PT Why didn't Yoda take the twins with him to Dagobah to be Trained as Jedi from Birth?

Which happened OVER TWENTY YEARS LATER or have you forgotten? And that only happened when Luke's training began in earnest with Yoda . . . on Dagobah.

Exactly how would Vader and Palpatine know this, considering that they had failed to discover that Padme gave birth in the first place?

 

It's more that Obi-wan & Yoda don't really have to do anything to ensure Padme looks "still pregnant".

 

Yea, you have a point, but the question still remains, how much of the force was Sideous really using?

 

It's easier to hide alone than with kids to take care of and it's easier to keep the kids a secret if they are separate. However, it is true that it was very stupid to keep Luke's last name and have him stay with relatives. Beyond that, I don't see any issues. People are bringing up Leia, but what about her? Vader didn't know he had twins, he thought it was just Luke. And maybe he knew about Luke being on Tatooine but didn't kill him because he wanted Luke to eventually become his Sith apprentice. He didn't know he had a daughter until ROTJ.

Or perhaps he thought that the baby died when Padme died, hence there not being a stronger effort to hide Luke (of course, it was still too obvious, but this would partially explain it).

 

The reason Yoda didn't train the twins from birth is probably the same reason he was reluctant to train Luke later on.
Yoda/Obi-wan's training of Anakin resulted in him turning to the dark side so why should they train anyone else, esp Anakin's kids? There was nothing keeping them from turning to the dark side so its easier to keep them isolated/unaware of their force powers.

 

Yea, you have a point, but the question still remains, how much of the force was Sideous really using?[/quote]


Well as Yoda says in almost every scene, the dark side clouds much. (paraphrasing) I get not being able to sense sidious if you are a normal jedi knight but yoda/windu? i mean those mofos should of been able to.

 

Dagobah's pretty far away, so maybe Yoda's prolonged stay in the swamp deadened those senses?

Besides, why would it matter if Yoda could sense Palpatine. His body was never found in the Senate after the duel, so Palpatine probably assumed Yoda didn't exist anymore (just like Obi-Wan "didn't exist" in Ep. 4 when Vader brings the matter up with Tarkin).

 

Exactly when did Yoda ever train Anakin, aside from giving the latter a piece of advice in ROTS? And if that was Yoda's excuse for not training Luke, then I find it very shallow.

 

And perhaps you have forgotten this dialogue in RotS;

So RotS shows that Obi-Wan and Yoda do not think that just having Padme look still pregnant at her funeral is enough to fool the Sith. They need to do more and they mention that IN the movie.
The children will have to be split up and sent somewhere where the sith will not sense them.

So clearly, having Padme still look pregnant is a diversion, something that might fool the sith for a while but it is NOT enough, they must do more. Leia's name was changed and Luke was sent of to edge of the galaxy. Both of which was done in order to hide them from the Sith.
If the Sith were to become aware of Luke when he was five, his chances would not be good.
If Leia had been known as Leia Skywalker, don't you think that Palpatine and Vader might have looked into her past a bit?
If Palpatine or Vader had learned that a Luke Skywalker lived with Shmi's step children on Tatooine, don't you think they might get curious?

Bottom line, Padme looking pregnant was useful but not a 100% fool proof shield against Sith detection, so other measures had to be done as well. And the OT shows that they were right to make such precautions as neither Palpatine nor Vader seemed to be aware of Luke prior to ANH and they never knew of Leia until Vader pulled it from Luke's mind.

Bye for now.
Old Stoneface

 

Personally I don't see a problem with what they done. Palpatine and Vader both knew that Padme was dead. Palpatine didn't know Padme was pregnant (well if you go by just the films) and Vader probably just assumed the baby/babies had died along with Padme, so there was no logical reason for the sith to know or care about them, let alone go looking for them.

So whatever Yoda and Obi-Wan did with them was fine. Leia going with Bail was safe, he was a respected senator with powerful allies so if anything did happen he could easily have got her away. Luke going with Lars and Beru was also fine, Don't forget that it was where Vader's mum died so it would have been very emotional for Vader to even talk about the planet let alone go back there.

 

Interesting... is this said in the EU somewhere?

 

In ESB Yoda trains Luke for weeks to months and no one is ever concerned with Vader or Palpatine sensing anything. In fact Vader captured Luke to bait him out. So it's not like there was any danger really with Yoda and Obi-wan training Luke and Leia since birth. There is nothing in the films indicating that this would have been an issue. It does seem like they just gave up.

 

Just got done watching RotS. First, Yoda ain't daddy material.

Second, it's what Yoda says. He tells Obi-Wan to take Luke to Anakin's family on Tatooine. Right here the OP and those who claim "plot hole" assume too much. Obi-Wan says he'll take him and watch over him. That wasn't Yoda's orders.

What does Yoda know? From the scene I get the feeling Yoda only knows that Anakin came from Tatooine where he was with his mother. He probably doesn't know that they came their alone when Anakin was three. He probably doesn't know she's dead. Or that Anakin slaughtered a tribe of Sand People in a Dark Side Roid Rage. Obi-Wan probably knows she's dead, hence him saying he'll take him and look over him.

Do the Jedi keep Emergency Contact Info in some binder? Probably not. When Anakin went to Tatooine, the first place he looked was Watto's. If Kenobi knows about the Lars it's probably in a passing mention about Anakin's visit there.

Why Tatooine? Because it was in the script. Duh! Seriously, why not Tatooine. It's remote. It's somewhere that if Vader was going to go looking for Obi-Wan he likely wouldn't look. Obi-Wan's only connection to Tatooine is Anakin. And Vader (and probably not Palpatine) wouldn't think to look for a child. Padme died, remember? As far as the Sith know the child died with her. And you forget what Qui-Gon said about Tatooine. Because of it's nature it's a haven for those who don't want to be found. That means people don't ask a lot of question when outsiders turn up.

