PT Why did Qui-Gon bring Anakin to Naboo?

BBYSITTER

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/0_BBY


BABELSITTER

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tower_of_Babel

 

Ezra Brisdger was 14 when he was taken on as a Padawan and thrust into war....

Kanan was a 13 year old Padawan when he was fighting in the Clone Wars...

Seeing how Qui Gon was planning on taking Anakin as his Padawan, 10 year olds were old enough to Padawans as well, so surely they were thrust into dangerous situations.

Once again, as I and others said in this thread. Qui Gon was planning on taking Anakin as a Padawan no matter what the Council said. That is what is said in TPM.

Qui Gon, while he admits he can't openly train Anakin, plans on circumventing the rules in order to start teaching him anyway, which is why he tells Anakin to stay close and pay attention. This is why he takes him along.

When they leave, Qui Gon has no idea what the Queens plans are. He doesn't know she plans on open war. Still these are things Anakin would be facing anyway had Obi Wan not have been Qui GOn's apprentice. If not for Obi Wan already being Qui Gon's apprentice, Qui Gon would have taken Anakin as his Padawan right than and there, and would have surely gone with Qui Gon anyway.

It just seems so... weird for some to really be harping on this....

 

He wants to leave yes, that is go away and not come back one hour later.
Ex if a person lives in a small town and wants to leave that town.
This does not have to mean that this person has never physically been outside the town.

So it is entirely possible that Luke has flown outside of the planet Tatooine, as part of training or joyrides.
However this does not mean he left home/Tatooine as he had to fly back there again as he has no place else to go.
He wants to go to the Academy, this is leaving the planet and going someplace else and start his career as a space officer.

So there is no evidence in the film that Luke has never been in space before.

Same with Rey in TFA, she is a pilot per her own words.
So she knows how to fly ships.
She hasn't left Jakku because she is waiting for someone.
But it is very possible or even likely that she has flown ships that have been outside the atmosphere of the planet.

Where IN the film is it said that he has flown Skyhoppers? Or that he has ONLY flown Skyhoppers?
Luke mentions a T-16 but what that is, is not explained.
Also, on the DS, he flies along the surface and in a trench.
So his experience in flying in canyons is very useful.

[/QUOTE]

Obi-Wan calls Luke's father the best star-pilot in the galaxy and says that Luke has become quite a good pilot himself. So he is comparing Luke to his father, who was a STAR-pilot.
Biggs vouches for Luke and says he is a good pilot.
Quick things but they do the job of setting up that Luke actually has some idea about what he is doing and isn't pushing buttons randomly.
Which is what Anakin does.

While both have a fair amount of stuff that you need to accept, to me, TPM have far more stuff that you just have to swallow in order for the story to work.
And as I've said, it is all a matter of degree. Too much and much suspension of disbelief is shattered.
Cave-men flying in 1000 year old Harrier Jets, that shattered it for ex.

@Qui-Riv-Brid

Well people have been arguing that what Qui-Gon did was standard Jedi MO.
The comparison have been made to cabin boys or squires.
So Jedi taking young kids into battle is not unusual.

My question then becomes, if this is so, why didn't Mace brings some kids to Geonosis?
He took all that the jedi he had on Coruscant at the time.
Did any of them have a padawan around age 8-10?
It would be quite possible.
If so, why didn't those Masters bring their padawans?

If it was deemed too dangerous, risky and that there was a large hostile force on Geonosis.
That also applies to Naboo in TPM.
And a 8-10 year old that have been a Jedi his/her whole life would probably be more able to defend themselves or fight than untrained Anakin.

To sum up, Anakin's presence on Naboo in TPM is contrived to me. It took me out of the film. That plus the way he flies off and blows up the TF ship.
It was too obviously a "plot demands it".
And the film didn't do a good enough job of justifying it. It happened because the plot needed it to happen.

Bye.
Old Stoneface

 

I don't think Luke has left Tatooine before ANH. "Flying through hyperspace ain't like dusting crops, boy." Han Solo's attitude here implies that it would be unlikely for a local hobbyist pilot like Luke to be familiar with interstellar travel and navigation.

