Why the marvel comics are an "official" part of the EU continuity

ok, i will listen to your advice. the only pc port games i've bought were the ff 7, 8 they look way better than the psx versions.

i also own lucasart's pc port's since they tend to improve them to the point that their all new games on the pc version's, just way better than the console versions.

but if you say the background is that bad on the psx, and pc version RE's i will definately get them out on the DC. i'm also thinking of buying the HL for the new Episode. if it's half as good as HL and Opfor i will be happy and find it worth it.

yes your are right about the uptodate pc's being superior to even the new system's. my pc is better than the upcoming stuff, and it cost me and my dad alot to design it and i love it.

 

The 2d objects in the FF games looked alot better on the PSX. Mostly areas in the background. Anything prerendered has a grainy look to it compared to PSX version. Spell effects, character models, and textures where improved in the PC ports, everything else was the same.

 

the translation was slightly better on the pc version. since they said they fixed some of the bad dialogue translation's in the previous versions as for the background i never noticed any diffrence between the two versions, i've played both. i guess i have a good monitor with very little pixelation, it better have, i paid like $200 extra for the finest dot pitch available, like .24 or something like that even old 16 color and 256 color games look better on my monitor, than the did on my old .28 monitors.

 

Actually the better the monitor, the more clear it should be, and the more pixels should show up. Of course the textures used in the prerendered sequences should be alot better with the newer games.

TV's have built in Anti-Aliasing already. It sort of takes away from the clarity, but helps out jagged video games a bit. One way you can see this is getting a DC VGA adaptar. Connect your DC to a computer monitor and it will really show a much crisper picture. Of course with older games, and 2d games such as street fighter, the pixels show alot. A game has to be made VGA monitor compatible though to work with the converter. DOA2 looks beautiful on it

 

i have my 4xAA on does that make a diffrence? it does seem to make pixels disappear.

"the more clear it should be, and the more pixels should show up"

i guess pixels don't bother me much, i know with other people it annoys them.

my tv card seems to look far more colorful and detailed than my tv. it could be me though?

 

Brolli...
"whew, someone's gotta coupla screws loose in those thinkboxes. when someone takes their own idiosyncratic delusions to their head, and think it's fact, you can't help but wonder "what the **** is that guy talking about?!"

Yep, you're right, we ARE wondering what the **** you're talking about. It seems you have simply ignored the facts of the matter and wish to impose your own subjective view onto something you have no control over. The fact is this, Marvel is part of the "current continuity" (whatever that is) because current items include it. It is part of the overall Star Wars continuity because Lucasfilm tells us so. It seems that you're the one having some pretty wild delusions.

However, more to the point. Certainly none of us have any idea how the original contracts were structured, therefore anything is speculation. However, we know that even the most popular fan fav's of Marvel have not been reprinted. The only ones have been the reprints of the movie issues as well as some odds and ends. The most logical (logic being something you don't seem to understand) explanation is that Dark Horse Comics is unable to do so. They are unable to do so because Marvel's involvement stems all the way back to the beginning when Lucas only had limited control in such matters (well a lot more limited than he does now). Those are the facts of the matter. If you choose to ignore them, then don't go crying on about it here about your delusions.

"...some peeps have money lying around to collect the badly coordinated crap called Marvel's Star Wars."

But, as most have pointed out, the large majority of fans who didn't collect them the first time around are pretty much screwed. Very few have the the money lying around to get the whole series. That's even considering whether or not they'll be able to find the whole series.

"why the hell would they? marvel second-guesses george, gets their ass ran over several times there, and several more times by the official continuity."

They did the best they could with the available information. Surprisingly, they got a whole bunch of things right. They got the Sith rule of two long before it was ever invented. They realized that it would be a good idea to have a powerful extra-galactic invading race become a major plotline. They realized that the Emperor probably would have a red-haired "Hand" as a special agent to try and fall in love with Luke and try to kill him. They like their blue-skinned, red-eyed alien Imperial commanders so much so they're willing to give him a major multi-issue storyline. Marvel used the BEST of the comic people during its run. Creators like Archie Goodwin, Simonson, etc. are all both fan favorites as well as critically-acclaimed in their fields.

