Why wouldn't Watto accept Republic credits?

I've gotten round to looking what it actually says in the script about this and here it is:

QUI-GON : I have 20,000 Republic dataries.
WATTO : Republic credits?!? Republic credits are no good out here. I need something more real...

It is Watto who refers to them as credits, Qui-gon calling them dataries. If dataries is just the name of the currency as in dollars, pounds, etc, I think the idea of them being compared to travellers cheques is flawed.

 

Datarie might be a unit to describe an amount of indebted money via the GFFY-visa equivalent.

 

"His mother in law was an ysalamiri"


"And I can't believe that the Jedi just go on diplomatic missions with tons of cash,"

"QUI-GON : I have 20,000 Republic dataries."

I seem to recall Han Solo considering that an extremely large amount of money. The movies are very clear about this, but go ahead and believe what you want.

"Datarie might be a unit to describe an amount of indebted money via the GFFY-visa equivalent."

...or it might not. BTW, "credits" appeared to worth someone to Han in the OT, who wanted to give them to Jabba - so credits obviously had some worth on Tatooine at some point. Obviously, in light of that, some sort of "exchange" rate is not as impossible as some would like to believe.

 

...or it might not. BTW, "credits" appeared to worth someone to Han in the OT, who wanted to give them to Jabba - so credits obviously had some worth on Tatooine at some point. Obviously, in light of that, some sort of "exchange" rate is not as impossible as some would like to believe.

Could you give me the quote where Han refers to the payment as "credits" (or "republic dataries", whatever)? Because in my version of the films, he doesn't. The unit they're talking about, may be the actual unit of payment on Tatooine which Qui-Gon didn't use. Besides, if you watch closely at the end of ANH, Han is loading his reward on the Falcon. In my opinion, that couldn't possibly be a credit-payment. It probably was "something more real", as Watto would call it.

I seem to recall Han Solo considering that an extremely large amount of money. The movies are very clear about this, but go ahead and believe what you want.

There's no evidence the amounts they're talking about share the same money-unit, but go ahead and believe what you want.

 

"The unit they're talking about, may be the actual unit of payment on Tatooine which Qui-Gon didn't use."

Keep dreaming. More of this "non-film" reasoning, eh? Might I remind you that Obi-wan was going to get the money from Coruscant, the same place that Obi-wan left in TPM? Qui-gon used "Republic credits", and the Republic became the Empire. Are you telling me Coruscant changed its currency, rather than Tatooine?

The extremes one will go to...too funny.

"Besides, if you watch closely at the end of ANH, Han is loading his reward on the Falcon."

"Spaceships don't run on credits, boy" Ever hear of supplies? You presume the "reward" Luke was talking about was in the boxes Han was loading.

"There's no evidence the amounts they're talking about share the same money-unit, but go ahead and believe what you want."

And there's nothing in the films to indicate otherwise. Isn't that wonderful?

And yes, I will believe what I want, and will support it as well. Why you persist in attempting to change that is beyond me, but more power to ya.

 

You presume the "reward" Luke was talking about was in the boxes Han was loading.

No, it wasn't IN the boxes, Han's reward WAS the boxes! Boxes became the new Imperial standard currency.

 

Keep dreaming. More of this "non-film" reasoning, eh? Might I remind you that Obi-wan was going to get the money from Coruscant, the same place that Obi-wan left in TPM? Qui-gon used "Republic credits", and the Republic became the Empire. Are you telling me Coruscant changed its currency, rather than Tatooine?

Your reasoning is flawed. There was a local monetary unit on Tatooine, as Anakin proved when he got the money for selling his podracers (or do you think that were Republic dataries, that were no good on Tatooine?). When Han was discussing with the local boys on Tatooine, he must have been negotiating in the local monetary unit. Luke got local money for selling his speeder, so Han's initial reward was payed in local Tatooine money. For all Han knew, Obi-Wan already owned the remaining 15.000 Whatevers, and was only going to give it to him when completing the trip.

Ever hear of supplies? You presume the "reward" Luke was talking about was in the boxes Han was loading.

Your lack of knowledge of these films is disturbing. Luke points his eyes to the boxes the exact moment he says "your reward", and Han replies "I got some old debts I have to pay off with this stuff" (go check it if you happen to have the films).