Let's look at it another way. Let's say it's a mystery novel. Vader needs to find Kenobi. Where to look? Somewhere that Kenobi is comfortable, somewhere where he knows people and that he knows really well. Exactly what Tatooine isn't. Is there any reason that Vader would say "I bet Obi-Wan will go hide on Tatooine where he can be near my step-brother Owen Lars. Yeah, that's where he must be hiding!" Um, no. In fact would you Vader even care about the Larses? He's the great and powerful Dark Lord of the Sith, enforcer of Palpatine's New Order. They are just a pair of nobody dust farmers on some nothing backwater world.

Why not change the name? Sooner or later Luke will train as a Jedi (Leia being Plan B). And when that time came they wanted both Vader and Palpatine to know it was Anakin's kin. They wanted the Son of Skywalker. Especially when he turns up with old Obi-Wan on his damned fool idealistic crusade. And no, you don't have to worry about him being found because 1) they weren't looking, why would they? and 2) why would Obi-Wan bother with Tatooine, especially if you don't know #1.

So no. No plot hole.

 

I don't think things went according to plan at least on Obi-Wan's end. When Obi-Wan gives Luke his lightsaber after the run in with the sand people, Obi-Wan says "I wanted to give this to you when you were old enough but your uncle would not allow it." I am of the belief that the plan was to train Luke throughout his life and that once Luke had been given training in his youth by Obi-wan he would then be sent to Yoda to master the force. This was all stopped by Uncle Owen who refuses to see his nephew turn into a Jedi because he was afraid of him turning into Vader. Obi-wan would have been unable to do anything because all Owen would have to do is report to the Imperials that one of the most wanted Jedi in the galaxy had kidnapped his nephew.

 

Ah! But did Owen know Vader = Anakin in the past?

 

Does not matter I still think that Owen for whatever reason did not want Luke to be a Jedi and who can blame the guy I'm sure Owen has watched the Holo Net news especially the parts about Jedi being slaughtered left and right. So tell me would you want your adopted kid choosing that career path?

 

Well every one has a different opinion, maybe Owen decided 'the Jedi are innocent' as I am sure a few others would of thought. We will never know....

 

Did Owen and Kenobi talked to eachother between the two trilogies?

 

yes

 

You seem to be operating under the assumption that Vader would be looking for Luke anywhere. The last thing he remembers is hearing Palpatine tell him that he killed Padme, so naturally he would assume that Padme died before giving birth and the funeral arrangements made it look as though Padme was still prego, so as far as he or Palaptine knew, he had no kids and was not looking for any. Period. Also, Luke wasn't somebody famous or anything. In fact, prior to leaving with Obi-Wan, he was pretty much a nobody. It would be interesting though what the Empire would've thought had he actually gotten into the (Imperial) Academy. Guess the force works in strange ways, eh?

 

It's simple.
The kids needed to be separated, most likely because they would make to much of a signal in the force kept together.
Why didn't Yoda take them?
Yoda is 700+ years old, not to mention a swamp is not a good place to be raising a kid.
Why is Luke sent to Tatooine? They needed to mask him from Vader, like the masters in KotOR 2 hid in areas touched by war so they could not be sensed. Tatooine was a Hutt planet run on slavery, gambling and raiding, so much turmoil that it probably masked a huge amount of the surrounding areas, hence hide him there, with people they knew would care for him.
As for why they hid Leia with the Organa's? Hidden in plain sight, Vader wouldn't be able to do anything, even if he did care, what is he going to do? Attack the Royal Palace on Anderaan to get a 10 year old?

TLDR - Split them up, less of a signal
Send them to places hidden in plain sight
Luke gets sent to people who will care for him
Leia gets sent with people who will care for her.

 

In The Clone Wars Emperor Palpatine contacts Count Dooku and speaks of how he "sensed Asaaj Ventress' growing power in the Force", so if we're shown that he could sense that then in the films maybe Yoda and Obi-Wan feared that with the combined presence of Luke and Leia they would be sensed and therefore sought out.

As for Yoda on Dagobah, there was that Dark Side cave that Luke ventures into later in The Empire Strikes back that shows that the planet is somehow connected to the Force, magic or something of that nature and so maybe this clouded Yoda's presence on the planet. Assuming this though, it could be brought up that Luke and Leia would have been safe from being sensed by Palpatine then, had they been on Dagobah, but maybe there was also a danger to that planet as well. After all, almost immediately upon landing there Luke nearly lost his X-Wing and R2-D2. Maybe then, it was no place for children?

As for Luke Skywalker keeping the last name Skywalker and Vader not figuring this out, I'm not too sure about how that would work either. Based off of pure speculation though, we aren't necessarily told that there are area codes, postal systems or anything of that nature-that I'm aware of-and so maybe names don't get around and aren't "advertised" as much on those planets.

 

But Ventress was an active Force user at the time who had been trained; in other words, her growing power in the Force was due to experience. Why would the untrained Luke and Leia pose a problem?

 

They don't.

 

Yeah...um...truth is that I wasn't prepared for a follow-up question...I really need to bide my time and come up with an argument worthy of a debate. Get back to me in about a month

All kidding aside, Anakin was sought out on Tatooine by Qui-Gon Jinn when he sensed a power within the boy...so maybe one doesn't have to be trained to still have that connection felt by others strong in the force.

This is the only plausible explanation that comes to mind at the moment sorry if it's still not much of an explanation, but it sounded good to me while I was writing it