Why Revenge of the Sith doesn't make sense

First of all I tried posting this a couple of days ago, and if it posted and just got buried, I aplologize for reposting, but I haven't found it so here I go on my little rant:
The problem with the way Attack of the Clones ends and Revenge of the Sith begins is that during the middle third of AOTC, Obi-Wan spends his entire screen time searching for a bounty hunter, that has threatened Padme. When he finds him on Kamino, and sees he is the "father" of an unknown, unauthorized clone army, the Jedi are disturbed by this. He then proceeds to follow this same bounty hunter to Geonosis where we find him acting as the personal body guard for the man that turns out to be the Sith Lord. how on earth does at least Obi-Wan not make the connection that these two bodies of troops (droids on geonosis and clones on Kamino) must be somehow connected. Surely the Clones helped rescue the Jedi from the droids, but after this first battle did the Jedi somehow forget that these are the same clones that were created under such mysterious and devious circumstances and that there host was involved with Count Dooku? Wake up guys! Sure the dark side clouds everything, but even a partially stupid human like the one writing this post got to the beginning of episode 3 going, what a minute? they never figured out where the clones came from? So the suspense of AOTC and Obi-Wan's little 40's style mystery is never realized. Apparently it was just a filler to make Obi's character more central to the story. But if it were me I would have thought OK, so we've got a bounty hunter trying to kill Amidala, he's been made in to a clone army, and he is also involved with Dooku, something's fishy...

 

Jango is a bounty hunter. He works for whoever pays him. That doesn't mean the people who are paying him are connected, especially ten years later.

 

The Jedi KNOW there is something fishy about the army, but they also cannot do anything about it. They can only hope to discover the truth before it's too late. The Senate has given emergency power to Palpatine who has pledged to build a grand army of the Republic. If the Jedi balk at this, they would be labelled traitors to the state.

 

Which happened anyway, but the point is still valid, if the Jedi had publicly said "No. No no no there's something just not right here and we can't use the army because of it," they would be handing their heads on a platter to Sids themselves.

 

Exactly. It was a no-win situation.

 

But why did they tell Palpatine about the existence of the clone army in the first place?



Something makes little sense
/LM

 

But why did they tell Palpatine about the existence of the clone army in the first place?

The clones were FOR the Republic. What they didn't want to say is that they had no control in the order of it. It was a desperate time and it was the Jedi's job to keep the Republic from being threatened or unable to cope with the growing Separatist threat.

 

Well, that makes sense. But:

What they didn't want to say is that they had no control in the order of it.

This makes no sense to me. So they actually told Palpatine that they had prepared a clone army for the Republic ten years ago? Doesn't that seem a little suspicious?
Of course, if they had told him that someone placed the order for the clone army without the authorization of the Jedi Council, that might've seemed even more suspicious. How should Palpatine know that they're telling the truth?
Furthermore, if they had kept the clone army secret until they realised that they wouldn't be able to find out who was behind it all, they would probably be in a lot of trouble once the Republic found out that the Jedi could have fought the Separatists with the clone army but didn't.

So, they decided to pick the lesser of evils. That makes sense



Some secrets will kill you
/LM

 

I thought about this little "plot hole" myself but really the Jedi where stuck in their situation. As Mace said in AOTC there where not enough Jedi to protect the Republic in the case of a war. They NEEDED the clone troops and these troops where very loyal to the Republic until death and beyond. So they didn't harbour any loyality to Dooku... the Jedi must have surmised that Jango Fett hired himself out to Count Dooku in those ten years after he gave the Kaminoans his DNA.


Fett was a mercenary who's loyalty can be bought and that was probably the cover story Dooku would have used to cover up any connection to the clone army. Eithier way the Jedi where screwed into the Clone War and they couldn't do anything about it. This was the genius strategy Darth Sidious used to destroy the Jedi.

P.S. Superg you made a good arguement... but PLEASE use paragraphs! Sorry that my English teacher talking...

 

the jedi needed to use the clones to save obi1 & anakin cos of the massive droid army

after this they cautiously used the clones, and for three years found them to be invaluable commrades - they earned the jedi's trust & respect.

without the clone army, the jedi assume that the separatists wouldve taken over the republic

good question though

 

you are right and iam sure everyone saw this too

but let me ask you, if u r leaving in the Wild West and some group of people really threaten to kill you and end yr life, but suddenly u will find a magic gun that can shoot six bullets at the same time under the most peculier circumstances, iam sure u will use it. and once YOU use it even ONCE the magic gun, u would want to keep it as insurance for protection and u wouldnt care how misterious the gun is or where it came from. u will start to think of the gun as something very precious to you; u will keep it very close; the magic gun will be able to extend your life in the Wild West by protecting against the wild gunmen, than u will relay more and more so that u will became part of it, and it to you. You WILL not give up your precious so easily nor u would care what it was doing down in that river where u find it on that day when the gunmen threaten yr life

 

OK, I guess we all agree the jedi knew there was something fishy about the clone army, but as said Yoda needed their help to safe the jedis from Geonosis.

What could they have done afterwards than to give the clones to the republic and thus Palpatine? I mean killing all, thus far, innocent clones would have been a little harsh and not to mention dark sidish thing to do. If they would have send them back to Kamino, then the Kaminoans would have started asking questions. There's just no way they could have kept an entire army a secret after using it once. It's still a small galaxy...