There was no mention however of supplies. The extremes one will go to find holes...too funny

And there's nothing in the films to indicate otherwise. Isn't that wonderful?

Actually, there's more evidence to my statement, than the other way around. Watto: "Republic credits are no good out here". This must mean an alternative monetary unit is used on Tatooine, as proven later by Anakin when he displays his money for the podracer to Schmi. Later, Han doesn't ask for "Republic dataries" (or Imperial Palpatinies, whatever), but "" (<-- nothing). It must have been the local unit, as he was negotiating with local farmboys from his point of view, not interstellar politicians or something.

No, it wasn't IN the boxes, Han's reward WAS the boxes! Boxes became the new Imperial standard currency.

As I see it, the Empire/Republic used a creditcard method of payment. Han, as a smuggler, probably prefers a cash-payment, meaning "something more real" that's worth something. Anyway, those boxes contained the reward, as indicated earlier. Saying otherwise is stretching it.

 

"so Han's initial reward was payed in local Tatooine money. For all Han knew, Obi-Wan already owned the remaining 15.000 Whatevers, and was only going to give it to him when completing the trip."

BEN: We haven't that much with us. But, we could pay you two thousand now, plus another fifteen when we reach Alderaan.

Nope, it was COD. Notice that Han does not perform any calculations in regards to exchange rates after hearing this. Obviously, the type of currency involved isn't even an afterthought. If Tatooine doesn't exchange for Republic credits, then why should the Republic exchange for Tatooine's? Obviously, each system has its own, unexchangeable currencies, as you and TPM would have us believe, RIGHT!?!

"Your lack of knowledge of these films is disturbing. Luke points his eyes to the boxes the exact moment he says "your reward", and Han replies "I got some old debts I have to pay off with this stuff" (go check it if you happen to have the films)."

You go, boy! You're right, I totally forgot that x-ray vision was a Force power. Silly me.

Luke had no idea what was in the boxes, and Han was in no mood to argue. He just wanted to leave.

"There was no mention however of supplies."

Yeah, nowhere in that entire flight hanger where all the pilots where getting their ships ready. What a stretch, right?!? And you say I miss stuff.

"Boxes became the new Imperial standard currency."

I thought the Imperial currency was shrubberies?

 

BEN: We haven't that much with us. But, we could pay you two thousand now, plus another fifteen when we reach Alderaan.

Great, a quote that doesn't come from the movie. Try "we can pay 2000 now, plus 15, when we reach Alderaan". He doesn't say "we don't have that much with us", so, like I said, for all Han knew, Obi-Wan already owned the remaining 15. Seems to me you're watching too much the movies you don't like and not the ones you do like, or am I missing something?

Notice that Han does not perform any calculations in regards to exchange rates after hearing this. Obviously, the type of currency involved isn't even an afterthought.

I still don't understand - in the whole conversation they use the same currency-unit, so no talk about currency-exchange is needed. Remains the question what currency-unit they are using. Frankly, this doesn't really matter: Han gets payed the advance money in Tatooine-money, and gets the rest of the reward payed with goods that are probably exceeding 15.000 Whatevers in worth. Both parts of the reward aren't payed in Imperial/Republican dataries; they're non-standard on Tatooine, and Leia's payment (probably luxury goods) couldn't possibly have been credits.

Luke had no idea what was in the boxes, and Han was in no mood to argue. He just wanted to leave.

Now you're really stretching things. If Han says "I got some old debts I have to pay off with this stuff", what's the "this stuff" he's referring to? And why did Luke visually pin-point the reward to the audience? How come Luke immediately knew Han was just taking his reward and leaving, and not just preparing to join the others in the battle against the Death Star? From the moment he saw Han after that briefing, before even speaking a word, he was visually upset by what he saw - seems to me Luke had a pretty firm idea of what was in those boxes.

Yeah, nowhere in that entire flight hanger where all the pilots where getting their ships ready. What a stretch, right?!? And you say I miss stuff.

