Why wouldn't Watto accept Republic credits?

No matter where you go, docks need cash to pay their workers and cover maintenance. A dock without income can't function.

And how is this explanation different from me saying they use a credit card system in the Republic? You just made that stuff up without any actual evidence in the film, while it seems logical to you. Let's make a deal: you get your docking fees if that's your thing, I'll get my creditcard?

Besides which, offworlders don't just come to Tattoine to sit in the docking bay. How could they do any business at all if the planet inexplicably refused to accept or exchange their money? (And they clearly do business, as evidenced by the multitude of offworlders at the races.

What if the Hutts controlled the money-exchange, being the gangsters that they are? Or do you know the exact spots of where they exchange money on Tatooine? Street, number?

Even if you want to assume that the 15 grand would have come from somewhere else, it's obviously somewhere else besides Tattooine.

And what exactly has this to do with anything? They're negotiating in the same currency-unit, that's for sure. But we still don't get evidence of which currency-unit, though you may always go for your logical conclusion, while I can go for my logical conclusion. You will NEVER have absolute evidence, now matter how much webspace you're going to fill with posts.

Why on Earth would Ben make Luke sell his speeder if he already had the money?

Never heard of bluff?

What is the purpose of a spaceport if not interstellar commerce?

I don't deny there's no interstellar commerce. I'm just not so sure how intertwined it is with the spacefaring economy of the Republic/Empire. Nor are you.

 

Gotta go, but first...

Me: No matter where you go, docks need cash to pay their workers and cover maintenance. A dock without income can't function.

You: And how is this explanation different from me saying they use a credit card system in the Republic?

"Docks need money" is a fact.

"A Republic Dactari is a unit on a credit card" is a wild guess.

Let's make a deal: you get your docking fees if that's your thing, I'll get my creditcard?

No deal.

What if the Hutts controlled the money-exchange, being the gangsters that they are?

So obviously, there is an exchange. There has to be. We've established this.

The only halfway reasonable explanation for "why didn't the characters use it?" is that they were afraid of drawing the Hutts' attention, assuming (not unreasonably) that the Hutts control all exchange on the planet. Even that's a stretch, though; if, per that assumption, the Hutts control every exchange, why would this one exchange cause them to send in the Marines?

Me: Even if you want to assume that the 15 grand would have come from somewhere else, it's obviously somewhere else besides Tattooine.

And what exactly has this to do with anything? They're negotiating in the same currency-unit, that's for sure. But we still don't get evidence of which currency-unit...

While they may not give its name, it's obvious that they can access this currency both on Tattooine--from common merchants--and elsewhere.

Me: Why on Earth would Ben make Luke sell his speeder if he already had the money?

You: Never heard of bluff?

Wait... are you saying he bluffing to Luke? That Ben had the money, but made Luke sell his speeder to pay for the ride?

Me: What is the purpose of a spaceport if not interstellar commerce?

You: I don't deny there's no interstellar commerce. I'm just not so sure how intertwined it is with the spacefaring economy of the Republic/Empire.

Obviously, there are Republic citizens on Tattooine. That, in itself, proves that there's an exchange system, which is what this thread revolves around.

 

""Han, when we land on Alderaan, I'll get some Alderaanian money from the local bank".

He doesn't have to. There's no distinction, except that which you've created. My interpretation requires no such thing.

"He never says he doesn't have all the money right there on Tatooine (Obi may be in the possession of the 17.000 Wupiupis for all Han knows), yet you chose to interpret otherwise."

He never says he doesn't have underwear, either. BTW, where in the film are "Wupiupis" mentioned again? Might they be from that darned OS that you spoke so poorly of earlier? ?


"Still waiting for you to point out where Qui-Gon stowed his boxes in his Jedi suit."

Probably in the same place where Obi-wan hides all these boxes of money you claim he has on the Millenium Falcon. Considering how many Han had to pack in ESB, you'd think he'd expect as much from Obi-wan, RIGHT!?

Nope, Obi-wan says "Myself, the boy, two droids and no questions asked." Nothing about any boxes of money or other worldly (i.e. valuable) possessions. Did you think Han missed that as well?

"Why on Earth would Ben make Luke sell his speeder if he already had the money?"

"Never heard of bluff?"

Are you saying Obi-wan was bluffing Luke?

"What if the Hutts..."
"It may also be that Obi is...""

'nuff said.

"So obviously, there is an exchange. There has to be. We've established this."

