Why did Sidious want to turn Anakin?/When did he decide it?

This is a really interesting one. The more I think about it, the less I'm sure what was really going on.

Sidious didn't really need Anakin or any other apprentice as far as rising to power is concerned. The bulk of what he did to become Emperor was more about political machination than anything else. In many ways, the fact that he was a Sith was secondary. Sure, he scared a few people into doing what he wanted because he was a Sith, but most of it was just good old-fashioned manipulation of "human" nature.

The only occasion where he appeared to need Anakin was during the duel with Mace, but it seems unlikely to me that even Sidious could plan for things to pan out exactly as they did and with perfect timing. I think on that occasion Sidious may have just got lucky and was smart and powerful enough to take full advantage of the fact. In any case, had Anakin not been being manipulated by Sidious, the Jedi may never have come to know of his true identity at that time anyway. So it's hard to say whether Anakin was more of a help or a hinderance in that case.

I'm not a big fan of the prophecy aspect of the PT. One reason is that it confuses me as to why Sidious would keep someone around whose supposed destiny is was to destroy the Sith. Wouldn't you just off him as early as possible? It could be that the Sith didn't believe in the jedi prophecy or the gold old "prophecy misread" angle could be at play. In any case, why would Sidious risk if when he didn't have to?

It seems to me that the reasons Sidious decided to turn Anakin and have him around was his consuming lust for power and control and his desire to pass on the Sith teachings, rather than anything that Anakin could do for him that he couldn't do at least as well himself. Who better to hold power over than the most powerful? What better thing to control the destiny of than destiny itself? Ultimately I think Sidious's greatest strength was his intelligence and his greatest weakness his power-hunger. In the end the latter outweighed the former.

 

I'm not a big fan of the prophecy angle either. He could have just been picked up off of Tattooine by Qui-Gon (after his mother made him promise to give him a better life) and later found out to have a extremely high midi-chlorian count. It is so high, that the Jedi consider that he is too special a case to have the normal 'too old' rules applied to him, so Qui-Gon is given him as a Padawan.

He's still kept 'special,' and the Sith (Sidious) still dies.

 

"We have no need any more witnesses. Therefore; the prosecution rests, Chancellor."

 

So, why do you have to change your opinion about the scene because Lucas says something else?

In my opinion, what Lucas or anyone else says about the movies is irrelevant. Every movie is supposed to be an artistic entity on its own, and you don't have to go and read interview/listen to commentaries... to understand it. Some things are left ambiguous and you are supposed to think for yourself, not read interviews to understand them. After all, this is fiction, not history, and nothing really happened. If the autor decides NOT to specify something on screen, it is up to you to interpret.

 

It could be that the Sith didn't believe in the jedi prophecy or the gold old "prophecy misread" angle could be at play. In any case, why would Sidious risk if when he didn't have to?

Not necessarily a mis-reading of the prophecy, but the old point of view angle. The prophecy stated the Chosen One would bring balance to the Force. From the Sith point of view, the Force was out of balance because of the Jedi.

 

Did they now?
I was never under the impression that the Sith saw the force in the same manner as the Jedi. If anything, the Sith would never want balance because balance conveys equality, and to the Sith... equality was a lie. From my understanding most Sith view the force as a tool; a means to an end, for those with the proper strength of will.

 

I agree that the Sith saw the force in a different manner than the Jedi. The way I see it, they had different takes on the same situation. When Palps said "Once more, the Sith will rule the galaxy", that implied he thought the Balance had swung to the Sith side.

 

The balance of power?
If yes... I couldn't agree more.

 

Yeah, balance as a verb not noun. It does seem a little silly that the Jedi didnt really examine all aspects of the prophecy, from every point of view, until at the end when Yoda considers it. A thousand years meditating on minor stuff, yet not so much on their own fate, heh.

 

If he hadn't croaked, I bet Yoda would still be pondering what his own species is...

 

I've always wondered what the exact, if there was any, wording of the prophecy was. Was "destroy the Sith" part of the prophecy or did the Jedi just add it to "bring balance" etc? It's kind of significant.

 

Bringing balance to the Force means restoring "harmony" to it... IMO. The Sith throw the Force out of balance by using it, like a tool, in destructive, self-serving, dark side ways that the Jedi believe go against the will of the Force.

I look at it like this: the Force probably does have a will, but it does not enforce its will on its own. Free will exists in the SW universe just like it does in our own; nothing stopped Anakin/Vader from killing younglings and joining the dark side, but that does not mean that his doing so negated the existence of the Force's will. Furthermore, the prophecy of the chosen one was created by the Jedi, based on their understanding of the Force, and maybe also on their hope that the Force "preferred" them over the Sith.

As far as destiny and fulfillment of the prophecy goes, it is logical for Anakin to have become Vader and done the bad things he did (veering far off course), yet still eventually redeem himself and ultimately fulfill his destiny according to the prophecy. The will of the Force and the Jedi's prophecy do not need to have planned for or even required those dark side events to take place along the way in order to still be viewed as real or legitimate.

 

Well said. And in this case (Mace vs. Palpatine), I have always thought that Lucas either wasn't thinking about what he was saying when they recorded the DVD commentary, or that he somehow directed a scene that ended up seeming to suggest something very different than what he intended. I tend to think it's the former (commentary recording).

 

I doubt the Jedi even know what "IT" actually said, or meant even. With it being misread and all...

 

I really don't like the prophecy. And 'misread, it could have been', or whatever, is pretty weak.

 

Me either.

At least that poor writing was consistent with the OT.
"Your father, Darth Vader could NOT have been."

 

From wookiepedia:
"The prophecy of the Chosen One was an ancient Jedi legend that foretold the coming of a being who would restore balance to the Force."

"The prophecy was one of hundreds of obscure legends maintained by the Jedi Order, though its origins and actual content remain unknown."

And this is where the Jedi screwed up:

"The prophecy was not explicit, but the Jedi assumed that the Chosen One would be a Jedi, due to the prophecy's being a Jedi prophecy."

Obviously, there was no saying in the GFFA like "When you assume, you make an ...................."

 

We need a [face_donkey]!!

 

No [face_donkey] to be found --- THIS is the best I could find, Massster Sx3

[image=http://fashionablygeek.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/vader-pinata.jpg]

 

MASter Obi-Chron!! It has been ages, my friend. Great grab on the vader-donkey.
It'd be really funny if he had a giant helmet.

 

This sums it up purrr-fectly, IMO. I enthusiatically "3rd" EECHUUTA's opinion, so convincingly seconded with the closing statement of the prosecution.

 

That's why they call it the dark side.

 

So... did he run-out of it, or not?

 

Laws of diminishing returns and suitable aternatives . . . Mace turned Palpatine's assault back upon the Sith, and Palps wasn't making any serious headway on the lightning front.

So with Anakin hovering as the "Shatter Point" for Windu, the crafty old Sith deftly manipulated Skywalker's fears to his own decided advantage (as any Sith Lord worth his black hood would 'inSidiously' do), to send Windu out the window.