Strange, in my version of the film, none of the pilots were loading "supplies" into theirs ships, or getting their ships ready (that was taking care of by separate crews by fueling via hoses, lowering droids and checking ships - no loading "supplies" by them either). The problem is not that you miss stuff, but that you seem to see and hear imaginary stuff. Han was the only one loading goods into his ship. Together with Luke visually pinpointing "the reward", and Han referring to it as "the stuff that's needed to pay off old debts", you're really stretching it to say it were merely supplies.

And supplies for what exactly? The Millenium Falcon runs on gasoline now that has to be stowed into boxes into the cargobay, in contrast with all the fuel hoses that others use? Or is it something else? What exactly did those "supplies", which we never heard any mention of, contain? Let me guess, Wookie-cookies?

 

"(that was taking care of by separate crews by fueling via hoses, lowering droids and checking ships - no loading "supplies" by them either)"

Han takes care of his own ship, and "fuel" would be one type of "supplies" that a ship needs, unless you think they run on wookie-cookies.

Other than that, split all the hairs you want. I find it laughable that you believe the hidden rebel base on Yavin is stocked flush with all these credits that apparently aren't even worth anything in the Republic. I guess in the middle of all this fighting and waiting for the inevitable attack on the Death Star, Dodonna made a run to the galactic ATM, and then exchanged all his money for Tatooine credits - of course, he'd have to go to Tatooine to do so, according to you, so why didn't Dodonna pay off Jabba at that time? ?

Nope, makes more sense if the currency is the same regardless of the locale, but I won't expect you to understand that possibility.

 

Just had to add this last thing.

QUI-GON : I have 20,000 Republic dataries.

WATTO : Republic credits?!? Republic credits are no good out here. I need something more real...

---

[i][b]"He was to transport Obi-Wan Kenobi, Luke Skywalker, Artoo-Detoo and See-Threepio from Tatooine to Alderaan for the price of 17,000 credits."[/i][/b] - [link=http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/hansolo/index.html]OS: Han Solo[/link][hr][i][b]"With no options, Han jettisoned Jabba's cargo into space.

The Hutt was livid. He demanded compensation for his lost cargo. When Solo failed to provide the credits, Jabba sicced his bounty hunters after him."[/i][/b] - [link=http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/jabbathehutt/]OS: Jabba the Hutt[/link][/blockquote]
"Credits", "credits" and more "credits". Seems pretty clear to me. Watto seems to know the difference (as well as the colloquial term), yet Han never brings it up? Even despite the fact he's going to a planet [i]other[/i] than Tatooine, which you claim has its own currency in the OT? (With no proof.)

Nope. I'll go with the [i]lack[/i] of distinction that the OS shows over your [i]"maybe it was this/that/the other"[/i] rationale. Credits are credits are credits. Qui-gon speaks of "credits", Jabba wanted "credits", Han was expecting to get "credits", and now you claim there weren't even "credits" in the boxes...it [i]had[/i] to be "something else". :^O

Sure, it had to be, if only to make your theory make sense.

Watto doesn't want credits in the PT, but later they are accepted in the OT. No convoluted economic theories are necessary, and frankly miss the point altogether.

 

I find it laughable that you believe the hidden rebel base on Yavin is stocked flush with all these credits that apparently aren't even worth anything in the Republic. I guess in the middle of all this fighting and waiting for the inevitable attack on the Death Star, Dodonna made a run to the galactic ATM, and then exchanged all his money for Tatooine credits - of course, he'd have to go to Tatooine to do so, according to you, so why didn't Dodonna pay off Jabba at that time?

That's because Leia's payment to Han was not in Tatooine money, nor in Imperial money, but in goods (that were contained in those boxes). If it doesn't, the monetary system of the Republic/Empire is laughable. It's not a payment in a monetary unit, but with manufactured goods that are worth the price Han proposed on Tatooine. You don't always have to pay stuff with money, you know, you can also barter. Have you noticed how QG was going to pay the entry-fee of the podrace with his ship? Spaceships are not exactly a monetary unit. In The Last Crusade, the Germans didn't pay the foreign king with Reichsmarks, but with a car. Cars are not exactly a monetary unit. Sometimes, you pay stuff with material goods because you don't have anything else, or because you agree to. Han, as a smuggler, probably preferred a payment in goods above electronic payment.

Qui-gon speaks of "credits", Jabba wanted "credits", Han was expecting to get "credits", and now you claim there weren't even "credits" in the boxes...it had to be "something else".

