Why dont any Jedi Knights wear White Robes instead of Brown?

Meh. RotJ was the first time I thought "what, the Jedi all wore robes as, like, their uniform?"

I figured Ben and Yoda had been in hermit mode. I'd never have expected the robes to be anything approaching the Jedi uniform.

 

No, "Jedi-like" refers to the black outfit itself, not the Tatooinian-themed embellishments that Luke discarded as soon as he left that planet.

In other words, Obi-Wan was wearing the garb of a Tatooine desert-dweller, not a Jedi.

As we've seen before with Stortroopers and others, mere colour alone does not in Star Wars dictate a character's allignment, and considering that the concept art for Obi-Wan in TPM initially had him wearing a very similar black uniform with armour, and the rough draft of the script explicitly describes him as a warrior dressed in black, the supposed "Vader-ishness" is more likely a coincidence than anything else.

I don't think they were. Yoda and Ben appear in their scrufy hermit robes because that's how the appeared to Luke in life. Anakin appears wearing robes because he was supposed to be another desert dweller from Tatooine, and thus wears robes just like Owem Lars, or Wioslea, or any number of other people inhabiting that planet. The "Jedi dress like moisture farmers" misconception appears to be a bit of a brain-bug that Lucas got bitten by.

 

It's to save the Jedi Order money on bleach. Warrior-monks they may be, but they still need to wash their clothes.

Actually, this brings up an interesting (serious) idea that the EU has not properly explained: who funds the Jedi Order? Since individual Jedi do not have private possessions, does this extend to the Order itself? If so, where does the Order receive money from? Does the Republic/New Republic/GA give them a percentage of taxes? Or do the Jedi, like the Catholic Church, own their own properties to pay for the Order's upkeep? Of course, they could just run off of donations, but I doubt that any non-profit donation-funded organization would be able to last twenty-five millenia off of the goodwill of the masses (especially seeing as those masses tend to turn on the Jedi whenever something goes wrong).

 

Clearly you're 100% wrong considering the PT. Luke did his best to approximate Jedi robes with what he could get. Ben Kenobi just happened to come to Tattooine wearing Jedi robes that blend in with the Tattooini desert dweller look. This would've been a matter of opinion 15 years ago, it's not anymore. The PT makes it abundantly clear.

I didn't realize this was a topic discussing GL's opinion 25 years ago.. I thought it was about what IS in the GFFA. What IS is that Jedi wear robes as Obi-Wan and Yoda did(of course, this should've been clear with Yoda considering he's decked out in the same desert dweller colors while living in a karking swamp... he didn't fashion those robes from local materials as you'd expect a hermit would do), thus in-universe, Luke's black gear in ROTJ are his facsimile of Jedi attire. Apparently, if artwork is to be considered canon in the case of Essential Guides, Luke had come to wear more traditional Jedi attire by the time of the Battle of Mindor.

 

Clearly, you're 100% wrong considering Luke's "Jedi" costume, which is very obviously a deliberate and careful piece of work on Luke's part, rather than the haphazard Jedi crazy-quilt you continue to insist it was.

Wrong again, I'm afraid. Obi-Wan's costume as of his arrival on Tatooine at the end of RotS is completely different from his "old hermit" look as of ANH, which is really the more interesting of the two, with the high-collared, cassock-like shirt or tunic visible beneath the homespun robes hinting at something other thn a crazy old desert-dweller entirely.

Your realizations really don't have any bearing on this.

I believe he did. If you actually look at his robes in RotS and ESB, you can see quite easily that the material is entirely different. Of course, the latter was a real piece of fabric while the former was a CGI construct, but as of RotS, the outer robe is very soft-looking and well-made, as you'd expect with the faux simplicity of the Jedi Order at the time, where on Dagobah it's much rougher and more crudely woven.

Concept artwork, not EU artwork.

