Why didn't Obi-Wan mention the name Tyranus to Yoda and Mace??

Maybe someone has before created a thread on this subject, but I do not remember seeing such a topic.

I was wondering why Obi-Wan failed to mention the name Tyranus when he made his investigative report to Yoda and Mace?

He tells them that the Kaminoans are using a bounty hunter named Jango Fett to create the clone army, and he tells them that the Kaminoans said Sifo-Dyas placed the order for the clones.

But he for whatever reason does not/neglects or forgets to tell them he had questioned the bounty hunter Jango Fett and asked if he had met Master Sifo-Dyas. Then of course Jango replies he had never heard of him and that he was hired by a man named Tyranus on the Moons of Bogden.

Now one could say that since Obi-wan did not know anyone named Tyranus and that he was not a Jedi, this is why he did not bother to tell them.

But I just do not buy this, particularly in such a case as this when an entire army has been secretly ordered and created, and said to have been placed by a Jedi.

Then when Obi-Wan asks Yoda and Mace did the Senate ever authorize the Jedi to order a clone army, and Mace responds to this that whoever did so did it without their authorization; then this is where I think Obi-Wan should have mentioned that the bounty hunter named someone called Tyranus that hired him.

Again, I find this surprising that Obi-Wan leaves this information out.


Darth Sin!

 

Good point. Conclusive proof that Obi-Wan is Darth Sidious

 

I think it was just a mistake in the movie, or Obi Wan is just dumb.

Oh, and I thought the current debate was if Mace Windu was LLama Su....

 

Who says he didn't? Things dont always have to happen on camera.

 

With so much to tell them maybe he just forgot this part.

 

Or perhaps he thought Jango was fibbing about it. Or maybe he thought Tyranus was a bogus name, and Jango didn't know the real name of the man who hired him.

So many possibilities.

 

RET I agree with you... I think he had so much on his mind and was a little hurried in conveying this message..... But it is important that he didn't because they weren't able to connect-the-dots with information that they were privvy to... and chose to fall into Palpy's plan...

On the Spoiler-Free Forum many people are critical of Yoda and Mace for not figuring the situation out, but I think that having been given the information would have changed the story....

 

Actually, Obi-Wan did tell Mace and Yoda about Tyranus, it is just that this part of the scene was cut out.

I don't have the link, but back by April when Episode-X was posting regularly about Ep.2 dialogue bits, there was this one scene were Obi tells Mace and Yoda via hologram about a certain Darth Tyranus hiring Jango and went something like this:

Obi: "The bounty said he was hired by someone called Darth Tyranus".

Yoda quickly responds as he looks to Mace:

"With a forename Darth, a Sith must he be"

Mace adds:

"Our missing mysterious Sith Master finally appears..."

That is how the dialogue went more or less. I was actually hyped up when I read this for what it represented. I was really confused when I did not get to see this in the movie as well as other dialogue bits I had read.

So, yes a scene was planned but it was obviously changed for Jango only refers as Tyranus and not as "Darth" Tyranus.

So there.

 

Maybe someone else can remember this and can locate this from a Spy Report that came out some time before AOTC came out.

If I am correct, Lucas had intended for Jango to tell Obi-Wan he was hired by a man named Darth Tyranus. And so when Obi-Wan gave his report to Yoda and Mace he was supposed to tell them that Jango told him that a man named Darth Tyranus hired him.

The name "Darth" was not supposed to mean anything to Obi-Wan upon hearing it from Jango; however when telling Yoda and Mace, Yoda was to reply that "Darth" is a Sith name.

And then Mace was supposed to say something to the affect that this was missing Sith apprentice.

But for whatever reason this dialogue changed, and even to the point that Obi-Wan does not even mention Tyranus(without the Darth attached to it). I wonder why Lucas had this changed??

If someone has or can find this report that would be great for this discussion.

But anyway, in terms of the story and Obi-Wan's investigation, he should have mentioned this name given him by Jango when he reported to Yoda and Mace.


Darth Sin!

