PT Why didn't Anakin bring Padme back from the dead?

No, those are the same concept. Saving people from death is what Anakin wanted in the first place. If cheating death is meant to refer to something else it makes no sense to bring it up when you're trying to get Anakin to pledge himself to the Sith. Lucasfilm was involved with two sources which say they are the same concept.

It is only your assumption that the second "he" in the above refers to Plagueis as opposed to the apprentice.

 

Palpatine didn't know the power. If he did, he would've used it instead of transfer essence.

Plagueis's power was true immortality, and it was much more efficient than using transfer essence and clone bodies, like Palpatine did in the post ROTJ storyline. Ultimately, Palpatine's final death happened about 7 years after ROTJ. Transfer essence didn't give him immortality, it just gave him a few more years.

 

That's what I don't understand about Sidious, Plagueis was willing to teach him the skill, but he chose to kill Plagueis before he learned the skill.

 

Nonsense. There are visual clues in that scene that makes it clear Palpatine was the man in question. He is relishing in the memory of killing his master, his master that taught him everything he knew. That is what the film shows us. And that is all I care about.

 

"That power only my Master truly achieved". However, we see in the film that he knows the main idea behind the power.

Typical response: anything you want to be true is "obvious"; anything you don't want to be true is "nonsense".

"Visual clues" are not proof of anything, but that's beside the point. We know Plagueis was Palpatine's master from a variety of sources. But, you know, only in the hated EU or the OS, not in the film, which is supposedly the standard around here. Except when it isn't.

Try reading it again. I wasn't saying Palpatine wasn't Plagueis' apprentice. I'm saying it is only your assumption that the "he" in "everything he knew" refers to Plagueis and not Palpatine. Remember, the film is the only thing that matters, and proof of your assumption is not in the film.

 

Sidious mentioned in the end he could save Plagueis when he was killing him. I guess he might be able to save badly wounded people, but surely not the level Plagueis had achieved.

 

Plagueis's power could do different things. Saving people from death is one of them, but immortality is something else.

It's possible that Palpatine was also using the promise of immortality, for Padme and even for Anakin himself, during that scene where Anakin pledges himself to the Sith. However, Anakin didn't really care about living forever with Padme, he cared more so about preventing her from dying, in a more temporary way.

That's a good way of wording what I was trying to say before. Healing somebody who's badly wounded is a totally different story from cheating death and living forever.

 

Edit-double post.

 

I really think Palpatine should have killed his master after he learned those secrets.

Yeah, it's clear that Palpatine didn't reach the level of Plagueis on this career.

 

That's why Palpatine was talking about the power to save people from dying in both instances.

 

I know. For the evil manipulative genius that most Star Wars fans claim he is, he really made a stupid decision in this area. He rejected a chance for immortality.

But I'm not sure. Maybe Plagueis taught him the secret, but he didn't understand it.

That's true.

I thought cheating death meant immortality.

 

That's an interesting point.

 

So what we saw Plagueis could do in the novel

Bring back the dead.

Rejuvenate the whole body, heal the wounds and slow let body to become immortal

Let someone's Midichlorians all leave his body to kill him

Shift the Balance of the Force

Create life with the Midichlorian(could not control it well enough)-Anakin.

 

Movies are a visual medium. The intent of the scene is clear . You don't have to agree with me, personally I don't care whether you do or not.

You have your way of looking at things, and I have mine.

 

Plagueis could also do Sith Alchemy, creating mutated animal life too.

His abilities that you mentioned above sound a lot more interesting than transfer essence, which is my biggest star wars pet peeve.

I'm not so sure that Palpatine killed him before learning Plagueis's power. Palpatine said (speaking of himself), "he (Plagueis) taught his apprentice (Palpatine) everything he knew." That dialogue implies that Palpatine did learn Plagueis's secret, but there seems to be a plot hole if he didn't use it.

If he did kill Plagueis before discovering the secret, then Palpatine is a real idiot.

 

He also said he had learned everything from his master when he was killing Plagueis but later admitted he didn't achieve the level, I remember in Rise of Darth Vader.