"if crap contradicts, you try to explicate them, if their not that important. if they are and can't be justified, toss them down the chute. it's happened before, no shock there. it's what happened to the majority of marvel."

So you're implying the whole "Heroes Return" plotline somehow had an effect on Marvel's portion of Star Wars?!? Good god, get a grip on reality!

"and this has got to be the crappiest excuse anybody can create to vindicate some hopeless cause..."

Well, at least it may have been before you posted

"Your a bright boy. Some are tossed, others saved. Your point would be...?"

My point would be that thus far, the other ones in the EU have not been tossed. Even the worst of the fans' hatred - Glove of Vader, Anderson, Thrawn Trilogy, etc. - has all been kept even with all of their (according to various opinions) "problems." My point stands that if you begin dismissing the EU because of continuity problems, very quickly we won't have an EU. Because Marvel's part of the EU it stands alongside its SW-RPG, game, novel, illustrated novel, children book, etc. brothers. It seems, however, that you're not necessarily bright enough to understand this whole discussion.

 

Don't know about the monitor, I've had mine for quite some time. I usually just up my system and keep the monitor so I haven't looked at one for years

 

i had to replace my monitor because my old crap ctx blew up. i like my new nec(i was told by several people and stores that sony, and nec are the best monitors out there, and they didn't even carry the monitor's instock, all they only had generic's when i went to them to replace mine. nec is what i chose, when i ordered online.) it's monitor so much better.

 

"They did the best they could with the available information. Surprisingly, they got a whole bunch of things right. They got the Sith rule of two long before it was ever invented. They realized that it would be a good idea to have a powerful extra-galactic invading race become a major plotline. They realized that the Emperor probably would have a red-haired "Hand" as a special agent to try and fall in love with Luke and try to kill him. They like their blue-skinned, red-eyed alien Imperial commanders so much so they're willing to give him a major multi-issue storyline. Marvel used the BEST of the comic people during its run. Creators like Archie Goodwin, Simonson, etc. are all both fan favorites as well as critically-acclaimed in their fields."

No they didn't. Shira/Lumiya was apprenticed to Vader. The Emperor's Hand thing was retrofitting, trying to cram her into the current EU... the post 1989 EU. Even the race from outside the galaxy was retrocatively stuck into the Unknown Regions.. to try and cram it into current EU. Marvel never got the Rule of two right, because in order for them to have gotten it right with Flint and Lumiya, they would first have to have gotten it wrong with Palps, Vader, Flint, and Lumiya.

To accept Marvel crams too many events into too small amount of time. All the Marvel that takes place between A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back is 100% unneccessary because Archie Goodwin and AL Williamson completely and seamlessly filled that timeline with their exceptional strips which were reprinted into comic form by Dark Horse. Even the "Early Adventures" don't work. How can you fit all that in?

 

Hope my Ewok pop up book is official. GO EWOKS GO!

Damn, ones missing a leg

 

Darth Ludicrous...
"No they didn't. Shira/Lumiya was apprenticed to Vader."

Yes they did. She was raised by Emperor Palpatine to be the ultimate Imperial Agent. While the name "Emperor's Hand" wasn't used back when she originally appeared, she was that in form, concept and character.

"The Emperor's Hand thing was retrofitting, trying to cram her into the current EU..."

No, it was tying the later works back to the existing Star Wars continuity

"Marvel never got the Rule of two right, because in order for them to have gotten it right with Flint and Lumiya, they would first have to have gotten it wrong with Palps, Vader, Flint, and Lumiya."

No, they got it right in the same way that Sidious, Maul, Palps and Vader got the rule of two right. There's two at any one time - which was the case in Marvel. Flint and Lumiya were never Sith while Vader and Palps were. This is the same rule which appears in Ep. I how Sidious and Maul are Sith when Vader and Palps aren't. Note that Sidious can equal Maul and the same rule still holds.

 

As I recall, Dan Wallace observed that three years is a long time. Fitting in the Early Adventures, the Classic Star Wars strips, Vader's Quest, SotME, and 33+ issues of Marvel Star Wars over three years doesn't seem that difficult to me.