"The only halfway reasonable explanation for "why didn't the characters use it?" is that they were afraid of drawing the Hutts' attention, assuming (not unreasonably) that the Hutts control all exchange on the planet. Even that's a stretch, though; if, per that assumption, the Hutts control every exchange, why would this one exchange cause them to send in the Marines?"

So true!

 

No deal.

And if I add a Luke-actionfigure into the mix?

So obviously, there is an exchange. There has to be. We've established this.

So obviously, they didn't have any actual Republic currency to exchange, but were using a GFFA creditcard-equivalent. You can go exchange dollars in an exchange-office, but you can't go exchange a credit-card, unless you want the value in plastic for money.

While they may not give its name, it's obvious that they can access this currency both on Tattooine--from common merchants--and elsewhere.

So it was the same as in the rewardboxes then? Could you point out where Qui-Gon stowed his boxes in his Jedi suit?

Wait... are you saying he bluffing to Luke?

*sigh* Obviously not. I meant bluffing to Han, but I skipped that step in putting into my explanation. Thought you would understand this, but everything is taken so literally onto these forums because of flaw-hysteria.

Obviously, there are Republic citizens on Tattooine. That, in itself, proves that there's an exchange system, which is what this thread revolves around.

Republic citizens aren't common (even rare) on Tatooine, as otherwise Republic credits would be widely accepted. There must be two components to money, just as we have in our today's world: we have cashmoney (that can be exchanged), or creditcards (that can be exchanged for its value in plastic). Qui-Gon was using the latter form.

He never says he doesn't have underwear, either. BTW, where in the film are "Wupiupis" mentioned again? Might they be from that darned OS that you spoke so poorly of earlier?

Well, you got this film called TPM, and there's Jar Jar walking on Tatooine, wanting a snack. But when he eats it, the merchant asks a price in "wupiupi" (don't Force-choke me for the spelling). So hold your horses for rushing off to the OS.

Probably in the same place where Obi-wan hides all these boxes of money you claim he has on the Millenium Falcon. Considering how many Han had to pack in ESB, you'd think he'd expect as much from Obi-wan, RIGHT!?

Say I follow your point that there are "credits" in the rewardboxes, and that Obi didn't have all the money while Han was aware of that (that's one subsentence), according to your logic of "credits = credits = credits", where did Qui-Gon stow those boxes? Until you find room for that, I say he was using a GFFA creditcard-equivalent.

 

Don't confuse a credit card with a bank card. One transfers money from a lender to the seller; the other provides a straight transaction between the buyer and the seller. This goes back to the distinction between "Credits will do fine," referring to a unit of currency, and "Credit will do fine," referring to a loan or a marker.

As far as the Obi-Han deal goes (though that seems to have branched off into its own topic), Obi either had the $17,000 or he didn't. If he did, then why make Luke put up the cash himself? Is Obi just a greedy bastard?

Obviously, Obi didn't have the money, and turned to Luke as a last resort.

Now, in the broader sense, this is just one of those cases where a filmmaker sacrifices logic in favor of narrative convenience. While that does move the plot along, it can also damage suspension of disbelief.

 

"I say he was using a GFFA creditcard-equivalent."

...a concept unheard of in 25 years of Star Wars lore. Who is making stuff up for the sake of their argument? Kinda funny. I've never heard of a black marketer that accepts credit cards or checks...even Watto wanted something "real", but apparently that's besides the point.

And much as you are into possibilties, there's one more "possibility" that I've saved until now - the credits came from Padme. Did you think she wouldn't have any currency on that big ship of hers?

Makes a little more sense than the "Galactic Express Card" theory that has no basis whatsoever in the films, but that's apparently not considered criteria anymore.

Then again, one shouldn't dismiss the "possibility" that Qui-gon carrying credits is simply one more detail Lucas glossed over, like many others in the Saga.

 

These forums are built on personal interpretation. If you don't want personal interpretation, leave the forums for good

Let's not go around telling people to leave the boards, OK?

 

Don't confuse a credit card with a bank card. One transfers money from a lender to the seller; the other provides a straight transaction between the buyer and the seller. This goes back to the distinction between "Credits will do fine," referring to a unit of currency, and "Credit will do fine," referring to a loan or a marker.

If one transfers money from lender to seller via credit, what do you think the amount of money is expressed in between the two parties?

As far as the Obi-Han deal goes (though that seems to have branched off into its own topic), Obi either had the $17,000 or he didn't. If he did, then why make Luke put up the cash himself? Is Obi just a greedy bastard?