 

Darth Sin,

I don't know where to find the report, but...

the dialogue where Obi-Wan reports the name "Darth Tyrannus" was part of the old script in which Obi-Wan also reports that someone named "Sido-Dyas" (as opposed to Sifo-Dyas) ordered the clones...the name "Sido-Dyas" was not a name that Yoda or Mace recognized and, thus, presumably was not a real Jedi.

Aferwards, Lucas changed the scene to what we see in the movie.

Lucas probably realized that Dooku would not have given the name "Darth Tyrannus" to Jango when he hires him...after all, no reason to leave needless clues that could be tracked to groups outside the Jedi when the Jedi ultimately get framed by Palpatine for being behind the clone operation...also, the Jedi might be more reluctant to seize the clones (as Yoda did) if a Sith connection is apparent from the start

So, maybe Obi-Wan just thought the name "Tyrannus" without the title of Darth was simply a random name that wouldn't lead them anywhere at the moment...as a result, it probably slipped his mind and he probably told Mace and Yoda after the battle on Geonosis.

 

Is it just me or do you guys also think that GL should leave things the way he originally wrote them. This was the perfect time for GL to finally correct those who still believe Vader's first name is Darth. I wish he would have left that little scene where the name Darth Tyranus is mentioned. Not only would it have shown that the Jedi were actually on the look-out for this missing Sith Apprentice, but it would have also shown the casual viewer that "Darth" is a sith title.

The scene was probably changed to simply "Tyranus" because GL didn't want anyone to suspect Dooku of being a Sith until the end of the movie. If Jango had said Darth Tyranus and then went to Geonosis to report to Dooku, most of the older non-spoiled fans would probably have figured out that Dooku was Darth Tyranus.

 

plus for the reasons I mentioned above

 

Irregardless of all this, seeing that Obi-Wan was operating and acting like an investigating detective and having to report his findings to his superiors, and that being Yoda and Mace; he should not have left out any information he had learned, even if the name Tyranus meant nothing to him.

He could not just assume that Yoda or Mace would have no use for hearing the name Tyranus. Maybe he did dismiss Jango's claim as a lie; however if he had told Yoda and Mace, then maybe Yoda could have meditated on this name and its meaning through the Force just has he was to meditate on who could have erased Kamino from the Jedi Archives.

Or maybe Mace could have began having the Jedi listen for or investigate any other dealings by this name.

Anyway, as I said, with Obi-Wan acting as a detective, no information should have been left out.

But he did make sure he told Yoda and Mace about Dooku saying there was one named Darth Sidious controlling the Senate.

Darth Sin!

 

I believe it has more to do with left out dialogue, but since whatever is in the movie is canon, it does pose strange.

Of course, why cannot the Jedi piece these things together about the conveniance of the Clone Army etc...but...hopefully EPIII will answer these things, just like we hope EPII would answer some others, but somethings inkle...DARTH SIN!!!!...

Keep on thinkin' .

Ciou-See the Sig

 

Maybe he did, and we just don't see it onscreen.

 

Yes, I can believe Obi-Wan told them off-screen after the Battle at Geonosis when they had returned to the Jedi Temple as we saw at the end of AOTC.

However that does not excuse why he did not supply this info when he first contacted Yoda and Mace, and he had just been given all this information from Lama Su, Taun We and Jango.

Obi-Wan could not assume that the name Tyranus would not mean anything to the heads of the Jedi Council, and with any investigation he should have shared "all" that he learned at that particular time, especially where it pertains to names.

Lastly, as I said Obi-Wan should not have assumed the name Tyranus was unimportant or a lie by Jango. Because when he was asked whether he thought the Kaminoans might be involved in the attempts on Amidala's life and he responded that he did not think so, Yoda told him, "Don't assume anything!"

Darth Sin!

 

It's important that Jango simply said "Tyrannus," omitting the Darth.

After having looked at all of the bonus materials, and being reminded of the chronology of spy reports, this is how events seemed to have progressed:

Originally, Obi-Wan was supposed to reveal the existence of Darth Tyrannus to Mace and Yoda, to keep the Jedi abreast of the Sith subplot.

Then (as implicated by the commentary) the Obi-Wan Captive/Dooku scene was added, along with it revealing the identity of the Sith master, Darth Sidious. Knowing this, it's logical that Geaoge would have dropped the discourse about Tyrannus (in acccordance with his desire to keep Dooku ambiguous, also stated in the supplementary materials) and limit the number of revealed Sith to one (namely Siddy).

