Why does Palpatine appear older in EP 2 than in EP3?

Since the Phantom came out I was wondering how Palpatine's face would become the "deformed" one we all knew from OT.

I had a theory that maybe he was hiding his true identity with the power of the Dark Side. I thought in EPIII he would show his "real" side, an ancient Sith Lord with a grotesque appearance.

GL decided to go another way, o well.

 

Knoll's "exertion" explanation which is somewhat supported by the script, and probably the most reliable (though still debatable) of the three explanations proposed (with the lightning explanation coming second and force mask being last) is esentially what was originally planned only sped up into a minute opposed to the 20 some years between ROTS and ESB. Which given what was mentioned previously, about the Jedi seeing Palpatine slowly decay (which I had never really thought of), I guess I'm glad they did speed up the transformation.

 

He definitely appears older in AOTC:

http://tiedostot.pilvikaupunki.net/AOTC1080i/vlcsnap-10860413.png

Compared to ROTS:

http://tiedostot.pilvikaupunki.net/ROTS1080i/cap0011.jpg

Until later:

http://tiedostot.pilvikaupunki.net/ROTS1080i/cap0153.jpg

 

Palpatine looked older in AOTC than he did in ROTS? Hmmm, didn't notice.

 

Ian McDiarmid even wore prosthetics to make him appear withered and old in Episode II. He did not wear them for Episode III as the "slowly rotting from the dark side" aspect was dropped.

 

There aren't any prosthetics as far as I can tell. It's just his complexion is paler, he has some spots on his face, and he has some red discoloration around his eyes. He doesn't look so much "older" as he does "sickly." The wrinkles would come slowly over the course of the following 20 years.

 

The AotC visual dictionary states that Palpatine goes weeks at a time without sleeping, with the seperatists about to declare war and such, it could be that he was in one of those periods.

 

No it was a change in makeup departments from Episode 2 to Episode 3. It seems they wanted Palpatine to look older in AOTC than in TPM, a 10 year difference. Then in ROTS the new makeup department just abandoned the older looking makeup that was added to Palpatines eyes in AOTC. A continuity flaw between films, that's all it is.

 

Well being Palpatine had pretty much only one close up in AOTC. I don't see this a big deal. his hair is even whiter in ROTS than the previous two movies. It got progressively whiter. EP1 thru Ep3

[image=http://img81.imageshack.us/img81/113/palpe2e31pj.jpg]

 

I liked the original idea of him slowly rotting over time. It would have been nice if his face had never changed drastically Episode 3, but instead was at a sort of in between stage, just starting to look haggard and wrinkled but with the blue eyes intact. Maybe during the final duel with Yoda, he could have flashed into the Sith eyes by tapping into his hatred as he poured lighting at Yoda. That would have left it up to the fans to connect the dots, and say "oh I think I get it.. he doesn't look exactly as bad as in ROTJ yet, maybe the Dark Side is corroding him over time."

We have to accept the movie version as Canon, of course, but.... I think it's sort of George underestimating the fans' intelligence. I would have been happy enough with a non-deformed Ian in this movie. He conveys evil well enough without resorting to the makeup or the over the top vocals (not that I don't love them.)

 

Exactly. Many fans pay attention to the finest details let alone the obvious discrepencies.

The older appearence of Palpatine in AOTC doesn't really bother me and to be fair there are little flaws in all the movies if you look for them.

 

He probably needed the abrupt change so that the fans could immediately identify the Chancellor as the Emperor of the original trilogy. Otherwise the audience would go from:

[image=http://thousandrobots.com/blog/files/palpatine_01.jpg]

to

[image=http://www.blueharvest.net/images/prequel/episode2/palpatine.jpg]

and then finally in the OT

[image=http://mellody.co.za/michaela/palpatine/gallery/emperor12.jpg]

 

Using that early publicity photo of Palpatine in AOTC does not count, he never looked nearly that bad in the context of the movie, that's why I used stills of the movie only. Having Palpatine as scarred and deformed all a sudden helped give him something to accuse the Jedi of, as he told the senate when he declared the Empire.