Of course Obi didn't have the 17k. But my argument was that he made Han think he had - he bluffed. Ben wanted to put a big reward in front of Han, that he would only get after successful arrival on Alderaan. That way, Han wouldn't just turn them in the moment Ben gave the full reward to him. Han knew the Imperial authorities were combing out Tatooine for them .

...a concept unheard of in 25 years of Star Wars lore.

If you assume cash money is the only monetary concept in the Star Wars lore, then where was Qui-Gon stowing this huge amount of money? Oh, that's right, Lucas "glossed over it" so it wouldn't make sense. Kinda like he glossed over the creditcard concept that would make the whole thing make sense? If you can choose what he glossed over, it becomes a half full, half empty approach.

And much as you are into possibilties, there's one more "possibility" that I've saved until now - the credits came from Padme. Did you think she wouldn't have any currency on that big ship of hers?

In a Republic that hasn't faced a Galactic war in a thousand years, with a Queen's ship that has instant hyperspace-capability (the hyperdrive doesn't get shot everytime they launch from Naboo, you know), and most likely gets regular checkups, and where your money is universally accepted, why would the Queen feel any need of stowing a small fortune in cash-money on her ship at all times? She's a Queen, in normal circumstances (how common do you think TF blockades of your planet are?), she doesn't need to land on backward non-Republic planets for her spare parts (or to buy ships), because normally she doesn't need to hide her presence - a simple call to the local authorities of any Republic planet, and they'd be happy to help out a fellow-political statesperson, immediate payment non-necessary (or they'd have a diplomatic incident). Well, if you would like to assume this scenario (yet can't fathom that a creditsystem could possibly exist in this high-tech universe) so you can work around a fairly logical explanation that works, go for it.

Let's not go around telling people to leave the boards, OK?

In a topic called "Why wouldn't Watto accept Republic credits?", how do you expect an answer without "maybe's" and "possibly". The films themselves aren't clear, so everyone is deducing stuff ("there has to be docking fees", "the concept of credit is unheard of in this high-tech universe") to conclude a plausible logical answer. If you want just the facts, well, the movies are the facts. That's a fact .

 

>>>>Well in that case you are talking about a type of currency really. If you have a HMV voucher for £20 that's the same as having a £20 note apart from you can only use it in that one shop.

If you check the small print on the back of the voucher, it will say that it's cash value is 0.01p (or something similar.) And yet it clearly says "£20"- even though it isn't worth £20. It isn't even worth one pound.

The voucher itself is of no intrinsic value- it simply signifies £20 worth of pre-paid credit with HMV. Nobody else.

Try using it in WHSmith or paying it into your bank account and you'll have as much luck as Qui Gon did with his Republic Dataries on Tatooine- not because of a problem with the currency, but because it isn't real money.

 

The voucher itself is of no intrinsic value- it simply signifies £20 worth of pre-paid credit with HMV. Nobody else.

Try using it in WHSmith or paying it into your bank account and you'll have as much luck as Qui Gon did with his Republic Dataries on Tatooine- not because of a problem with the currency, but because it isn't real money.

That's why I said "that's the same as having a £20 note apart from you can only use it in that one shop ". But in HMV a £20 voucher is worth the same as a £20 note. I find it hard to believe that Republic currency is worthless on Tatooine.

 

What I don't understand is why you find it hard to believe that Republic credits are worthless outside the Republic, but have no problem with the idea that HMV vouchers are worthless outside HMV.

 

"If you assume cash money is the only monetary concept in the Star Wars lore, then where was Qui-Gon stowing this huge amount of money? Oh, that's right, Lucas "glossed over it" so it wouldn't make sense."

No, simply that Lucas doesn't get so into the details like we do. He's known for commenting on this phenomena.

"In a Republic that hasn't faced a Galactic war in a thousand years, with a Queen's ship that has instant hyperspace-capability (the hyperdrive doesn't get shot everytime they launch from Naboo, you know), and most likely gets regular checkups, and where your money is universally accepted, why would the Queen feel any need of stowing a small fortune in cash-money on her ship at all times? She's a Queen, in normal circumstances (how common do you think TF blockades of your planet are?), she doesn't need to land on backward non-Republic planets for her spare parts (or to buy ships), because normally she doesn't need to hide her presence - a simple call to the local authorities of any Republic planet, and they'd be happy to help out a fellow-political statesperson, immediate payment non-necessary (or they'd have a diplomatic incident). Well, if you would like to assume this scenario (yet can't fathom that a creditsystem could possibly exist in this high-tech universe) so you can work around a fairly logical explanation that works, go for it."

