PT Why some people hate "Padme dying of Sadness" ?

Hello everyone!

Just wanted to add some thoughts to the discussion:



Padme's death from a medical point of view ("You're breaking my heart"):
From WikiPedia: Takotsubo cardiomyopathy or Takotsubo syndrome (TTS), also known as stress cardiomyopathy, is a type of non-ischemic cardiomyopathy in which there is a sudden temporary weakening of the muscular portion of the heart. It usually appears after a significant stressor, either physical or emotional; when caused by the latter, the condition is sometimes called broken heart syndrome. [...] Women, specifically postmenopausal women, are at greatest risk of developing TTS. This has led some researchers to theorize about the possible protective effects of estrogen in preventing TTS.



Padme's death in literature
I don't know what books and plays George has been reading. I don't know all the great silent movies he alludes to with the great prequel trilogy. I bet there are some greek tragedys...Tristan and Iseult (Isolde) may be a work which he surely alludes to herein. From WikiPedia: Tristan dies of grief, thinking that Iseult has betrayed him, and Iseult dies swooning over his corpse.



Padme's death from a technological and biological/psychological perspective
Funny is it not? The droids have outsmarted the genius of men. Not only is poor Obi-Wan baffled when realizing she's dying. Obi-Wan was bamboozeled ever since Qui-Gon's teachings about the living force could not embrace his feelings anymore. Arrogant Obi-Wan became -- just like Mace and Yoda and all the Jedi:

MEDICAL DROID: Medically, she is completely healthy. For reasons we can't explain, we are losing her.
OBI-WAN: She's dying?
MEDICAL DROID: We don't know why. She has lost the will to live. We need to operate quickly if we are to save the babies.

But on the other hand (as a blogger writes it): The droid said “she lost the will to live”, what many takes as a proof, but we have solid evidence, this is not the case, and this is not the medical opinion, the droid just guessing, recognizing something essential, what roots in basic drive for survival is not present in Padmé. If you watch the scene once again, there is a catch in what the droid just said. This is not a diagnosis, nor an explanation: the droid is guessing. Medically, Padmé is completly healthy, yet she is dying, and the droids can’t explain what’s happening, they don’t know why. The droid repeatedly says they don’t have any idea what’s happening, they are very clear about that. The droid said she lost the will to live, but if they understand the concepts of human emotions and psychology, then the answer why “medically she is completely” healthy and why there is no diagnosis, if there is an explanation?

The masterful prequels tells stories about childhood, politics, love, bad relationships, history etc. But they also ask us questions whether men is more genius than machine and wherefore.



The Midi-chlorians part of the death of Padmé

Maybe Palpatine used the midi-chlorians to take life? Maybe it was the nature of the sith which got us all to the last part of REVENGE OF THE SITH?



But -- WHAT IF -- maybe it was the true force of nature that brought us here? Midi-Chlorians? What are those Midi-Chlorians? Are they Gods? Are they nature? Are they passive like nature or active like gods? How does the magic in STAR WARS work? Did George have other stories to tell? Was weird Qui-Gon right all along?

Yes... I Think so....

Enter disney

 

This isn't politics. This is everything she valued and depended on being either destroyed or twisted beyond recognition. How can she fight against a regime she (unwittingly) helped to create? How can she support the Jedi when they're going to blame her for being part of Anakin's fall, or for being an untrustworthy politician? How can she raise and protect her kids when a whole Empire will come after her? How can she live with her family and friends becoming innocent targets just because of her? How can she support Organa or Mon Mothma without endangering them, since they can't openly oppose Palpatine at that time?
As I posted, this is how she looks at it at that moment. And I didn't see Kenobi or Yoda telling her otherwise; they're dealing with their own problems. She was overloaded with grief and had no time to adjust. In that light, you can't look at it objectively and decide she should've done better. You have to see it from the perspective of someone who's lost nearly everything, and can see nothing ahead but doom.

 

They just think there are better ways to kill her off. Have her die of Anakin’s force choke.