Qui-Gon & Watto are the only ones that speak (and will speak) of credits in the whole SW-saga. Jabba and Han just expected to be paid, never was it specified in what form or currency. Any payment is good, as long as it has the same value. It's crystalclear the boxes contain the payment for Han Solo. So, if you really think those boxes contained Imperial/Republic credits, Qui-Gon must have owned at least the same amount of boxes filled with credits, right? Point me the location where he stowed that amount of money. I must have missed Obi frantically running behind him on the droid control ship while carrying a bunch of boxes.

Watto doesn't want credits in the PT, but later they are accepted in the OT. No convoluted economic theories are necessary, and frankly miss the point altogether.

Official site quoting isn't even necessary, as it doesn't help a thing. It doesn't specify if Han/Jabba wanted Republic credits/Republic dataries/Imperial credits or any other form of credits that were used in that galaxy (and there were others, as Tatooine has proven). That doesn't conclude a thing. What we did get out of the films however:

SCHMI : "The Republic doesn't exist out here."
WATTO : "Republic credits are no good out here."
QGJ : "We have nothing of value."

TPM makes it clear Republic credits are worthless on Tatooine. There's no evidence they're later accepted in the OT; the political situation on Tatooine doesn't change, and you can go look on the OS for evidence against that all you want, you won't find it.

 

>>>My vote still goes for Scott3eyez' explanation.

Mine too.


Watto doesn't accept credits, he says they aren't "real." He also says that mind tricks don't work on him "only money."

Implication- "Republic Dataries" are the same thing as "Republic Credits", aren't "real", and aren't "money."

Look the words "credit" and "money" and the explanation for why Watto won't accept them becomes obvious.

Me: "I want more drinksh. I've got an American Expresh with a limit of sheven thoushand poundsh here."
Barman: "A credit card? Credit cards are no good here- we don't have a machine to take them. I need something more real."
Me: (Waves hand dismissively in front of face. Misses.) "My credit card will be fine.
Barman: "What, you think you're some kind of hard man, threatening to slap me in the face like that? Violent threats won't work with me- only money."
Me: "Bugger." (Slumps into a heap on the floor and starts snoring.)

True story...

 

Look the words "credit" and "money" and the explanation for why Watto won't accept them becomes obvious.

In a galaxy with flying cars, spaceships that travel faster than light, and interstellar communication, I find it absurd they would still use coins and notes for payment. They'd need to mine several planets just for the coins, and have to grow entire forestplanets the size of Endor to produce notes. To me, it seems obvious: they use an electronic payment system. As Tatooine isn't situated in the Republic/Empire, they have their own method of payment. Republic credit cards are only worth their value in plastic on Tatooine. As Han Solo is also an outsider to the system (being a smuggler), he probably doesn't have an Imperial account, but uses cash money from the outer rim territories (like local Tatooine money, which exists), or certain valuable goods, that I assume were supplied to him by Leia for her rescue. As stated, if Han's rewardboxes were filled with "credits", QG & Obi had to be carrying a lot of boxes in their pockets.

@Scott3eyez: you should have proposed racing him the very next day with bicycles - that's the weak spot of most bartenders .

 

"Implication- "Republic Dataries" are the same thing as "Republic Credits", aren't "real", and aren't "money."

If I used Russian currency in the US, someone could still say it was not "real". Sure, it's "money", but that doesn't mean it has the same worth here as it does in Russia.

"In a galaxy with flying cars, spaceships that travel faster than light, and interstellar communication, I find it absurd they would still use coins and notes for payment."

Would it interest you to know that Lucas says there are no books in AGFFA?

It's all made up, man. Loosen up.

 

Would it interest you to know that Lucas says there are no books in AGFFA?

There's toiletpaper though. Palpatine has them with Sith-markings.

 

I've just realised that I skipped a whole page of the thread...

>>>"Credits", "credits" and more "credits". Seems pretty clear to me.

But only one instance of "Republic credits." (And two instances of "non-film reasoning"...)

>>>>If I used Russian currency in the US, someone could still say it was not "real". Sure, it's "money", but that doesn't mean it has the same worth here as it does in Russia.