About Jedi taking padawans into battle, that's exactly what they do throughout the Clone Wars TV series, although that was partly out of necessity, I think. The situations on Geonosis and Naboo aren't exactly comparable, anyway. Geonosis is a full blown war zone. Naboo is an occupied planet. Sure, of course it's still fairly dangerous, but then being a Jedi is dangerous. Anakin knew that when he chose to leave home and go with Qui Gon Jinn.

 

There were no Padawans under the age of at least twelve on Geonosis. The youngest were between twelve and fourteen. Most Padawans are roughly that age when they are taken into the field. Very rare are they younger than that. The Younglings that we saw Yoda training and those that Anakin kill, were too young to go into the field, much less fight. Anakin wasn't receiving any training, but he wasn't put into harms way by Qui-gon. He did that on his own. As to his flying, flying a fighter isn't much different from racing a pod, a speeder or skyhopper. The controls aren't too different and he can do as well as he does because like all other Jedi, he can see things before they happen. Hence he can dodge most blaster fire.

 

As gone over before it is contrived.

Everything in Star Wars is "contrived". So the real question is why does this contrivance bother you in particular?

As I said I don't recall ever thinking about it once anymore than basically everything else in Star Wars. I am trying to think of something in TFA that took me out of the film on first viewing and I don't recall anything off-hand. I was just absorbing what was going on. The Finn-Ren duel might have given me some pause but I don't recall if that was on first sight or later and even then I can't say it took me out. It's a rare thing that can take me "out of the film" in that sense.

Plot demanded Luke destroy the Death Star and that was hardly "explained".

Ultimately it was done through the Force by both of them. The Force seems to be something that gets ignored a lot in Star Wars when it clearly binds the galaxy of characters and events together.

Yet that is nothing compared to so many other things in the movies like TESB which is full of them. Why after years does Obi-Wan finally send Luke to Yoda? Vader has been looking for Luke for years and JUST THEN the Emperor says "Oh I know you're looking." Why does the hyperdrive not work throughout the movie until JUST THEN. Why does the impatient Vader suddenly become patient? What is going on with Vader anyway? He's all over the place in his actions. Why don't the Jedi reveal Vader to be Anakin to Luke?

These are questions that really don't make any much "logical" sense in these kinds of movies. Why do all these things happen at the same time? The droids end up with Luke instead of being bought somewhere else. Why didn't the droids just get picked up b the Empire and no one is the wiser and the whole movie doesn't happen? Why does Luke think there is still good in Vader? This major revelation happens BETWEEN movies as does Vader finding out about Luke.If Vader wants Luke so much then hang out on Tatooine because they are going to come to rescue Han.

If something as very minor and easily dismissed as Qui-Gon taking Anakin to Naboo is that problematic then what about actual major developments?

 

He does directly say that he wants Anakin to, as an alternative to outright training, "watch me and be mindful." He did think he was just going to try to protect the queen, who would either try to negotiate or not directly fight herself. Then he does take him directly to a battle zone ... maybe he did want him to see and learn from the conflict and was really confident that Anakin wouldn't get hurt as long as he wasn't reckless.

 

Qui Gon doesn't take Anakin to Naboo for any reason at all other than the fact that he is responsible for him.

The miracle-boy pilot is then placed in the cockpit of a Naboo fighter, for "safety". As if it wouldn't be a temptation to him.

It is contrived.

Citing Obi-Wan taking Luke to Alderann as equally contrived is rather ignorant.

Qui Gon is merely encumbered with Anakin, thanks to Yoda. So QGJ takes him to a war zone so that he remains under his protection.

 

Clearly, there are different standards for children in the GFFA than in wealthy countries on Earth, and particularly different standards in the Jedi world. Children train at very young ages, etc. Anakin fits this mold. He's a child, but he's not treated like a child in a developed country on Earth is treated. On top of this, he's a Chosen One.

This is a mythic story told in the mythic mode. Dropping Anakin in a galactic day care center is the opposite of that. Taking him to an epic battle, as part of his Jedi training, fits right into that mode.

Think of him as a younger version of Bilbo Baggins, full of promise but out of his depth amidst very violent events. He's there to bring the audience into a larger-than-life story.

 

I'm not discounting the different values for prospective jedi children, However, Qui Gon has only so far proposed to adopt Anakin as his padawan. Taking him to a battle zone (something we're told is not the Jedi's metier during this era) seems like a highly unusual nitiation.