 

That's true. What I was saying earlier was false. Palpatine didn't kill Plagueis before he was taught the immortality secret, Plageuis already taught that to him before Palpatine killed him.

So it's not like Palpatine made a stupid decision by killing the guy who could teach him immortality; he already knew the secret, he just didn't master it already. His quote to Anakin implied that he didn't master the ability fully, just yet.

I think that if Anakin didn't kill him at the end of ROTJ, he would've lived long enough to master Plageuis's secret and use that power just as good as Plageuis did.

Also, let's interpret Palpatine's quote into the rest of the storyline. He told Anakin, "to cheat death is a power only one (Plagueis) has achieved". Vader and Palpatine were probably studying the darkside after ROTS and in the OT, trying to master Plagueis's power.

 

But that isn't what he tells Anakin. What he tells Anakin is that they have to work together to "discover the secret". That is not the same thing as mastering it. It's a very different thing indeed.

 

Does Palpatine's later line "To cheat death is the power only one has achieved, but if we work together I know we can discover the secret." ring any bells?

Palpatine, despite what he told Anakin earlier, never did quite learn how to achieve this power.

 

The only way it all makes sense is if he is lying about one aspect of that story or another.

 

What he told Anakin (who became Vader shortly afterward) was,"if we work together, I know we can discover the secret".

As Iron Lord said before, Palpatine was lying to Anakin, he didn't know how to master Plagueis's power at that point, he just needed to lie to get Anakin to join him.

Palpatine already knew the secret (Plageuis taught his apprentice everything he knew), he just couldn't master it at that point. The secret was already discovered for Palpatine. I don't think the secret even needed to be discovered, it was already discovered by Palpatine. By "discovered", I think Palpatine meant to master the secret. After all, he already knew it at that point, he just needed to master the ability.

That's like me knowing a skill, but I don't know how to apply it. Palpatine knew Plagueis's secret, he just couldn't use the power. Together, he would try to learn how to use that power with Vader.

Yes, Palpatine didn't how how to achieve, IOW, use that power. But he knew it already, he just couldn't use it. Evidence that Palpatine knew the power was when he said that Plageuis taught him everything he knew (what he said at the opera scene).

But this is a plot hole. If Palpatine already knew the power, why did he tell Anakin, "I know we can discover the secret, as opposed to, "I know we can use the power one day".

 

Ah, but again, that isn't what he is really saying. He's not saying they need to master the secret. He's saying they need to discover it. You don't discover something you have been taught. You're the one saying that you don't think it needs to be discovered, not the lines in the movie. That's the problem.

It's what's in the movie that counts

 

Yeah, he lied pre-conversion to draw Anakin in. Post-conversion, when it was too late for Vader to go back after the terrible things he had done, he let him in on the truth.

The possibility to bring the dead back to life is there, but Palpatine killed the source of the information before he had a chance to learn it for himself (or perhaps he killed the source because, despite trying, he was unable to learn it himself...).

Man, I would really love to meet Plagueis a little more in some way or another in a film. Just a few lines of dialogue about him in RotS and he becomes one of the most interesting characters.

 

Exactly. This is a very big plot hole. I'll explain the details below and let's try to figure this out.

Palpatine told Anakin in the opera, "He taught his apprentice everything he knew, but his apprentice killed him in his sleep".

We all agree that Palpatine couldn't master Plagueis's power fully by the time of ROTS, but I infer from what Palpatine told Anakin, that Palpatine knew Plagueis's secret already. He may not master it fully yet, but he knew it. If Plagueis taught Palpatine everything he knew, then wouldn't Palpatine know his secret power?

Why would Palpatine tell Anakin that they had to discover the power together if he already knew it? It makes no sense.

Interestingly enough, Palpatine did use Plagueis's power on screen. In the ROTS novelization, it mentions that Palpatine used the power to keep the burned Anakin alive while he took him to Coruscant.

There seems to be another contradiction between what another user said earlier (that Palpatine didn't achieve the power, he was just lying, to make Anakin join him), and Palpatine using the power to save Anakin.

 

The movie was clear, Sidious did not know how to bring Padme back to life...

Everything else about "cheating death" & "saving the ones you care about" or how to "learn this power" is handled by the EU.