Why Does Anakin Appear Weaker Once He Turns To The Darkside?

Actual mid counts from the TPM script. I was off by seven thousand. No matter though. He's still stronger than Yoda count-wise, and that's all I was trying to get across when I brought it up anyway.

QUI-GON : Make an analysis of this blood sample I'm sending you.
OBI-WAN : Wait a minute...
QUI-GON : I need a midi-chlorian count.
OBI-WAN : All right. I've got it.
QUI-GON : What are your readings?
OBI-WAN : Something must be wrong with the transmission.
QUI-GON : Here's a signal check.
OBI-WAN : Strange. The transmission seems to be in good order, but the
reading's off the chart...over twenty thousand
QUI-GON : (almost to himself) That's it then.
OBI-WAN : Even Master Yoda doesn't have a midi-chlorian count that high!
QUI-GON : No Jedi has.

 

Competely agree, Anakin is as u said supposed to be a tragic figure. And as for u DFF, did u have some kinda obsesion with Darth Vader growing up? Cause it seems like all u wanted was to see a Bad a** Anakin/Vader in the PT, and instead u got what he really was, a lost, confused, and tragic figure. if thats the case, poor you.

 

Heres what we know:

Once Anakin turns, he kills children, chokes his pregnant wife, then gets his other arm cut-off as well as both legs. And does a little crying.

We can start there.

 

Remember when Obi-Wan said "I have the high ground"? Funny, Maul had the high ground, and Obi apparently had no problem. Maul was a powerful Sith. Nearly born and bred Sith. Vader, however, was hours old, newly minted, green as green can be. If only he had more time master Fruit fly, he would have become powerful indeed. To make something stronger, you must first break it. Anakin was just broken. Just think about a year of tutelage , undamaged, under Sidious.

 

Cause it seems like all u wanted was to see a Bad a** Anakin/Vader in the PT, and instead u got what he really was, a lost, confused, and tragic figure

Lucas could have shown both sides if he wished, which would have been the right thing to do, considering Vader's duality in the OT regarding menace and conflict. But alas, he was so hellishly focused on turning Vader into a ***** (Meow) in the PT, that he obviously forgot the "other" half of Vader's persona, which made him such a great icon in the first place.

 

Was he really a bad ass in the OT though? A lot of his actions, particularly in ESB, can be seen as almost temper tantrums instead of bad-assness, which would fit in with the character from the PT. He kills Ozzel and Needa because they don't do what he wants. The only reason he comes off as a bad ass instead of a whiner is because he has James Earl Jones' voice.

 

The aspects of how weak "the chosen one" is starts before ROTS. It wouldn't stand out as much if Lucas hadn't beat us over the head with the chosen one theme and the super midichlorian count. This isn't one of those things that can be gotten across through words; you have to SEE this. "Powerful Jedi was he." Who wouldn't expect to see a powerful Anakin in the trilogy about his journey towards the darkside? Anakin has been no more impressive, and in some cases less, than they other Jedi. If film is a visual medium as George loves to say, this would have been the instance to display why Anakin is different. He kills kids in two movies, women, four foot bug-people, and wins one out of three duels. All I would have asked is that he actually face someone during the Temple raid. I like ROTS, but if anything is a rip it's the Temple raid. Anakin should have been shown engaging Jedi.

"The only reason he comes off as a bad ass instead of a whiner is because he has James Earl Jones' voice."

Absurd. James Earl Jone's voice is VADER'S voice. It's bad ass because it is. To imply that he is whining when killing the officers is a weak argument in defense of the suitless Vader. Shame on you. You know darn well Vader kicks in ESB. Thats why you said that.

 

Was he really a bad ass in the OT though?

Yes. And the very fact that your asking this question confirms some of my deepest fears. Lucas's "pathetic" Vader commentary on the ANH DVD, and the way he's portrayed in the PT, is now changing perceptions of the original by younger fans who are new to the saga. Now that's tragic.

 

Actually, I saw RotJ in the theater when I was 3, so I wouldn't say I'm a younger fan....

And I do think he acts like a bad ass in the OT, but at the same time the character established in the PT doesn't totally contradict the OT if you look at it a little crookedly.

 

Anakin wasn't weaker, just exhausted.

He had to fly onto GG's ship, rescue Palps, carry Obi Wan all over the place, escape with his life, then he had to deal with the news of Padmes pregnancy.

After that his stress builds as his dreams worsen and he feels panicked but not before he gets put right back into action again. By the time he actually turns all the way to the dark side he's pooped. He hasn't had a chance to rest or kick back and have a beer with Matt Damon or anything.


Give the guy a break, he just needs to crash.

 

It's not physical weakness that allows Obi-Wan to beat him. It's the same thing that does in the Emperor in RotJ, as summed up by Luke:

"Your overconfidence is your weakness."

