"Who's the more foolish...the fool or the fool who follows him?

I was just wondering did they ever figure this out? Is Han more foolish? Was Ben admitting he was a fool? Was Ben using the force on them to get them to do something? I never really understood exactly what Ben was talking about.

 

hmm...this is as perplexing as "There is no spoon"

maybe it's just ramblings on an oldman

 

I never understood the big hype about "there is no spoon", I guess I was not looking too much into that line.

As for Ben it probably was a rhetorical question, well in fact it was. Anyways he was calling himself a fool, as only a fool would walk around on the Death Star, searching for the tractor beam controls and even anticipating a fight with Vader. However, he knew that everyone else had the option of following Kenobi off of the Falcon, thus making them even more foolish than Ben. Only someone more foolish will follow the initial fool. That is what I make of it anyways.

 

I always assumed he was talking about Anakin and how he fell to the dark side and followed the emperor... especially since vader had sensed him at that time. Like a mind battle using the force.

 

It was just a bit of verbal sparring on Ben's part. Han was complaining about Ben's plan, which was sure to backfire because the tractor beam was still in effect. Ben said, "Leave that to me." Han called him a fool, so Ben threw it back at him since he knew Han had no choice but to follow his lead.

Nothing more.

L8r

 

Han called him a fool, so Ben threw it back at him since he knew Han had no choice but to follow his lead.

but if you remember, Han didn't follow ben. He and Luke went to look for the princess. Remember, Ben was alone when he shut off the tracktor beam. If you don't believe me, watch the movie again.

 

Ben also said "The Force can have a strong influence on the weak-minded. You will find it a powerful ally."

That sounds like he would use the force on Han and was indeed telling Luke to Fool weaker minded people. Did Ben think Luke and Han were "weak minded" what does he consider weak?

Or was he talking about how Clones can be fooled? He only ever uses it on stormtroopers, so maybe he means Clones.

Either way, Ben says some weird stuff.

 

Trust me anyone who is at theforce.net knows that Ben was alone when he turned off the Death Star's tractor beam. However when Ben said that line Han had no choice but, to follow his lead. They only went to rescue the princess after Ben had left for the tractor beam.

 

but if you remember, Han didn't follow ben. He and Luke went to look for the princess. Remember, Ben was alone when he shut off the tracktor beam. If you don't believe me, watch the movie again.

Uh, duh! I've seen the movies. But Han was still doing what Ben wanted him to do, until Luke convinced Han to go rescue the Princess. Until that point, Han was following Ben's lead.

Han's only other option than following Ben at that point would be to try to blast his way out, but that surely would have gotten them all killed. Han played along 'cause he had no other choice.

L8r

 

Holy jeez people!

Errant_Venture answered the question. It's the only answer. Sometimes that's how it works. Speculation is not necessary.

 

That Han Solo sure does have a poddy mouth don't he?

"Damn fool, I knew you were gonna say that."

"Then I'll see you in Hell. Heyahh!"

 

Errant_Venture answered the question. It's the only answer. Sometimes that's how it works. Speculation is not necessary.

It's not the only answer. Some things depend on your "point of view", as Ben has said many time. And that's Ben's point, the person you consider the fool depends on your point of view.

 

Your right, there are differnt point of views, especially with a topic like this, its more philosophy than anything els. I think personally, Ben knows we all are fools the question is who is the more foolish one, the one with a plan or the one who blindly follows. Philosophy can be viewed many different ways.

 

I'd go with the follower.

 

"It's not the only answer. Some things depend on your "point of view", as Ben has said many time. "

Using a fictional character's rationalization of a lie does not help your case.

"the question is who is the more foolish one, the one with a plan or the one who blindly follows."

Obviously the fool who follows blindly is more foolish. Easy enough to figure out. Solo calls him a fool, so knowing Solo is going go follow him, Ben insults him right back. Would it have been easier if Ben stuck his tongue out?

"Philosophy can be viewed many different ways."

Yes, it's called mental masturbation and amounts to just about the same thing, which is nothing of importance.

 

it sounds like my english teacher

"I don't care what you say about this text, as long as you can back it up."

 

Using a fictional character's rationalization of a lie does not help your case.

Yes it does because the character is part of the Universe we're discussing. And furthermore, Ben's rationale is at the very center of the argument. If we're trying to determine what Ben means in his words, of course we have to examine his beliefs and methods of communicating them.

 

Yep

 

definitly the fool that follows. fools fool foolishly alone but if your a fool that foolishly follows you're definitly the bigger fool because you can't even foolishly follow your own tom-foolery. and the fool that follows the fool is only fooling themselves.

 

Since we're waxing philosophical...

They're both fools, but Ben asks, "who's more foolish?". Does this mean that one, who is already a fool, can be more like something than they already are? No! Only the perception that a fool is more foolish, but they're both still fools. So you see, in the end, it doesn't matter if one is more like a fool than the other. The question is, "Is it the fool that follows him?". The answer is "No", he's already a fool! Have you learned nothing? A fool knows that following a fool does not make him more foolish, because had he stayed home, he'd still be a fool. Only slightly more annoyning and dangerous, is what is a fool that does not follow a fool? Is he less of a fool? No, but he is smarter because he knows to never get in a land war in Asia.

 

"No, but he is smarter because he knows to never get in a land war in Asia. "

Inconcievable!!!

 

My head hurts.



L8r

 

Inconcievable!!!

Great flick!

 

Are we still arguing about this?

 

i pity the fool that follows the fool...