But this is your reasoning, not the film's, so it's all very moot. You've only convinced yourself that she has not need for money, only because you've already convinced yourself that Qui-gon needs to use a credit card (and you still haven't explained why thugs like Watto or the Hutts would accept credit cards - the biggest hole in your theory.

BTW, I stand corrected...apparently Lucas did come up with the concept of a credit card. My bad.

 

Ok we all know about money and so on. But here's the thing. Tatooine = not part of the Republic. Republic dataries = worthless on Tatooine. Why? Because that's not the money they use there. In fact take the money they use there and try to use it on a planet in the Republic and you would get the same line Watto used on Qui-Gon.

But to take this one step more. Take the money that they use in Russia in the USA. Here in the USA it is worthless.

Edit Tatooine is in Hutt Space. Hutt space has it's own laws rules money etc. They do what they want to do and the Republic has no say in it.

 

But this is your reasoning, not the film's, so it's all very moot.

But the same could be said of your reasoning (credits in the OT never being mentioned, the heaps of credits QG own have never been shown), so here we are.

Besides, I don't think my reasoning is that far off. The Queen doesn't have a blockade to worry about every week, and doesn't have a constantly leaking hyperdrive. It's safe to think the Royal ship is maintained well by engineers (it's not a "piece of junk" like the Falcon that gets "special modifications" of a smuggler who can't hotwire the electronics of a door, and a Wookie that slices into the electronics with his tools ), and in normal circumstances they have thousands of Republic-friendly planets to chose from to get repairs in the unlikely event the hyperdrive breaks down by itself. How customary is it to make a head of a planet, a Queen, to pay cash for her repairs? Think about it.

You've only convinced yourself that she has not need for money, only because you've already convinced yourself that Qui-gon needs to use a credit card

Somebody sees a problem, I don't, so I give my reasoning how I think things stay correct without totally by-passing logic. Does that somebody have to accept my reasoning? Nope, but some may just find it thoughtful enough, and their nagging question might become less of a nuisance. It's not meant for those who've already made the decision to see the flawed side a long time ago. Almost all "holes" in my theory have been based on assumptions as well.

Tell me, what exactly is so preposterous about this in a SW discussion?

and you still haven't explained why thugs like Watto or the Hutts would accept credit cards - the biggest hole in your theory.

There's no hole. Whether or not a credit card gets accepted doesn't solely lie in the hands of the seller (like Watto). If the credit card company, which does the actual payment, doesn't come to an agreement with the local vendors on Tatooine (which are controlled by the Hutts), there's nothing the seller can do. It's likely the credit card company doesn't want any dealings with a Hutts controlled planet; plus, the Republic visitors on Tatooine must be terribly limited in number (really, what good is there on Tatooine for a genuine citizen that doesn't get involved with the Hutts? somebody wants to build a sandcastle? or import sand because he does like it?), that Republic visitors should take cash money with them. Just like credit card companies don't deal on some parts of this planet because there's too few business (make sure you have cash overthere), or because it's too dangerous.

BTW, I stand corrected...apparently Lucas did come up with the concept of a credit card. My bad.

. Frankly, it surprises me that some of you think Luca$ doesn't know about all the possible monetary systems .

 

What I don't understand is why you find it hard to believe that Republic credits are worthless outside the Republic, but have no problem with the idea that HMV vouchers are worthless outside HMV.

Because if the Republic is as enormous and powerful as we are led to believe by the vast number of planets we see represented in the senate, the currency of the Republic must be equally wide used and strong. Therefore the idea that Republic credits are useless on a planet by the outskirts of the Republic itself, whether actually part of it or not, is ridiculous. Especially if that planet is a hive of smuggling. I'd have thought that most people on Tatooine would prefer to be paid in the currency of the Republic which they can spend anywhere in the galaxy than in the comparatively insignificant money of Tatooine which can be spent only on a single planet.

 

>>>>Because if the Republic is as enormous and powerful as we are led to believe by the vast number of planets we see represented in the senate, the currency of the Republic must be equally wide used and strong.

Yep.

>>>>Therefore the idea that Republic credits are useless on a planet by the outskirts of the Republic itself, whether actually part of it or not, is ridiculous.

Well, if you're talking about the Republic currency, then again, yes.