 

Maybe you weren't paying very close attention to the movies and what other Jedi happened to have been wearing. We've got 2 Zabrak Jedi Council members wearing robes of the same cut as Obi-Wan in the OT, including the cassock like shirt underneath. Clearly when Obi-Wan decided his clothing had gotten worn out enough that he needed something new he chose to go with a familiar cut of the Jedi Order, one that seems to have been in vogue amongst the less swashbuckly of Jedi. Even Obi-Wan's robes are rather patchwork by then. I'll give you that he likely found the materials appropriate because his standard Jedi robes happened to be quite similar to standard Tattooine clothing colors, but his gear has always been rather distinctive from that of Owen Lars and even Luke. Neither of them are bundled up nearly as cozily as Obi-Wan.

Besides, I didn't say that Luke's clothing in ROTJ is "haphazard" as you are suggesting, I'm saying he put a great deal of care into putting together an outfit that was the closest he could get to standard Jedi robes with what he had available and what he knew. He must've found something about Jedi clothing in Kenobi's journal that he found in that old hut just as he found instructions for lightsaber construction. It's a close approximation. Now, as for you comments about the color of his clothes not meaning anything about a connection to Vader... I'm afriad that's not what I was saying at all. There's a picture of Hamill decked out in his ROTJ costume with the robe/cloak titled "Very Vaderish" to which you have a quote of Hamill saying that when GL showed him the outfit he(Hamill) said it was "very Vaderish" and GL confirmed for him that that was sort of the point. Heck, further similarity is drawn between Luke as of ROTJ and Vader by making even Jedi Padawan and Knight Anakin Skywalker wear decidedly darker traditional Jedi robes than other Jedi. Right down to the cloved right hand.

Now, how concept art that was discarded in favor of the designs we have now can possibly considered "canon" I cannot fathom. GL didn't draw it, and GL ultimately didn't approve it for his movie. The painting of Luke at the Battle of Mindor, however, that you find in the NEC(I believe) is undisputedly canon. He appears to be wearing more traditional Jedi garb.

Of course, now the choice of black as a color has some connection to the Jedi Order of 4 millenia ago, because in recent issues of KOTOR it appears that Jedi Guardians seem to have worn black robes as their standard attire.

 

I'd like to point out that even in 1983, long, long before the prequels, the ghost Anakin Skywalker was wearing the same sort of robes as Kenobi. Clearly they weren't just "Tatooine clothes", even then

 

I think that the senate and the Jedi were in some sort of agreement in that there was a "Jedi Fund" pension within the budget that the senate approved every year. Stuff like food and whatnot, the Jedi grow on their own.

Maybe Jedi pick out the color of their robes because it's what they feel comfortable in. During the prequels, you see that a lot of Jedi wear different variations if the Jedi Robes. Luminara Unduil and Barriss Offee appear to wear robes of blue, green, and brown, perhaps influenced by their Mirialian heritage. Shaak-Ti's Robes appear to be like some sort of dress, perhaps having to do with Togrutas or something. The younglings wear simplified robes

 

What the other Jedi have been wearing, my dear sir, is irrelevant.

To the best that I can make out, they're wearing turtleneck sweaters.

I'll give you that his garb is somewhat different than that of Luke and Owen, but it's hardly unique amongst Tatooinians...

[image=http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/thumb/9/93/Vuvrian_AA.jpg/453px-Vuvrian_AA.jpg]

That was the implication.

And I'm saying that, as of 1983, the black double-breasted tunic outfit was Jedi clothing. The cloak and vest were likely concessions to Tatooine's environment, immediately discarded upon leaving the planet.

Well, it seems I stand corrected, then.

Driving the point home a little too bluntly there, really...

When have I ever said that this was about "canon"?

To his loss, I believe. He was against Chewie frightening the mouse droid and Leia kissing Luke "for luck", but was convinced to retain those moments by his wife, ultimately.

As for not drawing it, as I've noted previously, the first draft of the script for TPM explicitly describes Obi-Wan as being dressed in black. The concept art reflects Lucas's stylistic directions.

As are the Gondorians and lightsaber-wielding Rohirrim defending Coruscant from Mumakil-riding Massassi warriors, it would appear.

Understandable, as at that point in the evolution of the story, both of them had originated from Tatooine.

Clearly Wioslea suggests otherwise.