 

While it was never as bad as in the AOTC picture I posted. He still did have a spotty forehead, slightly discolored mouth, and very slight redness under his eyes. Things that won't be noticed in the still from the movie unless you really are looking for it. Regardless though, the fact that it was never so bad even strengthens my point. A gradual change would have made it harder to identify the gentlemanly Palpatine of the PT with the sadistic and deformed Palpatine of the OT. It would be like never seeing Vader in the suit in the PT.

 

That's just the thing, though. Which fans? Most of the fans who had any business even going into Episode III (The ones who actually saw all the other films first) already should have known that Palpatine was Sidious/The Emperor. I still insist that he underestimated the intelligence of the committed fans, trying to appeal to the lowest common denominator (casual fans who may need an exact visual reference to ROTJ Emperor to make the connection) in this instance.

It's really my only gripe in the movie. I feel it could have been handled differently. I feel a little bit like I was treated like a child in regards to this. "There, see! He's the bad guy because he's all saggy and yellow eyes..just like im ROTJ! You'd never know if we didn't have him transform like that, you silly mortal!"

(I love Star Wars and I appreciate George Lucas. It's just this one little thing that's griping me right now.)

 

I don't know if I mind so much the abrupt change. As I do the circumstances by which he changed (on the ground blasting himself in the face while pretending to be weak made a scene that could have been very powerful). I also just hate how I don't even know what's going on in that scene. The Official Site says his lightning scarred him (that scene was set up to mirror Luke in ROTJ getting zapped and he didn't scar), Many people and the RPG game support a force mask idea (though we never see him deformed pre-Mace fight, or normal looking post-Mace fight), and Knoll says it's the result of him straining to strengthen his power (makes the most sense, but it really stupid that he looks exactly the same 20 years later).

 

Perhaps the force played a role in this. The Chancellor was basically undected as the Dark Lord of the Sith in episode 2 to everyone other than Count Dooku. Possibly in episode 3 as he was starting to get all of skills and power back he just appeared younger idk. He also didn't have his full power facing Mace Windu. He didn't seem as aggresive and strong. He certainly couldn't move those senate seats with such ease.








Maybe they had force aging cream.LOL

 

If I was Lucas I would have put More of a Story line on why Palpatine seems to be looking older and younger and to fit how he is trying to cheat of overcome Death. That would be more Resanoble. I would also show how it makes him alittle sick and Anakin noticing too.

 

I don't know why you're debating this. GL will of course fix this in the RotS SE.

 

Two words...

PLOT HOLE!

 

Ah, but see, that would have been a decent ROTS look for him, if George had opted for the "slowly rotting" approach.

But I do see how he could use the scarring/melting as a case against the Jedi. So yeah, in the greater context of things it does make sense, but he also had the "altered security holograms" as evidence, so the scarring thing was just icing on the cake.

 

Quite simple. Palpatine was using a Force technique to mask the toll that the dark side was taking on his physical appearance. Once he had been revealed to Mace and the rest of the Jedi, there was no point in hiding it anymore.

Think about it. When anyone else has been hit by Force lightning, did it turn their bodies into scar tissue? For Anakin and Luke, the experiences were extremely painful and debilitating, but they suffered no permanent skin damage. (Not that you can see on Anakin in RoTS anyway.) The lightning didn't damage the face...it just destroyed whatever it was Palpatine was using to hide the damage the dark side had already done to his face.

Note Palpy's hands and fingernails in the office scene/dubbing of Darth Vader. They are completely normal. Jump to the Senate scenes, and suddenly his hands are withered and his fingers are discolored...the Sith Lord we all know and love. There was no reason to keep up the illusion anymore, so he dropped it.

"And so the mask becomes the man," he sighed with a hint of philosphical melancholy. "I shall miss the face of Palpatine, I think; but for our purpose, the face of Sidious will serve. Yes, it will serve."

 

I just made an excuse that Palpatine was ill during that time.

 

Philosophical melancholy. He was saddened that his face deformed (in the novel; he didn't seem to at all care in the film) if he could just switch back it wouldn't make a difference. Also when McDiarmid describes his face as a "mask" he uses similes. Which is why I personally am an advocate of the idea that it was Palpatine's intense use of the dark side, while trying to strengthen his powers that deformed him. He was not literally using a force mask. Rather the face of Sidious was the "true" face as it was what he looked like when he finally let the dark side take over. While the face of Palpatine was fake, as prior to the incident with Mace, Palpatine had been suppressing his emotions. His face like his behavior was a lie.