 

I’ll admit it I don’t think it makes that much sense especially when Padme just had children who you would think would renew her “will to live” plus as established in ROTJ you could have easily had Padme live for another 3 years or so with Leia and it would have made perfect sense with what was established in ROTJ and have her die of something off screen. There were better ways to kill her. I don’t mind the lost her will to live, but I think there were better ways

 

You are all going to hate this theory, there is some conjecture based on the Emperor's plan, but most of it has to do with how Episode III was shot. To become a Sith Lord, requires sacrifice, you must kill something that you love, in order to fuel your anger and hate to help you grow more powerful. Padme was always meant to be Anakin's sacrifice. One of the scene's that I always thought was weird in Episode I was when Anakin gives Padme the trinket and says here I made this for you, it will bring you good luck. Its got a very intricate design, and they just spent a lot of time together, so when did Anakin have time to carve it? What I think happened is that Palpatine sent a force image of the object with the carvings and the force suggestion for luck, and Anakin doesn't know why but he starts to carve it and when the times comes he gives it Padme for luck. Its not really for luck though, it is a Sith talisman of dark Sith magic which will suck the life for out the holder but is only activated when the dark side is used on them, and it allows the wielder of the dark side to use that life force for themselves.
So my theory is that when Anakin force choked Padme he activated the talisman and started sucking the life out of Padme, then after Anakin was burned he started to draw on the life force from the talisman, literally sucking the life force out of Padme and into Anakin to keep him alive until they can put him the Darth Vader suit. That is why the camera keeps panning back in forth between Anakin and Padme, as Padme is getting weaker and Anakin is surviving. This also helps make sense out of the optics that Padme looks fine and Anakin looks like toast but Anakin survives and Padme doesn't. Anakin inadvertently kills Padme, fore filling his sacrifice to become a full Sith, which is why Palpatine smiles at the end after he tells Vader he killed her. This also make sense as to why during Padme's funeral they stop and show the talisman and music turns ominous while it stays on the object.
I loved Padme's charter she was strong and smart and brave, why I feel bad for her is that the Emperor played her like fiddle for three movies, although he did that to everyone.

 

So are you saying that the unlikelyhood of Padme dying of any real disease supports my theory that Palpatine tricked Anakin into doing it with Sith Sorcery?

 

Just curious thanks. It kind of does, just makes it seem like a plausible alternate theory. Sorry I think a lot fans just take what they see in the movies at face value, but I think the is a brilliant subplot of the Emperor's plan to take over the Galaxy. Anyway thanks for the insight

 

I think a medical explanation would have worked a little better

But I think I would have still preferred that Padme had survived, maybe a medical issue results in a coma that she wakes up from after a few years, maybe she agrees to keep her kids separated and in hiding, maybe she then is involved in very early rebellion stuff, like an Enfys Nest kind of rebel cell, long before there’s any kind of coordination between the the various cells, just freedom fighters causing trouble for the Empire and helping people who need help.

Maybe it would be a difficult story to tell, especially now with so much material to be considered and to weave in and out of.

 

Some here just dislike this idea because they don't want to agree that one woman is that dependent to her husband.(And some just wanted her to get some fan service type death. Like dying while fighting imperials or something like that.)

 

I never had a problem with it. I've always been aware that a person's emotional state can affect his or her physical health. And the fact that this happened to Padme on the heels of giving birth to twins . . . I just never had a problem with this. And I still don't.

I think many people, especially women, saw this as a weakness on Padme's part. And they wanted to view her as strong to the end. That's why so many were willing to buy the idea of her seeking out Anakin to kill him after giving birth to the twins. Ugh. But the thing is that many of the other characters - including Anakin - had behaved from a position of emotional weakness. There was Obi-Wan, who spent nearly two decades blaming himself over Anakin's turn to evil. Both Leia and Chewbacca reacting with anger at Lando over Han's fate at the end of "The Empire Strikes Back" . . . without thinking how they all got into that situation in the first place. Macu Windu believing he had to kill Palpatine, instead of trying to arrest him. These are just examples.

 

the idea is great just not that well executed. also we all know it was Vader that killed her whatever that droid said. it was said George may have put those lines in to lighten the dark tale a bit.. Anakin had already broken her heart and made living unbearable

 

I’d rather take the minor inconsistency than accept Padme would abandon Luke on Tatooine in favor of staying in contact with Leia. Especially when being on Alderaan would be far more dangerous for her than hiding away on Tatooine would be.