Money doesn't stop being "real", but it doesn't have the same value to your average shopkeeper, who a) can't be bothered to exchange it and b) probably wouldn't have the necessary knowledge to guarantee it's authenticity if he did want to accept it- but you could fairly easily exchange it for dollars, as it is real money, and is of definite value (eg. to currency exchanges.)
Real money of real value, but still of little value to you in that situation, outside of where the money was commonly used.

Compare those to when I was stuck in a backward corner of Prague a few years ago with a pocket full of travellers cheques but no idea what the local currency was worth (or even what it was called), but with plenty of taxi drivers who were happy to exchange them for the local currency for me (long story...)
While what I had was clearly of value to both them and me, because I didn't know what they were offering to exchange them for (which could have been Czech monopoly money for all I knew) their service was of little value to me- even though they had exactly what I wanted; useful local currency.
Real money, but of little value to me (despite being exactly what I needed!)

Both of those stories illustrate that even real money isn't of fixed value to everyone.

Funnily enough, my girlfriend's just come back from a holiday in Singapore, where she tried to pay for something with a "Maestro" debit card, which they didn't accept over there. She couldn't exchange that for Singaporean dollars, or anything else. Over there, it was of no value to anyone- including my girlfriend- because it wasn't real money- it was a system of credit being used outside it's "domain."

(And those actually are true stories...)

 

"Money doesn't stop being "real",

I meant in terms of point of view. The credits wouldn't be "real" to Watto, because he can't use them. It had nothing to do with the legitimacy of the currency, simply the viewpoint of the intended recipient. (Oops, your next example illustrates my point perfectly. )

"Funnily enough, my girlfriend's just come back from a holiday in Singapore, where she tried to pay for something with a "Maestro" debit card, which they didn't accept over there. She couldn't exchange that for Singaporean dollars, or anything else. Over there, it was of no value to anyone- including my girlfriend- because it wasn't real money- it was a system of credit being used outside it's "domain."

Makes sense, but there's still nothing to indicate that Qui-gon was using a credit card. Obviously, a lot of this was simply glossed over.

 

MeBe, you are just incapable of keeping an argument civil? A thread about credits was about the last place I was expecting to see a heated debate break out.

Besides, there's no information in the movies to tell us if (or what) the difference is between Imperial era currency and Republic era currency, so everything in this argument is pure speculation and no one has an inch to stand on some "intellictual" high ground (regarding that part of the debate).

 

>>>>Makes sense, but there's still nothing to indicate that Qui-gon was using a credit card.

Credit cards are simply a real world illustration of the idea of "credit"- a system of allowing customers to take goods on the condition of payment later, guaranteed by a third pary (in the real world example, Visa/Mastercard/American express etc- in the GFFA, the Republic.)

Watto calls Qui Gon's Republic Dataries "Republic Credits"- that is to me at least a very clear indication that the method of payment he's being offered is one of credit rather than money, and once that has been established, everything else falls into place.

Of course, all you need to know to understand the film is that Watto won't accept what Qui Gon is offering, whether it's money, credit or goods to exchange- but I wouldn't necessarily call the lack of an explanation of the economics of trading "glossing over", any more than I would call the OT's failure to define the political distinction between an Empire and a Republic "glossing over"...

 

It's apparent to me anyways, that credits are the Star Wars Universe terminology or equilvalent to dollars.

 

It's apparent to me anyways, that credits are the Star Wars Universe terminology or equilvalent to dollars.

As a value-measure, yes, but they don't share the exact same implementation.

 

As a value-measure, yes, but they don't share the exact same implementation.

Not attempting to be difficult, but is this merely opinion or do you have some factual evidence supporting that?

 

Not attempting to be difficult, but is this merely opinion or do you have some factual evidence supporting that?

Maybe the fact that they don't use coins and notes? Therefore, it's not the exact implementation? My opinion however, is that the Republic/Empire uses electronic money, with credit card equivalents, and reusable memory-cards that may contain money-units (like we have smartcards). Memory-cards are for small amounts of money, credit-cards for big amounts. That's just my take on how it would work.

 

How do you know they don't use coins and notes? We never see any one buying anything except on Tatooine from what I can remember, and on Tatooine they do use coins.