 

QM is basically correct in terms of historical intent -- Obi-Wan's robes were pretty standard for a Tatooine-dweller. You can see that Owen's are nearly identical.
[image=http://images3.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/6/66/Owen_Luke.jpg][image=http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/0/0b/Ben_Kenobi.jpg]

You'll also note that when Marvel showed Obi-Wan in his Jedi heyday, it put him in a black, militaristic-looking bodysuit.
[image=http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/a/a3/Obiwan_silent_drifting.jpg]

There's very little if any evidence of an original intent that Obi-Wan's robes were Jedi robes, or that all Jedi wore Kenobi-style robes. That idea only seems to arise around TESB, when we see Yoda wearing robes similar to the under-robes of Kenobi's outfit. Then, in ROTJ, we see Anakin wearing robes identical to Kenobi's. By that point, it was fairly well settled that that was what Jedi wore. Yet, while I can't seem to find the source, I know that during pre-production of Episode I, they considered giving Obi-Wan and the Jedi black, militaristic costumes, suggesting that it wasn't entirely set in stone until the PT. Another key point is that in early EU, it was frequently Luke's ROTJ outfit -- black robes and the priest getup -- that he used when presenting the "Jedi" image and it was that look that was associated with Jedi Luke.

So QM is historically correct that there's little evidence of original, original intent, and there's a case for arguing that the Jedi uniform ought to have been akin to Luke's ROTJ suit. Pointing at TPM Jedi wear doesn't really counter that point. However, there's clearly no ground for arguing that the Jedi uniform is a black jumpsuit or has IU-historically been a black jumpsuit except for the 4-c. 11 ABY period, when Luke used the ROTJ outfit when serving as the public face of the Jedi and was the only Jedi; after that it retains prominence as the public face of Luke, who is the public face of the Jedi, but at best it cooexists with what are now established as traditional Jedi robes.

 

Except that in JAT Luke didn't hand out black jumpsuits to the students, he handed out ROBES.

The vest wasn't discarded until it had been removed from Luke, along with his utility belt and weapons by the Empire before presenting him to Vader. He was wearing the vest on Dagobah, with the Rebel fleet at Sullust, and during the story time with the Ewoks. That vest had nothing to do with Tatooine and everything to do with the Jedi Order. The robe/cloak was discarded because it was left in the rancor pit and never retrieved. It was the hooded robe/cloak... not the jumpsuit, that Luke made sure to wear as public face of the Jedi too. For some reason, in his mind, black was the color of a Jedi Master's robe.

More importantly, original intent or even implied intent has... essentially... nothing to do with this entire thread. It's established IU that Jedi have always traditionally worn robes... that was understood as far back as when TOTJ came out and you have Ulic Qel-Droma wearing what is essentially the same thing that Kenobi, and both Skywalkers wore in the OT but blue and red with shoulder armor. To suggest that because it was once considered that Luke's attire in ROTJ was the "uniform" of the Jedi or could be the uniform of the Jedi that that is the way it SHOULD be despite the black attire and uniform having been rejected in favor of tan inner robes and brown outer robes is just... ludicrous. Even given the bug-headed dude, Kenobi's clothing still retains some distinctive features that Luke adopts as well in ROTJ... primarily the obi sash, and the tabard draped over the shoulder. It's not the high-necked tunic underneath that suggests Jedi Knighthood... it's the other distinctive obi and tabard combo. Owen Lars wears the high necked tunic as well.

Besides, QM didn't say "historically this is what GL seems to have intended in ROTJ" but that in his opinon Luke's attire in ROTJ is a Jedi uniform. That's not true OU or IU at this point. The black jumpsuit could be worn by anyone, what made it look so Jedi when Luke first appears in it is the vest and cloak. As for the Kenobi story with the black jumpsuit... first of all, Leia's telling a legend about General Kenobi and that's how she imagines him. Secondly, pretty sure this was in a time when not every story had to have the specific approval of LFL to be published. Ultimately one can now look at it and say it was during the Clone Wars and for some reason Kenobi wasn't wearing the tan Jedi robes that he usually would and for some reason is only in the black body glove that goes under clone/stormtrooper armor. The white boots and gloves actually help in this regard.

Plus, you've got good ole Don-Wan Kihotay. Shown in brown robes, but also in a suit of full medieval armor.

 

Is this argument supposed to be IU or OOU? People seem to be arguing completely different things.