 

I think the point of the original thread is not that the jedi shouldn't have used the clones, or that they could have even somehow prevented the war. The point is that three years after Obi wan's discovery, no one in ROTS seems to see any connection between Dooku and the clone army. I think the idea that it has been 10 years since Jango was cloned, so maybe his working for Dooku could be just coincidence is stretching things beyond the realm of plausibilty. If this were happening in a small town maybe, but in a huge galaxy? Fett even still lives on Camino.
Who ordered the clones? Someone claiming to be a jedi.
Who does the clone template work for? Someone who used to be a jedi.
When Yoda went to Camino to investigate what fruits did that yield? Never mentioned.
And the fact that Jango still works for Dooku actually seems kind of contrived for the purpose of letting Obi Wan follow his mystery trail in AOTC to Dooku. If Dooku was able to escape from Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Yoda, who would believe that he need Jango as a bodyguard?

 

Potentially this is a big plot hole but one way to sidestep it is if u assume that the Jedi regarded the clones as an army that Dooku ordered to bolster the sepratist forces. From this perspective the Jango connection makes sense and the Jedi mindset would be that the used Dooku's own troops against him right before he would have taken control of them.
It was only by happy accident that the Jedi found the clones at all. They would assume that Dooku was behind them if Jango was there.

 

That's a great way to look at that I hadn't thought of before.
The only problem I see is one that hasn't been raised yet, which is who paid for these clones? If enough clones have been created to form an army for the entire republic this could not have been cheap. Certainly the caminoans have an obligation only to give the clones to some one who can show they were the financier of this.

 

There is nothing to suggest that Dooku had anything to do with the Clone Army as seen in AOTC. This is evident in his speech to the seperatist leaders regarding the size of their droid army.
To the original point, the thing that bugs me about the transition from AOTC to Sith is that the mystery that drove the entire second act of episode 2 is never actually understood. Why go to all the trouble of having scenes of Yoda meditating on the subject, or conversations between he and Mace about who could have ordered the clones, who could have erased the files. Do these points dissapear as soon as a war starts.
It could be assumed that they believe now that somehow Dooku himself is responsible, but there is no evidence of this in the beginning of Sith. All we see is a continuation of the battle that started on Geonosis.




"Not this Crude Matter"

 

The Separatist are taking over Republic territory, trying to manuever a war that no one wants to fight. The Jedi are overwhelmed. At the same time, there is this bounty hunter named Jango Fett that struck Zam with a saber dart, and from there Obi-1's investigating starts. He finds Jango, but finds cloners and a cloned army that was made from Jango for considerable pay.

The Clones are for the Republic but Jango is working for the Separatists. It would be hard for the Jedi to see the connection. A war must be fought in order to defend the Republic and the Jedi are in the middle of it.

Darth Sidious is one sick puppy and no one, not even the great Obi-1 Kenobi can do anything about it.

So, Revenge of the Sith makes A LOT of sense in the end.

 

Jango Fett: "I was recruited by a man called Tyranus on one of the moons of Bogden."

 

it would be suspicious knowing that a bounty hunter "fathered" that many clones, wouldn't the council think that they are meant for ba, oh but wait, thay fought for good, ......that's why it would be to them .

 

'the clones are totally obediant, taking any order without question' sorry for paraphrasing.

I figure the Jedi don't consider the clones to be a threat based on the fact that they can only follow orders. And having not known about Order 66, they certainly wouldn't suspect the clones of having the capacity for treason.

 

obi wan is a dum dum and so is lucas

 

"Jango Fett: "I was recruited by a man called Tyranus on one of the moons of Bogden." "

That is so we know that dooku ordered the clones but the jedi do not - they dont know dooku has the sith name tyranus

when sidious calls dooku tyranus at the end of the film you are meant to think "oh so he ordered the clones really - how interesting"

the jedi have heard of sidious & dooku (but do not know the aliases of palpatine & tyranus)

 

After thinking alot about JangoAntilles point I think that this might be the best explanation I've heard yet. Perhaps Palapatine wasn't planning an actual civil war but just the bolstering of armies on two sides of a murky conflict and intending to take control of them both to begin his empire. This would make sense in as much as the majority of the actual warfare shown in the films is between a droid army and a clone army, both obstensibly created by Palpatine and under his control. I can understand how someone might believe that they could achieve greater political power if a civil war occurred, but if you're responsible for creating one army and consolidating the other (and directly or indirectly in charge of both), how exactly are you coming out on top by pitting the two against eachother?

There is nothing to suggest that Dooku had anything to do with the Clone Army as seen in AOTC. This is evident in his speech to the seperatist leaders regarding the size of their droid army.

Huh? Don't we understand that Dooku is in league with Sideous at the end of AOTC and that he is only playing a role when talking to the Separatists? The separatists suffer a defeat on Geonosis and Dooku reports this as a success to Sideous. The fact that the clone template is his personal employee doesn't make a connection? I thought that was the point of the original thread:

He then proceeds to follow this same bounty hunter to Geonosis where we find him acting as the personal body guard for the man that turns out to be the Sith Lord. how on earth does at least Obi-Wan not make the connection that these two bodies of troops (droids on geonosis and clones on Kamino) must be somehow connected. Surely the Clones helped rescue the Jedi from the droids, but after this first battle did the Jedi somehow forget that these are the same clones that were created under such mysterious and devious circumstances and that there host was involved with Count Dooku?