The REAL chronological problem with Marvel Star Wars between ANH and ESB is that nearly all the stories take place before Vader's Quest (which overlaps #35). According to the Essential Chronology, Vader learns Luke's identity roughly one month after he rejoins the Imperials. Given that Vader might have spent several weeks seeking out Imperial forces, I'd say that we'd need to cram in around 26 issues of Marvel SW into three months maximum (not counting two flashback issues and one issue without Luke/Leia/Han). That's doable, but difficult. Since Vader reappears during the Wheel story cycle (#18-23), most of the stories take place within that single month.

We'd face a similar problem between ESB and RotJ, with issues #45-80 needing to fit in alongside SotE and a handful of other stories within a space of one year. Again, I think this is doable, but probably more difficult than fitting in the pre-ESB stories because SotE spans such a large chunk of time.

The timeframe is more flexible for the Marvel SW issues following RotJ. I can't see any major problems there (except for a few conflicts with TaB).

 

"how Sidious and Maul are Sith when Vader and Palps aren't"

Sidious is palps and he is a sith master, that has already been mentioned by rick mcallum. besides i found it rather obvious in the movie.

 

How do you quote?! Argh


Anyway....
Darth Ludicrous, the blockade of Yavin 4 didn't last a full three years. (According to the EC, it was six months). So unless it took the fleet two and a half years to reach Hoth, there was room for other stories. Of course the between ANH-ESB marvel stories also took place from a Yavin staging point, and you really are crowding up the first six months, especially when you add Vader's Quest and the classic trilogy predecessors to Episode I Adventures (forgot what they were called).

I don't know if DL personally has said that Marvel was crappy, but isn't it interesting how, in general, people seem to like the Archie Goodwin written stips but seem to feel that the Goodwin written Marvel comics were crappy?

On to different points, yes it is difficult to collect the Marvel series, I'm doing so now. Amazingly the early issues were much cheaper (at the store I'm buying from) than the mid-range issues. Write now I'm buying one $5 or $6 dollar issue a week with my other purchases. Then I don't know what I'll do about filling the gaps, since the store obviously doesn't have all the backissues.

Genghis12's point about LFL possibly not having full control of the Marvel issues was interesting, because I was wondering why the Guide to the SWUniverse, 3rd (& 2nd) had no references to Marvel things, while it had other "secondary sources" as the Droids & Ewoks cartoons, the Ewok movies, and the Glove of Vader series.

 

sci check out online stores to find the copies your missing there is one that i know that stocks all 107 issues, "dave's comics" they just charge an arm and a leg. i want the stories but there is no way in hell i can afford $1500 to get them. i know won comic in particular a marvel 1/2 issue that is like $575 bucks itself.

1 35 CENT CV - (115.00) (230.00) (345.00) (575.00) here's mile high comcis going price for the for that particular isssue.

 

Valiento...

"Sidious is palps..."

Ahhh, well not canonically yet However, I saw that I had written Sidious could equal "Maul" and it stil hold true. Of course what I should have typed was Sidious could equal Palps. In any case, this is incidental to the discussion as whether or not they're the same person or actually switch the same Sith position are the same for the point.

 

Marvel actually operated under several strict rules - all plotlines had to be submitted to Lucas, and he would not allow them to do stories on such subjects as Where R2D@ and C3PO came from.

And as the 'Ultimate SW timeline" points out - "Vader's Quest" and "Dark lord's Gambit" actually fit together fairly well - the only real contradiciton being between a type of ship used at one point.

Goodwin was a smart guy and he used some minor characters from his strips in his Marvel comcis - so he had an idea of a continuity between teh two.

 

"Yep, you're right, we ARE wondering what the **** you're talking about. It seems you have simply ignored the facts of the matter and wish to impose your own subjective view onto something you have no control over."

who the hell is "we?" who's the one proclaiming others are cheapasses? who's the one employing ad hominem arguments? you don't know how to address the contradictions, so you presuppose everyone else bears personal resentment instead. you tripped on your ass there.

