite really. When did you ever see Luke train with a lightsaber or spar with anyone for that matter. Throughout the OT, Luke used his lightsaber 8 times. Twice against Vader, once against Obi Wan's training droid, once against a Wampa, once against an AT-AT, once in the cave on Dagobah, once when fighting Jabba's henchmen at the Sarlaac pit, and once on Endor against the scout troopers on speeder bikes. On top of which he only had a couple years of total training time.


Compare that to Vader's 13 years of REAL Jedi training at the temple and his 20+ years of Sith training under arugably the greatest and most powerful Sithlord of all time; logic will tell you that Luke doesn't compare to Vader. Even if Luke has the same potential that Anakin had (which again is arguable, but for a whole seperate thread), I just don't see how he could be on Vader's level in power regardless of potential.

Edit: Thanks Bring_My_Shuttle, I knew I forgot one.