 

I thought the whole topic was IU, then QM seems to have gone off on his own opinion based upon some outdated OOU information taht ultimately... is no longer relevant.

 

Yes, and...?

Drat! Foiled again!

As of RotJ, there's nothing to suggest that the vest is anything more than a personal embellishment.

At the time, the thinking would likely have been "a Jedi Master's uniform".

I disagree.

And as far back as when Marvel's Star Wars #24 came out, it was established that Jedi Knights wore black jumpsuits.

Also, Ulic's costume tends to vary from panel to panel, and is not worn by the other Jedi of his time.

No more so than suggesting that Jar-Jar Binks is useless detritus.

The sash is distinctive (and therefore, illogical as a distinctively Jedi accoutrement IU). It's arguable that the tabard is also worn by the bug-headed thing.

Owen Lars wears a high-necked shirt, in contrast to the high-collared tunics worn by Obi-Wan, Luke and Yoda, seemingly.

Obviously, I didn't make myself clear.

As could an unnecessarily elaborate set of layered robes and a cloak.

No, it was definitely the black uniform. When Luke first appears he resembles nothing so much as an unmasked Garindan.

Being the daughter of his apparent superior in the Clone Wars, how she imagines him is likely taken from her father's descriptions of him at that time.

Pretty much irrelevant, as Obi-Wan's appearance in the comic agrees with the black uniform theme Lucas seems to have had for the Jedi at the time.

 

I don't quite see the point some of you are trying to make...
In Return of the Jedi Luke wore robes. He wore robes because he was trying to look Jedi-ish.
Why Black? Because Black is sexy.
I don't seem to get why you care so much about Jedi wearing jumpsuits...
In TotJ they wore robes, in KotOR they wore robes, in Republic they wore robes, in The Prequels they wore robes.
In the Darth Bane comics and such they didn't, in Legacy they don't.
But I see no black jumpsuits.

 

Exactly. ROBES are distinctive Jedi attire, not black jumpsuits. Hence why no one else, except for an outdated comic of a story about Obi-Wan Kenobi told entirely from Leia's point of view AND long before GL even said anything on the matter because his only portrayal of a Jedi was Obi-Wan in brown and tan robes with an obi and a tabard set up that other beings on Tatooine do not wear. Even after ROTJ, when GL is alledged to have said the black jumpsuit is a Jedi uniform, rather than the vest, tabard and obi set up that intentionally mimic's Obi-Wan's tabard and obi set up(and of course, the obi and tabard set up that is now established to be the attire of every Jedi but a few like the diminutive Yoda) no one else seems to have picked up on this. Hence why the only Jedi you see in black in the 90s is Tott Doneeta and that's black robes! Luke outfits his new Jedi students with robes rather than the supposed "Jedi uniform" of black pants and shirt.

I think QM is just trying to be contrarian. Even in the Legacy comics that vast majority of Jedi we've seen wear the traditional robe ensemble... the only prominent Jedi not to is Kol, and as a spirit being he does.

 

Not.

Robes are in no way distinctive attire, particularly when the term is used as a blanket to cover everything from Lucien Draay's extremely ornate costume to Tott Doneeta's generic wrappings to Obi-Wan Kenobi's moisture farmer's attire.

And his only portrayal of a Tatooine farmboy was Luke Skywalker in a loose shirt and boots that other beings on Tatooine do not wear.

Which seems to be entirely typical. According to J.W. Rinzler, back in 1977, Lucas stated that "some of the Stormtroopers are women, but there weren't that many women assigned to the Death Star", but no subsequent EU author ever seems to have picked up on this, leading to the "Sexist Empire" brainbug exemplified by Kevin Anderson.

You think?

Pretty much irrelevant to my point, and very few Jedi in TotJ actually wear robes, and of them only one wears anything that resembles PT Jedi costumes.

 

First of all, Lucien Draay's attire isn't exactly representative of the Jedi Order during his time. Let alone the majority of Jedi history. The Covenant and the Draay's are quite distinct from the Jedi Order main... which has 2 standard styles of Jedi attire, the robes in KOTORI and those in KOTORII which are PT style robes.