It works better this way because in the grand scheme of things Tyrannus (who, at this point, is not known by the Jedi to be a Darth, let alone Dooku himself) is relatively inconsequential when compared to the importance of Sidious who is...

in fact...

brace for this one, kiddies...

Oh, well. If you know then you know. I don't want to spoil it for anybody.

 

I do agree with all that, and it does make sense that the name "Darth" was left out; however when watching the film and following the story, it does not make sense that Obi-Wan left out the name Tyranus as part of his investigative information to his superiors in this investigation.

If you believe the idea that he felt it was unnecessary or that he believed Jango was lying, then you could from this line of thinking that he should not have said the name Darth Sidious to Yoda or Mace, because as Yoda had said, Dooku had turned to deceit and lies.

And we never heard Yoda or Mace say that this Sidious must be a Sith because he has Darth as his first name.


Darth Sin!

 

Excellent points and logic as always Darth Sin. I think Obi would've reported it had Jango said (the way it was originally written) he was recruited by someone named Darth Tyranus. Maybe in a similar manner that they (lucas and co) didn't want to reveal that Dooku was evil (per the reason given for deleted trial scene) so early, they didn't want to reveal that the clones were ordered for evil purposes or by the Sith. I think he shoulda still said who hired Jango. I would've like to have seen Palpatine's face had Obi reported it that way.

 

I think it is more a matter of not enough time and too much going on at once. ObiWan is very perplexed and strange new things are going on. He is in ahurry because he doesnt know how long the transmission will work, the weather is also very bad.
It is also quiet possible that he tells yoda and mace the next time he is able to, which would be some time after.
But most importantly a lot is going on at the time and many new events are unfolding he probably just forgot,
that or it was just a mistake

 

Darth Sin

You make some good points. However, I think there can be two interpretations on this.

1). He didn't consider the name Tyrannus to be important in his intial transmission. Obi-Wan expected to capture Jango on Kamino (though how he was going to get him back to Coruscant, we'll never know) and let the Jedi Council interrogate him, where Tyrannus' name would be mentioned.

2). Obi-Wan did mention it to the Council after the battle of Geonosis. Persumably he, Obi-Wan, figured out that Jango went back to his employer on Geonosis and put Tyrannus and Dooku together.

The main problem is that we don't know if he mentioned the name Tyrannus to the Council, since we don't see all of the interactions between Obi-Wan and the Council.

 

OBI-WAN: One more thing. Jango mentioned he was recruited by someone named Darth Tyranus. Any idea who that might be?

YODA: With the forename Darth, a Sith he must be.

MACE WINDU: Our missing apprentice. They are playing their hand at last.

OBI-WAN: Do you believe he could be the mysterious Sido-Dyas, who made the deal for the clone army?

YODA: Perhaps too many pieces are missing from this puzzle, there are.

MACE WINDU: Be careful, Obi-Wan. This investigation is becoming less than routine. Do you need help?

OBI-WAN: Let me see if I can figure out what's going on first.

The hologram of OBI-WAN fades off. PALPATINE stares at the spot where the hologram was in disbelief.

 

That scene would have been great.

 

Ret, I agree, it would have been a good scene.

But the thing is, "Darth Tyrannus" isn't mentioned anywhere in AOTC (It is "Lord Tyrannus" that Sidious says at the end of AOTC).

Jango Fett specifically says that he was hired by "Tyrannus" on the moons of Bogden not "Darth Tyrannus" in AOTC. I suspect that Lucas wanted to keep the audience in the dark just a little longer by not mentioning the "Darth" forename in that scene.

 

I really think the name Tyranus should have been mentioned by Obi-Wan(on film)to Yoda and Mace, if not when he reported from Kamino, certainly when near the very end of the film when they were discussing Dooku.

Imagine how powerful that scene would have been had Obi-Wan mentioned the name Tyranus in that scene at the end with Yoda and Mace, and this scene followed after we saw Dooku arrive on Coruscant and meet with Sidious, and he says, "Welcome home Lord Tyranus"


Darth Sin