"The fact is this, Marvel is part of the "current continuity" (whatever that is) because current items include it. It is part of the overall Star Wars continuity because Lucasfilm tells us so. It seems that you're the one having some pretty wild delusions."

items include what? some frickin' REFERENCE BOOKS (are reference books stories, their purpose is to help you fathom the damn story via a summation without reading it) include them, some comic makes some obscure references. some minor minor links are attempted to connect with the brian daley HS trilogy. so a reference automatically means acceptance into the continuity huh? is E.T. Canon now, is Flash Gordan canon now because one scene was inspired by it, is 2001 canon because its spaceship is in Watto's junkyard? my god, your logic is far the most paradoxical i've seen.

"The most logical (logic being something you don't seem to understand) explanation is that Dark Horse Comics is unable to do so. They are unable to do so because Marvel's involvement stems all the way back to the beginning when Lucas only had limited control in such matters (well a lot more limited than he does now). Those are the facts of the matter. If you choose to ignore them, then don't go crying on about it here about your delusions."

your the one crying here, your a small minority who preaches a badly-written script dotted with discrepancies. who the hell cares if marvel gets reprinted, so they're trying to cash onto star wars again because of their crappy financial state. if nothing's fixed, it's still broken.

"Very few have the the money lying around to get the whole series. That's even considering whether or not they'll be able to find the whole series."

shows how ignorant you are. a hell lot of fans are zealous enough to collect and find them, even if the money isn't available.

"They did the best they could with the available information. Surprisingly, they got a whole bunch of things right."

talk about a biased, rhetorical rebuttal and presenting one side of the argument. the things they got wrong eclipses what conventions they may have touched on.

"My point would be that thus far, the other ones in the EU have not been tossed. Even the worst of the fans' hatred - Glove of Vader, Anderson, Thrawn Trilogy, etc. - has all been kept even with all of their (according to various opinions) "problems.""

those problems have been fixed. get with reality. marvel slices too deep to recover. you cut your losses and go.

"My point stands that if you begin dismissing the EU because of continuity problems, very quickly we won't have an EU."

one more crazy assumption.

"It seems, however, that you're not necessarily bright enough to understand this whole discussion."

it seems you're not bright enough to understand the notion of a continuity and interwoven storyline or a discussion excluding ad hominem arguments. you don't understand there is no continuity if there is contradictions, you don't understand that contradictions unravels the whole crux behind continuity. you evidently have no sense of logic and preaches the acceptance of contradictions while simultaneously preaching a coherent, CONSISTENT, expanded universe. you give new definition to tripping on your own feet.

 

Anyone remember the old Ewoks and Droids comics from Marvel Star? They had pretty good stories, especially the one where C-3P0 and Artoo meet the Ewoks when they are lost in time with Prince Ploova (or something).

 

"those problems have been fixed. get with reality. marvel slices too deep to recover. you cut your losses and go."

Again, how so? What are the specifics of these major contradictions? I've read about half of the Marvel Star Wars (#7-38, 45-57, 81, 86 [all available online] and Annual #1). Outside of a few temporal problems, I couldn't see many major contradictions (Jabba is the biggest one that comes to mind). Indeed, I enjoyed the comics quite a bit, especially those by Archie Goodwin.

Educate those of us who doubt the contradictions. Could you give us some specifics?

 

I'll accommodate for him, AniSS. Some dissimilitudes and unlikelihoods off my head.

The Crimson Fever account where Luke is afflicted by the malady. Fails to be avouched by SotE, and I see no reticulation between the two, and some time conundrums.

Then the ensuant convoluted mare's nest from Leia's commission to Yinchori to the *Tarkin's* construction at Patriim to the discovery of a Han Solo statue on Ventooine. Like the Empire will manufacture two Death Stars concurrently? Han Solo statue?

Fenn Shysa, a Mandalorian supercommando in allegiance with the Emperor during the Clone Wars? Yes yes, I'm impeccably conscious that David Michelinie had no notion of the Prequels, so no coordination was ever deliberate. That's also incisively the enigma here. I also reminisce I once declared aim was immaterial to success. That's true, however, if aim was void, success isn't conceivable.

These variances are constellated throughout Marvel, and while some are good (like the aforementioned Archie Goodwin), these do conglomerate into great perplexities on how it will oscillate the story.

Let me illuminate on one further item. Marvel was never associated with the DHC, Bantam, Delrey, among other publishing houses' concord of a homologous story. Some are overexerting in their endeavor to conciliate something that was never to be.