I don't know what TOTJ you're reading... but the vast majority of Jedi were robes. At the very least it is the OUTER ROBE that they are wearing. All of them. Either a robe in the fashion of PT Jedi and OT Kenobi, or in the fashion of the hooded cloak that Luke wears into Jabba's palace. Even when Nomi Sunrider is wearing a tank top she's sporting a hooded cloak. At best I think you can argue that in that time period the Jedi may have been more utilitarian when it came to combat situations and switched into fatigues. I mean, Andur Sunrider is clearly wearing the sort of clothing that's become associated with Corellians when he's killed. Yet he's in a robe ensemble when he appears as a Force spirit moments later! In Redemption Nomi is mostly seen in long white inner robes, and a large brown outer robe with a hood while presiding over the Jedi Convocation... only to change into something more utilitarian when she heads off to find Ulic and Vima... of course, she retains the brown outer robe. On Deneba the overwhelming majority of Jedi depicted are in more typical Jedi attire. Dace Diath, for instance, has been seen in various outfits over the course of The Freedon Nadd Uprising, Dark Lords of the Sith, and The Sith War. On Deneba, during the convocation, he's wearing white shirt and a green outer robe in a very PT and OT Jedi cut. In combat he's got armor over it.

That shows a certain evolution in the Jedi to me. Also a change in times. Even just from TOTJ to KOTOR you've got the galaxy getting more civilized and thus the lesser need for armor and more utilitarian gear amongst the Jedi. Everyday attire for the Jedi Order is robes like the PT and OT... and Luke's Jedi

 

Hardly. They're simply more elaborate.

I don't what TOTJ you are reading, but the vast majority of the Jedi we see do not wear robes of any sort. Nomi Sunrider wears a cape, and the only people who wear what could be called robes are Arca and Vodo. Exar Kun wears long tunics or a jumpsuit as a Jedi, sometimes with a long duster-type coat, Ulic wears a vaguely moisture-farmer-ish ensemble, Cay wears a tunic and trousers, Nomi seems to favour muscle-shirts and sweatpants when she's not clad in more bizarre garb, while Tott dresses more like a Beduin than a PT Jedi, as befits the environment of Ryloth as detailed later on in the series, and Sylvar's outfits defy description.

He's wearing a bath-robe. You can see the belt-loop when he's shown in profile.

According to Wookiepedia, this is the results of the artist being privy to the costumes from the then-upcoming Episode I.

If by "typical Jedi attire" we mean a pleated cloak over an incredibly diverse assortment of different costumes.

Making for a grand total of precisely two Jedi wearing such clothing in TOTJ.

In combat, he's wearing an entirely different costume under his armour.

Which of course explains why the Jedi costumes in the KotOR comics look more armoured and utilitarian than their counterparts in TOTJ.

That should be "everyday attire for the Jedi Order is robes in the PT". The OT, of course, had no clearly defined Jedi clothing.

 

Hey, Q_M. Remember this guy?
[image=http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/starwars/images/thumb/9/93/Vuvrian_AA.jpg/453px-Vuvrian_AA.jpg]

He's a Jedi, apparently:

[image=http://jediinsider.net/g/albums/Hasbro/Legacy_Collection/Wave_5/Wioslea.jpg]

Part of the Legacy Collection... Wave 5.

 

Actually, that's less than clear, as there's also a Ben Kenobi in that release and that may be his lightsaber handed over to that toy.

Wioslea does, after all, fall victim to a mind trick from Obi-Wan, canonically. And God knows Tatooine doesn't need any more random Jedi survivors hanging around.

 

I think he's a she, and I think she's...possibly not actually a Jedi.

 

[image=http://www.speakeasy.org/~talshoe/lj/kill%20it%20with%20fire.jpg]

 

To get back to the main topic, apparently there were a sect of Jedi Knights that wore white robes who traveled the galaxy looking for, and fighting evil according to TFU.

 

There is no such thing as a Jedi uniform.

They can wear pretty much whatever the heck they feel like. However, due to their philosophy, they generally chose to wear something simple, unassuming, and functional. I could easily see a Jedi wearing white. It's a simple, plain color, and they seem to love either earthy tones or monochrome. For that matter, I could easily see Jedi wearing other colors, like bright red.