Plus there's the fact that once they get to Theed, Anakin is immediately told to find a place to stay safe. It doesn't concern Qui Gon that Anakin is sitting in the cockpit of a Naboo fighter.

 

The Jedi could go into the battle, but only as protection for the Queen. There was the remote possibility that the mysterious warrior might be there. But they could not lead the mission, nor plan it.

Because it was a safe place to be until he decided that he wanted to help Qui-gon and Obi-wan, by activating the N-1 so that he could use the weapons systems against the incoming Droidekas. If Anakin hadn't told Artoo to start up the fighter, he would have never gone into space.

 

The Jedi being involved in conflict, in any capacity, is explicitly referred to as being highly irregular.

? Qui Gon didn't anticipate this from a precocious miracle child who can fearlessly pilot vehicles like no other human?

 

No, it isn't. Qui-gon says to Padme that he can protect her, but he cannot fight a war for her. Padme is the one who comes up with the plan to retake Theed, not Qui-gon and Obi-wan. Nothing in TPM says that it's irregular for the Jedi to do that. In AOTC, Mace is asked if ten thousand Jedi are enough to protect the Republic. He says that they aren't soldiers. He never says that the Jedi couldn't help against the Separatist threat. Just that there aren't enough of them.

Yep. Just as he didn't anticipate dying in battle against Maul. Anakin wasn't intending to go into space. He was intending to shoot the Droidekas. Neither Anakin, nor Qui-gon were aware that the N-1 was pre-programmed to fly into space on automatic pilot, once it was activated.

 

Utter nonsense. They are going into a war zone with a Queen about to wage war. "Protecting her" in that arena but not getting involved in a war is grand hypocrisy.

Predicting someone's behaviour and predicting your own death by someone's hand and in battle are two hopelessly different propositions.

It's gone beyond dignity now.

 

Not really. Padme's life is in danger by going back to Naboo. The Council deems that their job is to continue to protect her. That's what they're doing when they enter the hangar before Maul shows himself. Once they made it to the throne room, they would stay back while she negotiated the new treaty that ended Nute's occupation. The Jedi don't have the authority to do anything other than that. The Senate did not give them that authority. When Palpatine gained Emergency Powers, they were given leave to go to Geonosis and fight in a war.

Right and Qui-gon had no idea that Anakin was going to try and help him. Last time, he obeyed Qui-gon by running to the ship and telling Obi-wan and Ric to take off. He had assumed that he would do so again.

 

So Qui Gon forgot that Anakin saved them on Tatooine with a miraculous feat of piloting and been informed that he's the chosen one.

Anakin warning Obi-Wan and telling him to take off did save them. So how you can dismiss that as Anakin helping is bizarre.

 

He didn't forget. Anakin did that because he a) volunteered and b) they had no options. This time there was an option which was stay in the ship and don't get out until he comes back for him.

Because they're different things. Qui-gon wanted them to leave, not to come help him. Obi-wan and Ric made the choice to pick him up on their way out. Anakin had no choice in going into space. Artoo was having trouble overriding the automatic pilot. Qui-gon did not see the Droidekas coming for him and Obi-wan as he was too busy fighting Maul. Anakin acted on his own initiative, not under orders. He did not know that Anakin was going to order Artoo to activate the ship, nor would be dragged off into space.

 

So Qui Gon has to know things will happen in order to take reasonable precautions to prevent them? And you're ignoring that Anaking warning Obi Wan meant that the ship took off before Maul was able to attack it, there was no indication that Qui Gon intended to be left behind or that Anakin accepted that was the case.

Anakin was keen to help Padme on Tatooine, why would Qui Gon not be able to anticipate that Anakin might do the same while in the cockpit of a Naboo fighter.

Are you saying that Qui Gon knew that the Naboo fighter has a child lock and couldnt have anticipated that Anakin's newfound friend Artoo would stick by his side? Or that the droids still in or around the hangar might want to destroy all remaining fighters still on the ground before any other defenders took them up into battle?

 

It means that Qui-gon cannot predict what Anakin will do and won't do. Even Obi-wan cannot predict every action Anakin makes. See when he's talking to Anakin about losing Zam and he just ups and dives out of the speeder. The only way to take precaution is to disable the fighter. And he has no reason to think Anakin will turn it on, since he has no clue that Droidekas are on their way and that Maul will delay the Jedi from going into the palace.