 

actually gohan dark empire was finished by marvel Epic. but when they bankrupted that department, the comics were then published by dark horse, so obviosly darkhorse has some association with marvel.

 

I'd aggree somewhat. And once again, I'd like to call for a reasonable discussion of continuity problems. We should do a comprehensive analysis of contradictions and sheer temporal glut.

And then I'd like to stoke the fires a bit by asking Ghengis:

If you admitt the comics contradict the films, even if the films had yet to be created, doesn't that utterly invalidate them in all occurences that happen to reflect that contradiction?

Contradictions between EU items aren't nearly as reprehensible as contradictions with that which is canon.

I find it troublesome that you attempt to smoosh the 91 EU in with the comics when you yourself agree that that would mean that the entire EU continuity contradicts the canon material.

Lucky

 

Luckster...
"I'd aggree somewhat. And once again, I'd like to call for a reasonable discussion of continuity problems. We should do a comprehensive analysis of contradictions and sheer temporal glut."

Yes, after the unreasonable SSJ's sort of burn out, perhaps it would be a good discussion.

"And then I'd like to stoke the fires a bit by asking Ghengis:"



"If you admitt the comics contradict the films..."

I don't admit that the "comics" contradict the films. I admit that in general the EU contradicts the films. Becuase the comics are part of the EU, they actually do suffer a bit like the other items.

"...even if the films had yet to be created, doesn't that utterly invalidate them in all occurences that happen to reflect that contradiction?"

Again, I point to EU items such as Thrawn Trilogy which specifically incorrectly place movie events in a different time. In this respect, marvel is no different from any other EU item. But, as the SSJ's point out, "isn't a problem a problem whether or not others have the same problem." The answer to that is yes, it's a problem. That's why there is Canon - to differentiate the true movie events from all other EU contradictions. Marvel is NOT canon, but it IS a part of the EU and IS a part of Star Wars continuity. Clear?

"Contradictions between EU items aren't nearly as reprehensible as contradictions with that which is canon."

However, the point remains that in Star Wars, even Canon (different levels) contradicts Canon. Things like names etc. contradict one another between the movie, the movie novellization, the screenplays, and the radio dramas. These contradictions aren't a problem, because when an item contradicts, the higher levels take precedence. Canon takes precedence over the EU. So, there's never any problem. If the Thrawn Trilogy places an event 20 years prior to it occurring in a movie, then the Thrawn Trilogy is wrong. If the comics (whether its Dark Horse, Blackthorne, Marvel, etc.) place an event/character 20 years prior to it occurring in a movie, then the comic is wrong. Simple as that. The event being corrected does not invalidate the entire Thrawn Trilogy nor does it invalidate the other EU items wholesale. It boils down to this, if a contradiction with Canon invalidates that item, nothing exists in Star Wars EXCEPT for the movies. No canon levels, no EU, nothing. We know that's not correct, because Lucasfilm has told us that both the Marvel Comics as well as new material are all part of the larger expanded story they're trying to tell.

"I find it troublesome that you attempt to smoosh the 91 EU in with the comics when you yourself agree that that would mean that the entire EU continuity contradicts the canon material."

You're not necessarily correct in this summary. I'm not attempting to do anything. Lucasfilm has already smooshed the 91 EU into the established Star Wars continuity. I merely agree with their approach and choose to educate those who seem to ignore the references (continuity) in new EU items. However, you end pretty close. That's why I don't subscribe to such a philosophy as DL. That is if a contradiction is enough to invalidate something, we won't have an EU at all. That's why there's the Canon heirarchy and that's why the EU is NOT Canon. However, the EU IS made up of the various official non-Canon items including the novels, the games (computer, RPG, video), the children's books, the illustrated novels, the comic books, etc.

 

Valiento...
"actually gohan dark empire was finished by marvel Epic. but when they bankrupted that department, the comics were then published by dark horse, so obviosly darkhorse has some association with marvel."

Valiento is correct. Dark Empire was slated to be published under Marvel's Epic line shortly after the ending of their monthly Star Wars series. However, this is simply more evidence which shows Gohan's complete lack of the facts in this situation.