I do think the losing the will to live idea could’ve been better executed, maybe make it more speculative than definitive would’ve helped.

 

Comparing Padme and Leia is a case of apples & oranges. Leia had been raised in a less civilized age. She knew from the beginning that Palpatine was an evil dictator and that Vader was an evil hatchet man. She knew that she had allies, in the form of the Alliance military and it's supporting governments. She had not been betrayed by those she trusted. She didn't see the person she dearly loved become an unrepentant villain. She didn't just give birth to children who were threatened by her continued existence. She was certainly grieving (moreso in the radio adaptation), but she knew someone would avenge Alderaan, either her or someone else. Justice would be done.
Padme had no such backstop. She had few allies, and none of them could openly help her without endangering themselves. She'd seen those she trusted the most either killed or be revealed as deeply evil. Everyone she had left was a target. All because of her, as she saw it. And somebody in the soon-to-be-Alliance had to be thinking, "If she hadn't have supported Palpatine, this wouldn't have happened." Whatever Jedi were left would be too busy keeping themselves alive and looking at the Big Picture to worry about one person or one family, no matter who it was.
Leia was part of an active rebellion at her darkest hour, with all the support that entails. She had the ability, in one way or another, to fight back. Padme was utterly alone at hers, with no hope for the future. She was burned out and crushed, hit hard in all of her most vulnerable spots, with no time to adjust, let alone recover.

 

I did not mind that explanation for Padme's death. To me it made her human and I cried for her.

I don't think it shows weakness from her part, I never read it that way, I don't really see these things as weak or strong.

Life is fragile and people die for far less every day sadly. This just added to the pain.

I only saw it as another tragedy that happened concurrent with all the disasters that were happening at once in the Galaxy.

For me it raised the emotional stakes even higher, and of course I blame Anakin for killing her, and not her, never saw it as withdrawal.

I understand how other people might feel there should have been a different ending for her, it was left pretty vague.

 

No, she blamed herself for it. Again, that's how she felt at that moment, given that set of circumstances. Change any one element in that situation, and she probably would have gotten through it. That doesn't make her a wuss; that makes her human. Strong at times, but still vulnerable.
As for Leia, she wasn't afraid to fight because she knew, even if she fell, others would've taken up the banner. (Again, see the radio adaptation for a more plain expression of this.) But, what if she found out her foster father was an Imperial loyalist all along? What if Alliance had been utterly crushed in one big Imperial attack before her capture? What if she found out Vader was her real father during the torture session? And all these things happened one after another? That'd make a change, wouldn't it?
Everyone has a breaking point, under the right conditions. You can't really criticize Padme for reaching hers under such an avalanche of tragedy. Hey, even Captain Picard nearly broke when he thought he'd lost everything and the Cardassians offered him one bit of mercy. That's just the way people are.

 

These are just horrible comments to me. Horrible. And in a way, I find it very judgmental . . . in an illogical way. You cannot will someone to overcome any form of despair or depression at the snap of one's fingers. The more I read comments about Padme's death, the more I realize that people generally have no true understanding what it means to suffer from despair or depression. No understanding and a general lack of compassion.

By the way, the moment Chewbacca gave in to rage and tried to kill Lando was a terrible one for him. And when Leia had refused to convince to stop, she was also being terrible as well. Both were angry and both were at their weakest. Their anger at Lando made them irrational, flawed and weak.

A well rounded character isn't one who is near ideal or nearly does everything right. That is not a good character. That is a sign of sloppy writing to me. A good character is one who possesses both strengths and weaknesses. Like any individual in real life. And I'm glad that George Lucas had never lowered himself into portraying his major characters as ideal or nearly perfect.

 

Giving up, yes, or being overwhelmed by stress and pressure, all understandable. But can people actually DIE from that? In the real world it's more likely that people kill themselves when they can no longer deal with things. They don't really simply lie down and die. So the real cause of death is more likely suicide than dying directly from "having given up".

I agree 100%. I suffer from depression myself, so I KNOW it's impossible to simply will yourself out of that condition. I think most other sufferers and psychiatrists would agree.