Telling Anakin to tell them to take off, means that he wants them to leave. He realizes that Maul is there for Padme and that they need to leave. He will engage Maul to keep that from happening. What Anakin thinks is irrelevant. He just does as he is told. Obi-wan and Ric make the choice to pick him up.

Racing pods is different from firing blasters from a ship. One was a situation that he was aware of and agreed to. The other was a spontaneous decision on Anakin's part, done without consulting him and without thought of what will happen when he does so.

No, what I'm saying is that he didn't anticipate that Anakin would try to help and get dragged into the space battle because all of the fighters were on a pre-programmed automatic pilot.

 

It is still not a rational decision. I mean, would you take your nephew to Syria?

But I do believe it was the Force's will, and Jinn knew it.

 

As I've said before, this is like trying to argue against Batman taking on Robin as a sidekick using real world logic. In the context of the DC Comics fantasy universe, that's just how things are done. Robin is Batman's ward, and he follows Batman wherever he goes, under Batman's guidance and mentorship. Lucas even uses similar language when justifying his writing choice in The Phantom Menace; he describes Anakin as being Qui-Gon's "ward." Qui-Gon wants Anakin to come along and basically be his unofficial Padawan. His on-the-job training starts now.

 

I've always assumed Qui-Gon was going to quit the Jedi Order after his mission on Naboo and train Anakin himself.

 

It's like trying to explain Batman meeting Robin aged nine and that same day taking him into a warzone but then telling him the most important thing is for him to stay out of danger and not get involved. The only reason Anakin is on Naboo is because Yoda and the council rejected him.

Oh it's just the way things are done. Ok. It's a universe where the option for Qui Gon to leave Anakin safely on Coruscant, and not be involved in the war that Qui Gon is anxious about later on, even though the council won't train him, is mysteriously never even considered.

Seems strange that there is such a number of younglings left in safety at the temple while the Jedi are fighting the Separatists in ROTS. Toting them around in battle seems like the way their universe works. Not mollycoddling them.

 

First, while it has been a long while since I've read any Batman comics, from what I recall, Batman trained Robin for a bit before taking him out to fight crime. He didn't just hand him a costume and took him out to fight the Joker.
And, again from what I remember, Dick Grayson was a bit older than nine year old Anakin when he became Robin. 12-13 years old I think.
Third, one story that I do remember is when Tim Drake was introduced and he just put in the Robin costume and tried to fight Two-Face and that did not go well. He might have been killed had Alfred not saved him. And after the death of Jason Todd, Batman was quite reluctant to take on another Robin, given what happened.

About Anakin, had Qui-Gon said he expected Anakin to do his part in the battle or something like that, then it would be reckless and irresponsible but taking Anakin along at least has a reason that make some sense.
But all Qui-Gon want is for Anakin to HIDE and STAY SAFE. He doesn't want him to fight, he wants him to stay out of it so that he does not die. Given that motivation, NOT leaving Anakin on Coruscant or at the Gungan hideout becomes senseless and contrived.
And had those options been talked about and dismissed, then ok at least they were considered.
But nothing.
And even if it is Jedi custom to bring kids to battle, how come none of the non-Jedi didn't comment on this?
And as I said before, how come Mace didn't bring a lot of kids to the battle on Geonosis in AotC?
If the Jedi normally do this, they he should.
The answer is that having a bunch of nine year old Jedi swinging lightsabers at droids would probably not work. Either none of them would be shown to die, which would stretch things and migth ruin the tension. Or they would be shown to die but that would make the film a lot less family friendly.

Lastly, the blockade. Qui-Gon does not know it is gone.
So as far as he knows, they will face the same thing they barley got through the last time.
And the odds are good that they are either blown to bits or captured.
And how does this "train" Anakin. A lesson how to die when your ship gets blown up?
Or a lesson in "How to get captured or shot by droids"?

The plot needs Anakin to be there, so he is. The plot also needs the blockade to be gone and it is.
The plot also needs those Naboo fighters to be there, fueled and ready and preprogrammed to fly up to the TF ship.
In short, the plot is contrived.

Bye for now.
Blackboard Monitor

 

Why would he quit? Obi-wan wasn't going to quit when he told Yoda what he was going to do.