 

Yep, exactly what Matt Damon has been saying all along.

 

Actually, I saw RotJ in the theater when I was 3, so I wouldn't say I'm a younger fan....

So your 25, and you still aren't certain wether Vader was a badass in the OT. hmmm...

 

Go back and re-read my last post. I'm saying that he comes off as a badass, but you can also see him in a different way if you choose to. I prefer the badass Vader simply because that's what I grew up with.

 

Fruit Fly posted:

Let's look at the facts first. The darkside is stronger than the light in terms of power. Anakin has the highest midochlorian count-27,000 to be precise, That's a whopping 10,000 more than Yoda, who's the most powerful Jedi!

SS's sitetop 4)

Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader = 27,700
Darth Sidious/Palpatine (with Kyber Crystal) = 20,500
Yoda = 17,700
Luke Skywalker = 14,500

admit it, you got the midichlorian list from SS, not the movie. where did you get that 10,000 number?

just kidding, i actually agree with you, anakin looks weaker as a sith, this has to be because of the impact his new change in belief has had on his entire life, he couldn't handle it, and in the end of ROTS, when his change is "complete', he's just sliced and diced.

 

anakin is supposed to be an uber powerful jedi, he instead becomes a servant, a dog on a leash if you will. he is a tragic figure, that doesn't mean he wasn't supposed to be an uber powerful jedi, because he clearly was supposed to be, an awesome power to behold. sux that he wasn't though, would have been awesome to see onscreen.

 

I messed up. Got SS's crazy numbers mixed up with the real ones. "SuperShadow clouds everything...impossible to see the true midichlorian counts were." But alas, I was one step ahead of you. Look up at the top of this page where the corrected numbers are at.

 

touche,

i wasn't tryin to be a jerk or anything, just a friendly joke. you did correct it too.

"SuperShadow clouds everything...impossible to see the true midichlorian counts were."

HAHAHA, soo true, that guy is such a tool.

 

Matt Damon

 

I still don't understand why folks see Vader as such a baddie in the OT. I saw him as tragic figure even then.

I mean, aside from torturing his daughter, cutting his own teenage son's hand off, force choking a few folks (some to death) and killing two old men, he didn't really do that much ) Well...not really

Though, he did have some cool lines )

IMHO, aside from ANH, where he is portrayed as a mindless killing machine, the other two movies show him to be a guy who is on a losing side of a war with absolutely no connection to anyone. The one person he tries to make a connection with, after btw he cuts his hand off, chooses to fall down a pit to get away from him.

The scene where Vader is watching Luke fall and his hand just drops...makes him...tragic. At least IMHO.

 

Well, the dark side is the wrong way to go about things, clearly, so maybe that's why he doesn't have the expected abilities of a Sith.

Palpatine, Maul, and Dooku had training on how to harness the true power of the dark side

 

That's the crux of the tragedy. He never became all that he was supposed to be. Instead, he became something else, Darth Vader.

What some see as the super baddie in the OT is just a poor guy who lost his way and ended up in a preservation suit.

Tinkky

 

The aspects of how weak "the chosen one" is starts before ROTS. It wouldn't stand out as much if Lucas hadn't beat us over the head with the chosen one theme and the super midichlorian count. This isn't one of those things that can be gotten across through words; you have to SEE this. "Powerful Jedi was he." Who wouldn't expect to see a powerful Anakin in the trilogy about his journey towards the darkside? Anakin has been no more impressive, and in some cases less, than they other Jedi. If film is a visual medium as George loves to say, this would have been the instance to display why Anakin is different. He kills kids in two movies, women, four foot bug-people, and wins one out of three duels. All I would have asked is that he actually face someone during the Temple raid. I like ROTS, but if anything is a rip it's the Temple raid. Anakin should have been shown engaging Jedi.

I have to agree with you Neo on the fact that we don't see enough of the temple raid in ROTS. I am from the camp that Vader is not the badass that we all would love to have in the movies but rather a tragic person who make many massive mistakes thus living a life nowhere near the potential that he possesed. However if we had seen the Jedi temple raid with Anakin taking on and killing numerous JEDI KNIGHTS/MASTERS then we couldve seen just how powerful of a Sith Lord/Jedi that he really was. As it stands most things are implied and we don't get a true appreciation of Anakins power.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself.

 

that's not what you said though. you said he was supposed to be a tragic character, not a super 'baddie'. you have switched them though. GL said anakin was supposed to be an uber powerful jedi, but he turns into this tragic character who ends up being more of a servant than anything else.

i agree, he isn't shown to be super powerful, i won't say otherwise, but that doesn't change the fact that he was supposed to be something great. twice as powerful as sidious? wouldn't that qualify as super 'baddie'?