>>>>Especially if that planet is a hive of smuggling. I'd have thought that most people on Tatooine would prefer to be paid in the currency of the Republic which they can spend anywhere in the galaxy than in the comparatively insignificant money of Tatooine which can be spent only on a single planet.

Yep.

So why won't Watto accept them?

One explanation that makes perfect sense is that, just like the £20 HMV vouchers being used outside HMV, it's not the currency but the method of payment that is the issue.

 

Then I'll take you back to the point I made before about if it is credit, why does he not say that instead of "credits" which leads people to believe he's talking about a unit of currency.

 

Then I'll take you back to the point I made before about if it is credit, why does he not say that instead of "credits" which leads people to believe he's talking about a unit of currency.

Credits are "a list of acknowledgements of those who contributed to the creation of a film" in the dictionary (the one I use, which isn't the best ), so their definition definitely differs from something on our world. But because "credit" has a monetary meaning on this planet, it seems plausible "credits" have a similar monetary meaning. Credits may be derived from a contraction between credit-units in the GFFA - so they may be a unit of credit, rather than a unit of currency.

 

One possibility is that he says "credits" for the same reason that if I offer to pay with a credit card (singular) and they aren't accepted, I will be told that "credit cards are no good here" (plural.)

In the same way, a bank would say "we don't accept gift vouchers" (plural) if you tried to pay one into your bank account.

Compare that with a proper noun like "Mastercard" or "American Express" or "Visa"- you would use the singular- "We don't accept Mastercard", "we don't accept American Express", "we don't accept Visa."

Or a currency- "We don't accept dollars/pounds/euros/pesetas."

Or another currency- "We don't accept lira/the euro."

Or an alternative method of payment- "I don't care how many sheep you have, we don't accept them as payment."

Or it could be the fact that "Republic Credit" implies that it would be the Republic itself that would be paying.

In short, I dont think it's possible to draw any kind of conclusion about the nature of "republic credits" from the fact that Watto refers to them in the plural.


(And once again, I've gone from arguing about the Star Wars films to pointless semantics in only a few sentences...)

 

Because if the Republic is as enormous and powerful as we are led to believe by the vast number of planets we see represented in the senate, the currency of the Republic must be equally wide used and strong. Therefore the idea that Republic credits are useless on a planet by the outskirts of the Republic itself, whether actually part of it or not, is ridiculous.

No, it's not. Europe is powerful, but I won't sell you anything I own for Euros. I won't sell it for Canadian dollars, pounds, or pesos.
Why not? I can exchange it for US dollars? Sure I could, but I don't want to.

The answer is pretty simple to the question "why didn't Watto accept republic credits?": Watto just didn't want them.

 

:: slaps head ::

[Watto] "I coulda had a V-8!" [/Watto]

 

>>>The answer is pretty simple to the question "why didn't Watto accept republic credits?": Watto just didn't want them.

Unfortunately, although it's an elegantly simple answer, it doesn't explain why he doesn't consider them "real", and doesn't seem to consider them "money."

(It also doesn't explain why he didn't think Qui Gon would be able to sponsor Anakin in the pod race with them- ie. why nobody else would want them.)

 

(It also doesn't explain why he didn't think Qui Gon would be able to sponsor Anakin in the pod race with them- ie. why nobody else would want them.)

Ahh, very true. Time for more thinkin.

 

Europe is powerful, but I won't sell you anything I own for Euros.

Is Europe powerful in comparison to the Republic? I don't think you can really compare a grouping of 12 countries which use the Euro to the Republic which brings together vast numbers of planets. Besides, even though we still have the pound sterling in Britain, many shops still allow you to purchase goods in Euros.

 

Then this just brings us back to the points about a) why could Qui Gon just not exchange this currency to the Tatooine equivilant and b) why was it useless in the first place if Tatooine is supposedly a busy space port with aliens from all over the galaxy there.

Both these points have been addressed. To answer #1, Qui-Gon wanted to maintain a low profile and alerting the local bank (and by extension the Hutts, which you will recall are "gangsters") that a well-to-do offworlder is on Tatooine would not have been in their best interests. To answer #2, no doubt it's a bias agains the Republic. It may not necessarily be that Republic credits truly are worthless on Tatooine; rather, Watto doesn't trust them. Indeed, Watto seemed to have a general distrust of off-worlders in general.

However, the simplest answer is that Tatooine, not being part of the Republic, did not have the means to deal in Republic currency.